China’s EV revolution showcases the power that state actors have when an industry is a matter of national security.
China has marginal domestic O&G reserves, so moving off of O&G is incredibly important for Chinese interests.
And since the oil and gas companies in China are nationalized, they will follow along with the government’s plans rather than obstruct or bribe their way as with for-profit private oil and gas companies in many western countries.
Woah hold the phone, you’re telling me there’s a way to build society OTHER than by explicitly rewarding greed and exploitation‽
It is a similar story in Saudi Arabia and many Arab countries. The oil and gas is nationally owned, and the revenues are being used to finance a massive welfare state as well as the transition away from fossil fuels.
I think saudi Arabia moving away from fossil fuels isnt really true considering their (ODSP) is a plan to hook the 3rd world on said fossil fuels.
Developing countries need cheap energy
But if we were really serious about sustainability, wouldnt it be better to not get more of the world hooked and fossil fuels in that way.
Which is not me saying everyone should be driving EVs, because fuck cars.
Oil isn’t just used for cars. A lot of countries use diesel trains on routes where electrification isn’t feasible for various reasons. Here’s a modern diesel train https://youtu.be/tFoljwX6o90
So, solar and wind? Both cheaper than fossil fuels at this point.
Then no one will buy the oil Saudi Arabia is selling if that’s true
It’s worth noting that this is not being done for environmental reasons (more half of all coal pollution comes from China), but for strategic reasons as China has limited access to oil near it’s borders.
I mean, that’s a pretty good reason. I’m not too concerned why they do a good thing, as long as it’s done.
Not to mention that they are the world’s biggest manufacturing power, so whatever they make for themselves will likely also benefit the rest of the world.
If they really wanna make me pro China, make ME energy independent!
Cheap solar panels Cheap batteries Cheap ebikes Cheap ecars
That would cover half my yearly expenses!!
Electric cars aren’t a “good thing” though.
You might get up votes if you accompanied a controversial opinion with a reasoned argument. However, making only broad, unsubstantiated statements is a waste of bandwidth and everyone’s time.
You might get up votes if you accompanied a controversial opinion with a reasoned argument.
Ultimately I agree that they should include the argument, but adding a reasoned argument has very little affect on the use of the vote buttons as “agree/disagree.”
China is also the world leader in sustainable public transportation solutions
They’re a “better than ICE cars” thing. I’ll take whatever improvements I can get
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Why not? This has been researched many times, and the results are consistently that it is a good thing already, and getting better, in regards to overall co2 produced
They’re also far more efficient than fuel cell too
An EV running on a coal fired grid still has less emissions that a prius. Facts dont care about your feelings.
A Prius will definitely pollute less than the typical SUV electric cars on a coal grid.
Cause:
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Efficiency of coal power plant and all losses are as bad as ICE cars. The EVs do thermal->mechanical->electrical->grid->battery->wheels and if you count them all up, is not better than an EV
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Prius is designed for low drag unlike an SUV
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Prius had regenerative braking like an EV
But just the numbers:
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Prius is rated at 94g/kg
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Coal 950g/kwh
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Volvo c40 0.2kwh/km or 190g/km even without losses
I took Volvo cause they published a report with a good compare ev and ICE https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/market-assets/intl/applications/dotcom/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf
Even with the current EU energy mix, it takes 77’000 km to be better than ICE, so arguably better. On coal electricity, they are worse. And this is comparing equally sized cars, a Prius will do better.
Sorry sorry. Where are you getting the “all losses are equivalent to ice engine inefficiency”?
I don’t expect you to be an ME/EE, but there’s a lot of variables in that calculation, I’d just like to clarify for everyone here what you mean.
I put very minimal calculation which at least puts it around the same order and linked a report by Volvo where they try to count the whole cycle of a car with the emissions of the production and transport of used parts and fuels.
On current electricity mix, an electric car is only slightly better on a CO2 emissions. With only renewables, it can be 2x better.
But the statement that in China it’s at least better than a Prius is just wrong. Until renewables take a serious share of the grid, a smaller well engineered hybrid is not worse.
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Is it worth mentioning? Why?
Just wanted to add some perspective. There’s a narrative lately that China is a champion of the green movement, which is absurd
It’s no less absurd than the opposite narrative, that China is some kind of climate villain.
The reality is China is on the right track, but not there yet. I’m somewhat optimistic.
Pretty reasonable narrative tbh. China’s CO2 emmissions plateleued last month and have even started to fall, and they’re targeting zero emissions by 2060. They’ve also started spearheading cleaner energy this month with the first 4th gen nuclear reactor.
And of course the news in this post.
What a ridiculous distinction. Do you really think this narrative difference in motivation is noteworthy? What is scarcity if not an environmental consideration? What is lack of sustainability if not an environmental consideration?
It’s being done because it leads to a sustainable equilibrium of their social system. Whether that meets your standards of rhetorical “intentionality” to meet the criteria for “environmentalism” is meaningless.
Car engines are immensely inefficient and car charging is a load that’s easy to load-balance for renewables (dynamic pricing see: Tesla)
Yup! EVs and renewables are broadly good things. Just wanted to give some added perspective :)
Great argument for a green transition in many places, such as Europe, India and Japan. Dependence on fossil fuels is a big weakness.
Also worth mentioning that it’s not just cars, but public transit and city planning.
Paywalled.
But at what cost?
As a Saudi I’m happy with this development. The future of cars is electric.
“Every car you start driving with electricity, you’re not driving with oil,” said Robert Brecha, a professor of sustainability at the University of Dayton in Ohio
The journalist has to have a personal grudge against him. That d’oh quotation makes him seem dumber than my dog.
Where are the batteries coming from?
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