Or maybe they will launch Win 12 with optional TPM support.
Imho making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business, many people are still on Win 10 with no intention to switch, since their motheboard does not support TPM and do not want to upgrade PC / waste PCI-E slot on TPM extension.
After using Windows for 30+ years now (since Windows 1), this is one of the straws finally pushing me into Linux.
I’m running 10, but without a TPM, can’t go to 11. So sad. Not.
Honestly 7 was the last decent OS they made. In my opinion the good OS’s were NT4 (game changer), 2000, XP, 7. They can keep the rest.
You can use the Rufus USB flashing tool with the Windows 11 iso and it will remove the TPM requirement and others.
Rufus is the shit, love Rufus.
It’s pretty brilliant!
This breaks your ability to get security updates on win11 though right?
Windows Update gets turned off yes.
But you wait say 6 months and then it back on, Do all updates and then run the playbook again (after it’s been hopefully updated)
Don’t do this. Running unpatched software is a recipe for disaster.
Not always. Windows has a built in delay function. And business often hold back while testing is done.
Waiting 6 months is fine to let improvements come out and fix any bugs previous updates might have introduced.
If something major comes out that needs patching immediately, since we’re all tech heads and have our nose in the news constantly, then you find out about it and update there and then. No biggy.
6 months no patches?
Yeah… Sounds like a great idea that all non-tech users should be using /s
Oh that’s neat. Thanks!
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All the current major distros of linux require TPM.
TPM prevents users from downloading random kinder eggs that install ransomware. Any business that disables TPM is crazy.
Why do you say a TPM prevents users from running malicious software? As far as I know that’s not really what they’re used for.
I’d like to see how you disable tpm on 2010s thinkpad where tpm don’t even exist
If I was not using my PC for gaming also, I would probably say fuck them and be on Linux too. But gaming on Linux is cancer.
But gaming on Linux is cancer.
Your information is outdated
Gaming on Windows just works, gaming on Linux can work but might be problematic with some hardware (as is the case with OP based on another comment they made), let’s not pretend it’s as easy.
Having recently switched myself I actually have experienced less issues and better game performance from Linux than I did on Windows, at least with the games I play and the hardware I have.
Definitely not what I would call cancer
“at least with the games I play”
As mentioned in a recent article that was shared around here, for the games that work on Linux performance on average is 17% better, for the games that don’t work on Linux, performance is infinitely better on Windows 😛
For sure, but these days the main offenders are online multiplayer games with restrictive anti-cheats.
I would go so far as to say if those specific types of games are not your thing you aren’t likely to experience any issues gaming on Linux.
I’m sure there are exceptions, but every time I think “oh this game for sure won’t work” I have eaten my words.
And it’s like a night and day difference from the last time I tried to do this about a year and a half ago. The progress I’ve seen is almost more impressive than the performance gains. 🤷
But if you switch to Linux for gaming, and the game you want to play doesn’t work… Well it’s not like you can trade that 17% performance improvement in to get the game to function.
That’s a huge roadblock if you don’t know what games won’t work.
Some of the games I play can’t be played on Linux because of anti-cheat. One even uses a fucking kernel-mode driver on windows so it sure as hell ain’t working on linux
you got a lot of hate because Lemmy tends to be militantly pro-Linux, (it sort of goes hand-in-hand with the FOSS ideas that Lemmy is built on) but every Linux user who built their own rig has wanted to throw their computer out the fucking window while trying to get nvidia drivers to work.
Linux gamers point to the Steam Deck as the example that gaming on Linux isn’t awful… The Steam Deck is an amazing advancement, but it’s essentially just a console like the Xbox or PlayStation; It’s using a known list of hardware, with pre-installed and pre-tested drivers. As far as play-testing and QA is concerned, that’s as close as you can get to having a controlled environment. For people who build their own computers, drivers on Linux are still a fucking nightmare. You still occasionally have to fight with them just to get modern games working.
