based on #12680 but some reductions: some cases were already changed by vim/vim (just according to keikaku) focus on direct mention of the user which was the major concern.
I change my opinion. This is terrible to read for me. Especially when there often were used things like “s/he”. This looks like pushing some ideology, not making better readable text.
The ideology called Modern English, I guess. “They” is now the most widely accepted gender neutral pronoun in English, and most people (me included) think it sounds the most natural.
But isn’t they a plural form? How is that correct and better to use than using something s/he or dear reader? Can you give an example? Also isn’t singular form of they, it? How does saying “Hey boy!” or “Hey girl!” sounds worse than saying … “Hey they!”…? That’s how you think that sentence should look like?
Also u said modern english… I read articles written every day but never seen such use. Maybe when talking about group of people, then yes. Like when article is about a company or something.
With the most respect possible, can I ask if English is your first language?
I’ve noticed that people who speak English as a first language seem to have less issue with the they/them in singular, than those who have learned the language later. A thing I assume is due to how it is learned.
To me, if I say to someone, “I was looking for Bob, have you seen them?” I mean have you seen Bob, in the singular form. If I were to say “Alice is looking a little sick, aren’t they?” No one would think I was discussing a group of Alice’s. The context gives the meaning. Singular they has been in use for a very long time.
I think though that people learning the language as a second language, (Or however many layers deep into language learning they may be) are taught that it is a plural thing, and only used for that. It creates a jarring thing in the mind when you’re certain of your skill in a language and then suddenly the words go on an alternative adventure.
I might be way off base though. I’m up for being educated.
With that amount of respect, I will as kindly try to reply. It is not. I’m happy that you asked that, as I assume (hope) the answer wasn’t obvious :)
When you brught up these sentences they sound well, so I guess I had to hear/see them before but never really noticed.
When it comes to learning, most of my “skill” in english is taken from games, films and internet. If you had played game Tibia then you probably know that it is mmorpg, and besides talking to players you also have to type to talk with NPCs. Because of that I almost never payed any attention at my english classes (that’s why I often feel uncertain about grammar and some words, but anyway I never had any problems with passing even advenced versions of exams). Even so, I’m quite sure that teacher or book or some exercise never really mentioned or allowed such usage of word “they”. Also in my language we really often use male/female forms in daily use. Even word for a group of people, if it is mixed, is the same as plural form for just men, so context or being able to see the group tells if it is just men or both.
Hm, do you find these changes made in this pull request done well? Are they easy for you to read?
My first and only language is English, so I never considered how other languages use gender as compared to my own.
Honestly, I find the s/he or the s/he/them sort of clunky. they/them feels a lot more elegant from my perspective, but I spend a LOT of time in communities that are openly non binary or at least supportive of that, so I don’t know if it’s language related or learned from my experiences.
So to answer your question, I think the language in the docs now is much easier to understand, and looks better than it did before.
Well… I think recently that people no matter the context attach vaginas and balls to things. Because of how mine language works words usually have endings in female or male form. Thing is… I think context is important. It is like with scissors (this word works the same in my language). The word is ending in plural form, but when you ask someone for scissors you won’t get a whole pack. Word nurse in my language isn’t specifcally ending in female form, but when you ask for one it doesn’t mean you want a woman come to you, unless you explicitly say that you prefer nurse to be a woman for some reason. It is that there is no form which addresses both so you will use form that is most likely, and if a man comes to you there is no shame in that.
I guess maybe world has changed and I stayed the same in that way, or I am thinking in my language while reading english… I’m really not into these gender/sexuality related things so maybe this is also the reason. Maybe in some groups language had already evolved a bit?
Anyway: If it gets information through then it works. Thanks for reply :)
Btw. you should try to learn another language! It is really cool when you can communicate with more people, and it is a nice exercise for brain :)
I change my opinion. This is terrible to read for me. Especially when there often were used things like “s/he”. This looks like pushing some ideology, not making better readable text.
The ideology called Modern English, I guess. “They” is now the most widely accepted gender neutral pronoun in English, and most people (me included) think it sounds the most natural.
But isn’t they a plural form? How is that correct and better to use than using something s/he or dear reader? Can you give an example? Also isn’t singular form of they, it? How does saying “Hey boy!” or “Hey girl!” sounds worse than saying … “Hey they!”…? That’s how you think that sentence should look like?
Also u said modern english… I read articles written every day but never seen such use. Maybe when talking about group of people, then yes. Like when article is about a company or something.
With the most respect possible, can I ask if English is your first language? I’ve noticed that people who speak English as a first language seem to have less issue with the they/them in singular, than those who have learned the language later. A thing I assume is due to how it is learned. To me, if I say to someone, “I was looking for Bob, have you seen them?” I mean have you seen Bob, in the singular form. If I were to say “Alice is looking a little sick, aren’t they?” No one would think I was discussing a group of Alice’s. The context gives the meaning. Singular they has been in use for a very long time. I think though that people learning the language as a second language, (Or however many layers deep into language learning they may be) are taught that it is a plural thing, and only used for that. It creates a jarring thing in the mind when you’re certain of your skill in a language and then suddenly the words go on an alternative adventure.
I might be way off base though. I’m up for being educated.
With that amount of respect, I will as kindly try to reply. It is not. I’m happy that you asked that, as I assume (hope) the answer wasn’t obvious :)
When you brught up these sentences they sound well, so I guess I had to hear/see them before but never really noticed.
When it comes to learning, most of my “skill” in english is taken from games, films and internet. If you had played game Tibia then you probably know that it is mmorpg, and besides talking to players you also have to type to talk with NPCs. Because of that I almost never payed any attention at my english classes (that’s why I often feel uncertain about grammar and some words, but anyway I never had any problems with passing even advenced versions of exams). Even so, I’m quite sure that teacher or book or some exercise never really mentioned or allowed such usage of word “they”. Also in my language we really often use male/female forms in daily use. Even word for a group of people, if it is mixed, is the same as plural form for just men, so context or being able to see the group tells if it is just men or both.
Hm, do you find these changes made in this pull request done well? Are they easy for you to read?
My first and only language is English, so I never considered how other languages use gender as compared to my own. Honestly, I find the s/he or the s/he/them sort of clunky. they/them feels a lot more elegant from my perspective, but I spend a LOT of time in communities that are openly non binary or at least supportive of that, so I don’t know if it’s language related or learned from my experiences. So to answer your question, I think the language in the docs now is much easier to understand, and looks better than it did before.
Well… I think recently that people no matter the context attach vaginas and balls to things. Because of how mine language works words usually have endings in female or male form. Thing is… I think context is important. It is like with scissors (this word works the same in my language). The word is ending in plural form, but when you ask someone for scissors you won’t get a whole pack. Word nurse in my language isn’t specifcally ending in female form, but when you ask for one it doesn’t mean you want a woman come to you, unless you explicitly say that you prefer nurse to be a woman for some reason. It is that there is no form which addresses both so you will use form that is most likely, and if a man comes to you there is no shame in that.
I guess maybe world has changed and I stayed the same in that way, or I am thinking in my language while reading english… I’m really not into these gender/sexuality related things so maybe this is also the reason. Maybe in some groups language had already evolved a bit?
Anyway: If it gets information through then it works. Thanks for reply :)
Btw. you should try to learn another language! It is really cool when you can communicate with more people, and it is a nice exercise for brain :)
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What’s the ideology that’s being pushed?
Read that again. I don’t know.
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