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Cake day: Jul 26, 2020

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If a cafe wants to enforce a “no phones” rule, they can do so relatively effectively. If a website wants to enforce a “no robots” rule (especially if they also want to not require any login to view the content on the site) they can ultimately only pretend to be able to do that effectively.

But you’re again conflating the issue of consent and enforcement. There are things we are able to do but we know to ask first before we do them. The fact that something is possible doesn’t mean that it’s allowed. The fact that something is not easy to enforce against does not make it okay to do it anyway.

What about public parks? Is it okay to walk around you while you’re having a conversation and record you, and then post that conversation on-line? Is it okay to use directional microphones to record you in such a setting? Doesn’t the whole recording-in-the-park thing from the Conversation give you the creeps?

Are you saying that the fact that something is difficult to enforce against makes it okay to do, even if the person you do this to does not want it done?


But unlisted toots are still technically public. If you scrape my profile, you will get them. And the point is: the fact that they are public in the technical sense does not mean I consented to them being scraped etc.

Just as wearing a short skirt is not blanket consent to sexual advances.


You technically can, and if you get caught the cafe can (and should, imo) kick you out for doing so.

Right, so we agree here. But you did not respond to the second question: are cafés public or private spaces?

I’m a big proponent of enforcing privacy in online and offline spaces with technology, policy, and social norms. I’m also opposed to magical thinking. Telling people that they can semi-publish, to have some of the benefits of publishing without some of the consequences, is misleading to the point of being dishonest.

Nobody is saying that. Nowhere in the thread I linked is that being said. Nowhere in my comments did I say that. It’s not about telling people they can or cannot “semi-publish”, it’s about telling people creating systems and products that they need to ask these people for permission to do certain things.

Or in other words: it’s not about telling café patrons they can or can’t have perfectly private conversations in the café, it’s about telling anyone who might want to potentially record conversations in that café “you have to ask and receive permission for this first”. That’s a pretty crucial difference.


Sure, I think we basically agree.

There are things that are impossible without JS, and there are things that are possible without it but JS is still the better choice for implementing them — as long as it’s not the bloated mess, pulling random libraries from a dozen third party services, that we know and “love” from a lot of websites. And as long as there is graceful degradation built-in.


Are cafés public, or private spaces? Can I just sit at the table next to yours and stream and record your conversation with your friends?


Violating the distinction between content and representation in the form of a few hidden radioboxes or checkboxes to be able to make a JS-less menu strikes me as a reasonable trade-off in a lot of cases.

Pretty advanced UIs things can be done using just CSS. For example, this little tidbit of mine. It’s not mobile-optimized, but that’s beside the point — the point is a complex interface done without a line of JS. Making it mobile-optimized is possible too, of course.


I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith. In fact, reading your comment again, I am pretty sure you are arguing in bad faith. And I have better things to do than engaging with that.

If anyone wants to engage in an honest conversation, those who follow me on fedi or have seen my comments around here know I’m totally game for that. But “and yet you engage in society! curious!”-level discussion is not worth anyone’s time, frankly. 🙂


Great job at working hard to miss the point entirely. 🤷‍♀️



I am one of those technology educators, and today I would still warn people that “Internet does not forget”, and that they need to be careful what they put out there.

That doesn’t mean we should not demand explanation from people who make it so, and that we should not demand them to ask for consent and respect our refusal to give it. I really appreciate how fedi culturally puts this front-and-center. I hope it continues to do so, and that this way of thinking spreads farther!

I agree that consent should not be a controversial topic. Regardless of how much it inconveniences techbros trying to “disrupt” yet another area of human endeavor.


I think search engines indexing plain old websites (blogs etc) are an importantly different case.

The nature of the medium in blogs/news websites/etc is way more public and way less intimate (in general…) than social media. Social media blur the line between private and public conversations, for better or worse.

Social media is like having a conversation in a public cafe; websites/blogs is more like publishing a newspaper or standing on the corner of a street shouting your message at strangers.

Making a public archive of newspapers or recording a person shouting at strangers is one thing. Recording semi-private conversations in a cafe is a whole different thing. Does that make sense?



It has its place, but if it can be avoided, I believe it should. Basically, if something can be implemented using just HTML/CSS, it’s probably better to do it that way.

Fun fact, I have a large JS-based project, because what the project aims to do is impossible without JS. But the website itself is almost completely JS-free, apart from the demos (which necessarily need to use the JS-based project itself).


It loads immediately (just flat HTML/CSS/image/font files), it does not slow down user experience in the browser, it also signals very clearly there are not weird third-party JS scripts slurping the data for whatever godawful reason.

Additionally, one can build pretty nice, responsive, fast UIs with just HTML and CSS, and browser developers spent decades optimizing their rendering engines for that. JavaScript components on the front-end tend to be buggy, slow, and just all-around shitty UI/UX.


Or exposure to harassment, including offline. Or context collapse. Or…

In the end, adding search would change the space dramatically, especially any privacy-related expectations. And there are about 2mln people who are using fedi with current set of expectations. There are hundreds of thousands who had been using it with this set of expectations for years. Waltzing in and bulldozing these expectations is just not a good idea.

So yeah, don’t do search on fedi unless you do some deep research about consent.


I don’t have to defend my right to decide how stuff I put out there can be used. Whoever wants to scrape my toots has to explain why they want to do so, and get my consent first.

And “well it’s publicly available so it’s fair game” is not enough of an argument. Just as “she was wearing a short skirt” is not consent to sexual advances.


Ah I might have misunderstood, sorry.


Fediverse is like e-mail Therefore it needs a search engine

What.


The bigger issue is consent. People on fediverse feel very strongly about consent, and search engines tend to just ignore it. Better do some serious research into consent to search on fedi before embarking on designing a search engine for fedi.