It’s better than it used to be, for sure. But it’s nowhere near as easy as many people want to claim. Especially when compared to Windows, where it usually is just plug and play. Microsoft can suck a chode for their invasive and monopolistic practices, but those same practices are also what led to gaming being so fucking easy on Windows. You buy the game, you install the game, and the game boots up first try. Because companies test for Windows. They know what to expect from Windows. They know how hardware will perform on Windows, and what the potential pitfalls will be. None of that is true for Linux, where the OS varies just as much as the user’s hardware.
I do genuinely believe it will continue to get better. But people who go “lol gaming on Linux is ezpz” aren’t doing Linux any favors. Because if someone hears that, tries it, and finds out it isn’t easy? They’ll be much more inclined to just go “fuck it, I tried and it didn’t work so it must not be for me” and default back to Windows.
My AMD desktop provides an almost identical user experience to the deck, just with more power. The problem isn’t Linux, it’s Nvidia not making a driver that actually works. Nvidia has always been hostile to gaming on Linux, desktop Linux users in general.
You can install any OS on the deck, it’s commodity hardware shoved into a handheld. Not a locked down device like a console.
I’ve built all my desktops and none of them ran Linux poorly, played lots of games. I’ve been gaming on Linux since my only option was unreal tournament.
Anti cheat is a show stopper for many Linux games though, if you are big into multiplayer games you might be disappointed to find out your favorite game blocks Linux users because reasons. Games outside of steam will require more work to get running, because steam does the heavy lifting for you.
There are also other edge cases where it doesn’t work great, like with CAD software. But Nvidia making garbage tier drivers has done more harm to the perception of Linux gaming than everything else combined.
One thing that people seem to dismiss, running windows games on Linux is fuckin magic. It’s not normal for an OS to be able to run another systems applications.
You are right with what you are saying, but for an average user it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is that their hardware and the OS don’t play nice together.
If they have Nvidia and it works perfectly out of the box on Windows, but not on Linux, it really doesn’t matter whether it’s the fault of Linux or Nvidia.
And sure, if you are buying a new device to run Linux on it, you can use that info to buy an ATI card that works better.
But more often than not people are switching from Windows to Linux on their existing hardware. Mostly because something doesn’t work (e.g. receiving updates on Win10 past 2024), and they’d rather switch OS than buy a new PC.
My problem is people saying Linux isn’t ready because Nvidia provides a terrible experience, and they are basing that opinion on their personal experience with Nvidias gpu drivers. Using any other gpu provides an experience so close to the deck that it’s not even a talking point.
No OS is perfect, Linux has problems, but Nvidia makes people think it’s a mess.
I think, there is another underlying problem, and that is that many Linux users are overly defensive about their OS.
If Windows frequently bluescreens due to a driver, people also say that Windows sucks. But I’ve never seen a single instance where then a more experienced Windows user says “You are wrong, Windows is great, it’s just the manufacturer of the hardware who is at fault.”
To an average user, there is no difference between OS, drivers or even user space software.
And, tbh, if the system doesn’t run correctly (no matter which part of it) nobody really cares who is at fault. Because it’s not about putting blame on someone, but rather about the user wanting to do something and it doesn’t work.
For a bad comparison: Imagine you got a new car and directly after the warranty expired, the motor breaks down and needs to be replaced.
Would you then say “The car is ok, it’s just the supplier of the sealing rings of the piston who sucks”?
I’d rather say, “This car sucks”.
I keep seeing these comments about Nvidia making shit fall apart for Linux, but I’ve been going strong for several years with Nvidia GPUs without problems. I also didn’t have any issues with AMD either mind you, but I have swapped GPU’s three times in this system: from Nvidia to AMD and back to Nvidia. I must have some great luck as I doubt these commenters are lying.
Totally agreed. It was a chore setting up gpu switching in my Nvidia + AMD igpu laptop. There were times where a gold rated game didn’t work or was basically unplayable for me (Teardown, but it’s working now). Haven’t found a just werks autohotkey script (needed for Danganronpa, played on Win instead bc of it). Bluetooth connectivity has it’s quirks, etc. These small things add up, so yeah Linux still needs a lot of ironing for me to recommend it beyond web browsing.
In my personal experience, drivers and basically everything where more straight forward (I’m on an Nvidia card). Just boot and run with significantly better performance than windows. On my crappy laptop with only integrated GPU same thing. Maybe because I don’t play any anti cheat games. Also in the indie sector there is a bit more effort on proton compatibility, basically all I have tried just work.
Saying gaming on Linux is caner is “hate”? Lol
Come on. Go look at forums, communities, etc and see how much effort people have to put in to Linux at times just to get sound working properly, and that’s before a game is even loaded.
Just look at comments here, with problems you never see on windows.
Linux still has these issues, though they’ve gotten tremendously better.
When’s the last time you loaded windows and sound didn’t work out of the gate?
Windows just works, that’s what OP is on about. He wants to play games, not play “what isn’t working in my OS now?”.
This is also part of what drives the console market - people just want to play their game.
The Linux community can be blind about these barriers for tee average user. Yea, you can lookup and learn commands, where stuff goes, etc. But by god is that a pain in the ass. You’ve gotta be sufficiently motivated about what your doing to want to get through that. And I say this as someone who had Unix classes a long time ago.
I think you misread my comment? Or I’m misreading yours. I agree with you lol
When’s the last time you loaded windows and sound didn’t work out of the gate?
I had trouble getting Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon Zero Dawn, and BG3 to open at all on Windows at various times.
All of them work great for me on Linux.
I think 99% of my issues with Windows were due to Windows Updates messing with my drivers but the point is I don’t have those problems on Linux. You never hear about Linux forcing updates that break your system.
Just last week I had to do an emergency unbrick on my linux server because of updates…
Ah but the difference is that Linux doesn’t force you to install those updates.
Drivers aren’t really an issue anymore either…
As long as you choose AMD. If you look at the Steam Hardware Survey, Linux users have very different purchasing patterns.
Hybrid gpu laptops: I’m about to ruin this man’s whole career
I have a dual GPU laptop 🤷
I guess your experience must be universal and everyone who has issues must be really dumb. Is that how you see the world?
Ahm, you okay buddy?
I have a dual GPU laptop with an AMD base and an Nvidia GPU.
Hasn’t been a problem at all (though it certainly was when I tried a year and a half ago)
Even more fun when you need to do machine learning (for which linux is often the best or only option). Getting nvidia drivers to play nice is hard enough, try adding CUDA.
The irony of that is… it was easier to get it working in Windows.
Do you only play Valorant and Rainbow 6 Siege? Most of my games work now by simply clicking Play, which wasn’t the case even 2 years ago.
There’s some bug between KDE, my Nvidia GPU, Prime, Proton and DXVK that causes my whole system to freeze (can’t even switch to console) if I try to play games with the GPU selection set to “on-demand”.
If I completely disable the Intel GPU, it runs fine, but that means I basically can’t use the laptop without a charger (because the battery drains so fast), unless I switch the GPU setting (requires a reboot) every time I want to game.
Totally fair about the laptop issues. I know sound, wifi, touchpads, fingerprint unlocks aren’t always fully compatible, and prime switcher can put up a fuss (though I remember using an alternative back in the day). I guess I’m just astounded from where I started (looking through WineHQ and GamingOnLinux forums, trying the scripts and crossing my fingers) to now, where my rig is beefy enough that a small performance hit that Proton could cause isn’t noticeable at all.
Thinking about it again, Gaming On Linux is cancerous, in the sense that it’s grown exponentially, and thanks to Valve’s support with Proton and the Steam Deck, the OS once was an afterthought for gaming has “metastasized” itself into relevancy.
Sure, it’s much better than it has been a few years ago.
But it’s still not nearly at the point where I would blindly recommend it to non-technical people and call it easy. There’s still a way to go.
On the other hand I have no problem recommending Linux to the typical “I only use an OS to run a browser” user. That wasn’t the case 5 or 10 years ago.
Anyone gonna tell him about the Steam Deck?
Dude just wants Microsoft-sempai to notice him. I don’t think reason or facts are very useful
Lol.
Just look at the comments here about gaming problems on Linux.
Seriously - you never see these problems on windows these days.