Apparently Buffer is pretty big in "social media professionals" circles.
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cross-posted from: https://szmer.info/post/149799 > > In the latest illustration of our marvelous new decentralized, resilient blockchain future, one single Solana node apparently was able to take down the entire Solana network. Solana outages are nothing new, and tend to end (as this one did) with Solana issuing instructions to the people who run their validators, asking them all to turn them off and on again. > > > > A validator operator reported that "It appears a misconfigured node caused an unrecoverable partition in the network." It's a bit startling that, in a supposedly decentralized network, one single node can bring the entire network offline.
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cross-posted from: https://szmer.info/post/138077 > > In the early hours of September 15, Ethereum completed "The Merge – the long-awaited transition from its original proof-of-work consensus mechanism to proof-of-stake. > > > > Later that day, SEC Chairman Gary Gensler pointed to the staking mechanism as a signal that an asset might be a security as determined by the [Howey test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_v._W._J._Howey_Co.). > > 🍿
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I ran the worlds largest DDoS-for-Hire empire and CloudFlare helped
> CloudFlare is a fire department that prides itself on putting out fires at any house regardless of the individual that lives there, what they forget to mention is they are actively lighting these fires and making money by putting them out!
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CloudFlare is dropping KiwiFarms
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> Vladimir Putin believes the Westphalian nation-state model is obsolete, and is ushering in his radical idea of a replacement, based on the idea of the "Noosphere" first popularized by 20th c. Russian "cosmist" Vladimir Vernadsky. > Vernadsky said "to expect ruthless struggles, shocks and tremors, and even an apocalypse" as part of the transition from Biosphere (Bio=life) to Noosphere (Noos=mind). Putin seems to have latched onto this as a mystic prophecy.
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cross-posted from: https://community.nicfab.it/post/10748 > France’s data protection watchdog CNIL is investigating a whistleblower’s claims that Twitter made “egregious” misrepresentations to international regulators about its data security measures, according to a [report in POLITICO](https://www.politico.eu/article/twitter-data-security-french-data-regulator-investigates-fraud-allegations/). > > “The CNIL is currently studying the complaint filed to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, the Federal Trade Commission and the US Department of Justice,” the French agency said in a statement Wednesday. “If the accusations are correct, the CNIL could take action leading to legal proceedings or a sanction, if it’s clear there were breaches.”
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Turns out secondary centralization driven by economies of scale is a thing and leads to shitty power dynamics. Who woulda thunk it? 🤔
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HackerNoon's ["Noonie" awards website](https://noonies.tech/) is truly a marvel. First, [the content](https://octodon.social/@jalefkowit/108834489545757953). Categories like ["Hackernoon Contributor of the Year - Elon Musk"](https://octodon.social/@jalefkowit/108834737635199742), pearls of knowledge like ["Innovation is not re-inventing the wheel. It is creating a better wheel."](https://octodon.social/@jalefkowit/108834553042584981). Calling CSS ["Cascading Sheet Styles"](https://octodon.social/@jalefkowit/108834834258754666). And a quote about engineers — from Scott Adams, no less! — [with incorrectly encoded quotation marks and apostrophes](https://octodon.social/@jalefkowit/108834840832817866). But more interestingly, the site [seems to leak e-mail addresses of all people who already voted](https://social.coop/@jonny/108835379495867720) (currently over 120 addresses). All the while pushing "web3" by proudly stating: > Web3 in a nutshell is the advocacy of your digital rights. I'm sure your privacy is very important to them.
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> The web is a mess, bloated with data-gathering trackers, predatory UX, massive resource loads, and it is absorbing everything it touches. The Small Internet is a counter-cultural movement to wrangle things back under control via minimalism, hands-on participation, and good old fashioned conversation. At its heart are technologies like the venerable Gopher protocol or the new Gemini protocol offering a refuge and a place to dream of a better future. > > Join me and be reintroduced to Gopher in 2021 and learn what this old friend has to offer us in a world full of web services and advertising bombardment. We will also explore the new Gemini protocol and how it differs from Gopher and HTTP. > > We will explore the protocols themselves, their history, and what the modern ecosystems are like. I will briefly review the technical details of implementing servers or clients of your own, and how to author content as a user. Discussion will cover limitations, grey-areas, and trade-offs in exchange for speed and simplicity. > > Through these alternative protocols we'll see the small internet in action.
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/346923 > Forge Federation Needs Your Help 🤗 > > 🚀 Join the [forge federation](https://matrix.to/#/#general-forgefed:matrix.batsense.net) matrix chatroom, or the (less active) [gitea federation](https://matrix.to/#/#gitea-federation-chat:matrix.org) room. ----- Just to add to this, I firmly believe that forge federation is the crucial missing piece that would make moving away from repository gatekeepers like Microsoft Github viable for a lot of projects. Good to see work being done on it.
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> The contract also provides, provocatively, “Historical geo tracking data,” though it’s unclear what exactly this data consists of or from where it’s sourced. An email released through the FOIA request shows that Coinbase didn’t require ICE to agree to an End User License Agreement, standard legalese that imposes limits on what a customer can do with software. Amazing. So not just helping with "blockchain analytics", but outright selling out their users' location data to ICE. 🤣
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> The prolonged slump in Bitcoin is making it more difficult for some miners to repay the up to $4 billion in loans they have backed by their equipment, posing a potential risk to major crypto lenders. > > A growing number of loans are now underwater, according to analysts, as many of the mining rigs lenders accepted as collateral have now halved in value along with the price of the world’s largest digital token. Investment funds were giving large crypto-miners loans to by specialized crypto-mining equipment backed by that same specialized crypto-mining equipment, which happens to lose value exactly when cryptocurrencies themselves lose value. 🍿 🍿 🍿
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