“We’ll, just buy different hardware” is one answer. Imagine saying that to someone who has an extant gaming setup running windows.
You mean OP whose hardware will be obsolete for running up to date Windows and it’s on the bargaining stage of grief?
I use Linux for gaming. I have no problems nor I’ve found a game I can’t play. I know there are, just that no game I wanted to play had idea issues, and I don’t even check before buying them anymore. And I’m supposed to have bad hardware for Linux, having had Nvidia all my life.
Most comments I’ve seen are from people who haven’t tried, just parrot what others parroted.
I recall setting up wine for the original World of Warcraft. That was such a pain to do. Performance was great.
Running games on Linux now is easier than I ever could imagine. Especially with steam and the other launchers added such as Lutris.
Been rocking the game Grounded on my steam deck while my kids are on their windows machines. And it has great performance even output to 1080p monitor.
I agree it seems like most the comments are from people who haven’t even attempted to run games on it. Or maybe there attempt was just to double clicked the setup.exe and it didn’t work like windows and they threw their arms up and walked away.
Feels like ages ago interacting directly with wine. Wine tricks, Play on Linux, Crossover, Lutris, Bottles and Steam with Proton. Each one better and better and simpler than the previous.
And let’s not forget Nvidia drivers. For the past 3 years at least they are just baked into the the Distros I use, even less work to make them work than Windows.
Not everyone wants to buy separate hardware for gaming, OP mentioned in another comment that Linux doesn’t play well with their laptop if they want to play games on it. It’s funny to see some of the Linux crowd being unable to admit that it just isn’t as plug and play as running Windows… Especially with an Nvidia GPU.
Eh? I wasn’t suggesting they buy separate hardware. I was just responding to the comment about Linux being cancer for gaming. The Steam Deck is literally proof that the OS is completely viable for gaming. I’ve been gaming just fine on my desktop with an Nvidia 3090. Linux really isn’t as bad as you think it is. It’s funny how there’s a bunch of Windows users that refuse to believe that gaming can happen on another OS. Just sounds close minded tbh.
Not so much anymore, it’s apparently improved significantly and getting better all the time. Check out linux_gaming. A lot of avid proponents there given the shitshow M$FT has made of Windows.
I have 300+ games in my Steam library, some of them with Linux builds, just a few. The rest work with Proton. I did not find a game yet that didn’t work on Linux…
Fortnite.
Well, it works until the server kicks you off.
No great loss there.
It’s so easy to run on Linux now. Lol what are you doing?
That’s what the Steam Deck is for. ;)
making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business, many people are still on Win 10 with no intention to switch
The switch from Win 10 to Win 11 costs nothing, so Microsoft doesn’t care at all whether you keep using 10 until your PC dies.
The next one you buy will come with 11 preinstalled.Microsoft doesn’t care if you install Linux either.
You’ve already paid for the Windows license when you bought the PC.So don’t pay for windows, get it unactivated and use MAS to activate it.
Why? What benefit would Microsoft have in changing the requirements for Windows 11 when Windows 12 will more than likely be the OS they focus most of their resources on?
This.
The way Microsoft phrases it, it’s way more ubiquitous than you make it out:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/what-is-tpm-705f241d-025d-4470-80c5-4feeb24fa1ee
"TPM has been around for over 20 years, and has been part of PCs since around 2005. In 2016 TPM version 2.0 - the current version as of this writing - became standard in new PCs.
The odds are that your PC does already have TPM, and if it’s less than 5 years old you should have TPM 2.0.
To find out if your Windows 10 PC already has it go to Start > Settings > Update and Security > Windows Security > Device Security. If you have it, you’ll see a Security processor section on the screen."
So when they say:
“Important: Windows 11 requires TPM version 2.0.”
They’re requiring a standard established 7 years ago. Windows 11 launched in 2021, why WOULDN’T it require something from 2016?
You really want to run an OS from 2021 on hardware older than 2016? That’s not going to be a good idea, TPM or not.
Probably worth noting that TPM often needs to be enabled in the motherboard’s BIOS. It’s possible that OP has it already, but got the “you don’t have TPM” error when trying to upgrade to Win11, simply because it isn’t activated in their BIOS.
Yup, seems likely given how it’s baked in and has been baked in for years.
Problem is, i havent enabled my TPM and don’t plan to, either.
TPM just gives your PC a non-spoofable fingerprint so Microsoft can always identify your PC. It’s simply a DRM-device built into your PC.
Your PC is already identifiable by the license key, the hardware installed, and you signing in with a Microsoft Account. If you’re that worried about gummint tracking or something, you shouldn’t even be gaming on your PC, as games and game stores have a lot of data to leak about you and what you’re doing on the PC.
i don’t sign-in to my systems with a microsoft account. hell, i don’t even have one. nowadays, i dunno if i could even get one–and maintain it, as i do not have, nor want, an sms-capable or ‘smart’ phone. they don’t do ‘verification’ bullshit by voice anymore, just sms.
Just because you haven’t enabled it doesn’t mean it’s not available. If you want a modern operating system, that’s the “you must be this tall to ride this ride.”
You mean a massively patched windows 2000 with modern OS? Does Linux count, or BSD? How about macOS?
Linux if you’re prepared to support it entirely yourself and still have functional issues.
MacOS if you want to pay 3x the price for hardware that’s 1/2 as capable and has locked you out of modifications.
Linux if you’re prepared to support it entirely yourself
What does this even mean? The most work caused in administering my company’s IT comes from destructive patches from Microsoft. Just like a month ago they released a security patch that caused the domain controller to not reboot which is pretty much the worst thing you can run into aside outright malicious actors (not sure Microsoft doesn’t count as one). So I had to “support” users by rolling back untested shit until a hotfix was released.
My private setup runs exclusively on Linux. Patches also sometimes cause trouble but it’s just as infrequent and less destructive if it happens.
It’s really not that different from an admin point of view but it’s not Linux’ business model to snoop on or extort you or to force proprietary hardware on you because sEcUrItY.
Two days ago I spent the whole day rebuilding a linux server because an update ate the system. This is not a Microsoft specific issue.
My favorite is when the sssd package maintainers don’t properly update their dependencies, so when some of the packages get updated, they don’t pull in others, and then I’m not able to log in with my external account.
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You really want to run an OS from 2021 on hardware older than 2016? That’s not going to be a good idea, TPM or not.
Why?
10+ years of usage for a PC or laptop is completely normal outside the gamere/tech enthusiast bubble.
If you only use your PC for Amazon, Streaming and occasionally Word/Excel, a 10yo laptop is totally enough.
Because old hardware doesn’t keep up with new system specs. There’s only so much you can upgrade and replace.
Technically, yeah, I can run Mac OSX on my Rev. B Bondi Blue iMac. Should I? No. Not if I want a modicum of a usable device.
That’s an argument that wouldn’t even hit a barn door from a step away.
It’s an argument based on working in tech for 40 years.
Old as fuck machines can absolutely still work so long as you continue using old as fuck software.
If you want the latest, you have to upgrade.
Yep, it’s an argument outdated by about 20 years. At that time 10 years difference between two machines meant that you had completely different machine.
But having a good 10yo machine now means it’s about on the same level as an entry-level machine now. My laptop I bought in 2013 for ~€700 had an i7 4th gen, which is totally fast enough for non-gaming usage, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD and a dGPU that’s still faster than most iGPUs.
That are specs you can still find in modern entry-level PCs.
And that laptop has no issue running Win10 at all and if I workaround the arbitrary requirement for TPM2 and Intel Gen 8, it also runs fine. But I don’t want to risk that Microsoft sometime arbitrarily decides to not give me updates any more.
And also, the argument that it’s not a good choice to run a modern OS on a 25yo machine is a pretty dumb counter against the argument that a 10yo machine can run a modern OS without issue.
we still run win10 at the office on dual core wolfdale systems. they mostly now have 8gb ram and sata ssd. they run great. wolfdale launched in 2008, seven years before win10 was released.
i also have win11 set up on ivy bridge and haswell, that are also running very well. used daily for everything from basic office tasks, email with local multi-gigabyte mail stores, to video capture and editing. these are even older in relation to win11 than wolfdale is to win10.
the main issue is microsoft has unilaterally and arbitrarily decided that all these systems, all the way up to kaby lake (which was only discontinued by intel in 2020), which are usable by many, if not most, users for the tasks they perform are now ‘obsolete’… all in the name of profits for them and their oem partners.
It’s hard to avoid. People here just have been bitching about tpm because Linux distro maintainers don’t want to jump through hoops signing their shit. This problem doesn’t exist outside of Linux forums and people with absurdly old hardware.
Wrong. Linux has supported TPM2.0 for ages before even Windows and every distro maintainer would gladly sign their shit. The problem is that a shitload of hardware only accepts Microsoft TPM keys by default which can’t legally be used by Linux distributions, forcing the work onto the users. It’s pure vendor lock-in.
Also, this is going to be a way less of an issue when UKI’s become the standard.As I recall it, and correct me if I am wrong; but Linux and Distros are given keys to use? So if they want to they can revoke those keys and you could only install a Windows operating system?
The the default keys on the hardware, e.g. the keys hardcoded to the motherboard are 95+% of the time only the Microsoft Windows one’s.
Even if the distro maintainers & developers had everything configured by default to be signed which is a pain in the ass without UKI’s, it still requires the user to add new keys manually. Rarely do you have hardware with a key for a Linux distribution, and even if you managed to get hardware that has them, the majority of the time it’s only keys for stuff like RHEL, Ubuntu Enterprise Edition, etc.So if they want to they can revoke those keys
That’s generally not possible, but I imagine if the BIOS is Internet capable it could be.
and you could only install a Windows operating system.
Nope. TPM isn’t required to be able to install the system, only to take advantage of secure boot and security features of the hardware.
No chance.
https://lemmy.world/post/9205583
Here’s why it’s against Microsoft interest to drop TPM requirement. They will paywall updates for Windows 10. So, pay for software updates or pay for hardware updates.
Because there is no possible alternative /S
Wow, so many salty replies to Linux or soon-to-be Linux users in that thread
Not really, the only saltines comes from OPs tears all over this post.
It’s just so fun seeing how OP is faced with either having an unsecure system or having to pay to replace his otherwise perfectly capable machine, but still has so much loyalty to Microsoft (or he’s in extreme denial) that he’s throwing shit at everybody,even those who just explain Microsoft won’t drop the requirement.
But it’s ok, my non TPM machines will continue to work for years, always up to date. And when 12 rises the requirements yet again I’ll laugh at all the people crying that a trillion dollars company isn’t hearing them.
As someone mentioned in the comments, non TPM machines can have W11 on them and it will most likely work just fine so that’s pretty much a non issue…
In 2025 TPM 2.0 will be 11 years old, add the optional 3 years of updates and that’s 14 years old, I don’t think there will be that much personal hardware without TPM 2.0 that is still being actively used at either of those points and if the people who do still use it absolutely want to stick to Windows then they’ll still have the option I mentioned before…
Serious question: what are the actual application of TPM in our day-to-day use?
https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/trusted-platform-module-TPM
It’s doing stuff in the background…
You can tinker your way around it, and hope Microsoft doesn’t change anything that breaks the workaround. Doesn’t make OPs less funny.
This is nothing new. Windows 10 will be 10 years old at that point. They’ve done paid extended service for several previous windows versions. I don’t like Windows or Microsoft. I run Linux or MacOS where I can but I can’t fault them for supporting an OS for 10 years.
Longer than apple will ever support an OS you can be damn sure about that.
The updates are free and changes affecting user interface and software compatible are minimal. Especially compared to windows versions.
I quite enjoy MacOS but they are way more likely to break backwards compatibility than Microsoft. I would argue that one of Microsoft’s biggest problems with Windows is that they don’t break compatibility often enough. The engineering effort they put into maintaining support for archaic software is pretty immense.
What? No. lol
Apple updates constantly break whether or not an application can be updated and remain compatible. It’s literally the biggest headache we have when dealing with Apple in an enterprise environment. This version of Adobe CC only works on MacOS Big Sur but the other department is still on High Sierra and this remote site is fully on Monterey. None of their projects are cross compatible because they’re all on different versions of Adobe which aren’t compatible with their OS versions.
User interface? Sure. Though W11 can look exactly like 10 if you want. I don’t really care about changes in aesthetic though.
Sounds like an Adobe/corporate IT management issue. My only experience is with MacOs on personal devices. All companies I’ve worked with have used windows and updates were avoided until absolutely necessary.
Lol “I have no knowledge of this but it’s definitely a management problem.”
Thanks, but it’s not. Adobe can’t be updated past a certain point unless you update the OS. Can’t do that cause the machine is too old? Better buy a new one. The point of being “too old” is much much younger than Windows PC hardware.
Windows is easy, just update it. Still on Windows 10? No problem. Still supported. The updates are also free lol for whatever that matters.
I’m not familiar with MacOS, but what’s preventing Adobe from updating? Is it updating from the App store and apple just stops delivering the updates after EOL or is it that Adobe doesn’t bother pushing updates for OS versions past their EOL?
In any case, it sucks that apple decides that a otherwise perfectly capable computer is no longer supported just due to age (like with phones I guess…)
Yeah, I know it’s nothing new. Just an example of what Microsoft offers to people on his situation and how Microsoft won’t suddenly backtrack on W12.
What incentive would they have? What competition is there?
What incentive would they have? What competition is there?
They would have no incentive of course. A Win11 system with the TPM turned off would be infected with malware straight away.
From business standpoint, it simply bleeds you potential profits. If tens of percents skimp on two of your OS iterations in a row and keep windows 10 (which most of were “free” upgrades from Win 7 to begin with) then you are losing lot of revenue in a long run. I got the original win 10 upgrade in 2015 (bought win 7 in 2011) , in 2020 build a new PC and still use that licence on it.I possibly see myself using Win 10 well into 2026/2027 when my PC is due for complete replacement. So that is over 15 years period where MS saw no money from me while I still use completely legal version of OS. If there was no TPM requirement, I would probabably already be on Win 11
You make it sound like MS cares about home users at all. MS makes money off business licensing. Forcing businesses to dump old equipment is a big win for them.
It’s not like the people that aren’t upgrading were making them any money anyways. MS doesn’t care about you or the 10’s of people that decide to not upgrade.
Businesses swap hardware every 2-4 years anyway, for support or warranty reasons.
My company shoots for 5 year life on desktops, 3 on laptops. At that mark we evaluate if the machine is still supported and doing the job it needs to do.
If either of those things are not true then we replace the unit.
Smaller companies that I have worked for tried to stretch most hardware to double that, but it was always a bad idea imo.
I think they will rethink things only if it’s cutting into the profits enough. Unfortunately, most people won’t understand the issue and just buy something new if they can. Of those that didn’t upgrade, a chunk might also be people who can’t upgrade because of compatibility reasons (ex. Lots of healthcare providers only RECENTLY switched to Windows 10). The remaining portion might just use Linux.
Overall they get more out of keeping the requirement unfortunately?
Imho making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business
It is good for their business.
There are very few people who turn away from M$ because they disagree with the TPM requirement.
There are some more people who whine and complain about the TPM requirement. Note the subtle difference :-) Experience has shown that most of these people have no real problem. They find a way, for example buy new hardware. It was a success for M$ if you buy new hardware.
In the long run, M$ wants to make more use of your TPM. Therefore I do not think that they see any reason to drop it.
Absolutely not. None of the arguments you said are even relevant for their business. If it was true they would do their best to reduce the requirements creep version to version.
Of course you can use Linux, but you made clear that you’re uninformed about that in another post.
Rufus or registry editing during installation can both dodge the requirement if you need it.
I’ve been running 11 on my 10 y/o PC without TPM 2 for a while and it’s been working with zero issues. It’s all just a money grabbing scheme to get people to upgrade their hardware.
TPM == double plus good/secure, right?
