And the sound engineer people (not sure if that’s their official title) are* suuuuper condescending about it. “Well it’s your fault for not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theater.”
Edit: *Fixed a typo.
Thanks for the replies people, I’m learning a lot! I think another commenter referenced the same article I’m half-remembering (as you do) where some professional audio people commented on this issue. They said movies are designed for the theater and nothing else with no intention/interest in fixing it. IIRC (and I probably don’t) this is likely due to directors or studios not wanting to pay for a home version or having a specific vision they would rather not compromise. Even though the effect of not compromising is…well, the posted comic.
Former sound engineer here. Yes, that’s the correct title, but no, that’s not our doing (not mine at least). I want as many people as possible to reasonably be able to enjoy my output, regardless whether they have a 40000$ home cinema, or if they’re on a cheap TV.
I know that some directors (Christopher Nolan) tend to want to produce “best” quality at the expense of those who don’t care. See Tenet as an example.
Hey at least with Nolan movies, it really doesn’t matter what they’re saying
Obligatory:
Brilliant
If you can have sound separated into different channels based on what their purpose is, I don’t see why they can’t just have a software solution that allows you to raise the volume of dialogue separately from everything else.
Like in video games, you can control volume for dialogue, music, sound effects, etc all individually.
As much as I would love that, its use would be very limited without widespread adaption of software or hardware support.
My Denon home theater amp has a setting for this. It doesn’t work very well, but there’s a minor improvement when it’s set to medium.
God I freaking love Tenet. I haven’t watched it in a few months I’ll watch it tonight.
Watch it in reverse.
99% of the time, the cause is trying to output a 5.1 signal into a Stereo setup (Like your TV speakers). A 5.1 signal is 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer. The speakers are front left and right, rear left and right and - the important bit - the centre channel. The centre channel tends to be where all of the dialogue comes from, while everything else comes from the other speakers. But what happens if you don’t have 5 speakers? What if you only have 2? You can’t ignore that audio so you’ve got to mush it together somehow and now you’ve got dialogue and explosions coming out of the same speakers with mixed results.
It’s not about not having a professional setup mixed the same as a theatre, it’s usually about a setting somewhere that’s incorrect. If you’re only using your TV’s speakers, there’s a good chance something somewhere is trying to give it a surround sound signal and it’s trying to downmix that to stereo. Usually you can fix it by adjusting a setting somewhere, either the TV itself or whatever app/box is sending the TV the signal as most sources do actually come with a stereo mix.
However, a better way of solving it is getting yourself a soundbar. It doesn’t have to be an expensive one at all, even the cheaper soundbars will sound better than your TV ever will and they’ll at least have a 3.1 signal that’ll separate out the sound effects/music from the dialogue because usually that dialogue goes through the centre channel which you now have. You can also usually adjust the volume of that channel independently.
Note that nobody would suggest that a cheap soundbar is anything close to a “professional setup”. Most audio folk would turn their nose up at the idea of using a soundbar over a full surround system but you know what, they’re pretty “good enough” for most folk and if you care about media consumption, it’s a nice improvement.
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I have that setup
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The theater is also too imbalanced and too loud
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i was once present to recording of some cheap radio advertisement, and the last step in the mixing process was that the guy burned the cd and plugged it in into 20 usd cd player to hear what it will sound like to the intended audience.
so not every professional has necessarily be an obnoxious asshole.
Screw how they do it in the theatre. Watching Dune gave me a migraine for the rest of the day thanks to the sound.
Dune gave me an erection for the rest of the day because of the sound.
I’m with you
Tibetan throat gurgling intensifies
Get out and vote, people!
Re-recording mixer would be more accurate. Engineer is more a music thing I think. Regardless, designer Mark Mangini knows this is an issue for example due to theater mixes being a priority over a basic stereo mix. This is an issue in action films (I can’t imagine a drama would have this huge an issue, less dynamics) and as long as the mixers have to prioritize the Atmos theater mixes n shit and the studio doesn’t want to pay for a great home stereo mix, the dynamics issue will continue
I recall reading something on Reddit or medium about an audio engineer who demanded to talk with the manager because the sound was “wrong”. Apparently the theater had a different speaker setup than she had designed the movie for.
I can’t find the link now though. Is there a name for that? Like baader-meinhoff but in reverse?
Meinhoff-Baader.
Subtitles: On
Supposedly most Gen Z now use subtitles and I don’t blame them. With the way movie sound is mixed it’s really hard to hear the dialog. Not everyone has a Dolby-certified sound system in their living room.
Even with a basic surround system that has a separate center channel (and fiddling with the settings for 5.1, Atmos, stereo) we still often have to use subtitles. It’s major failure on the part of movie studio audio engineers.
Funny thing is, that it is only in the original language audio track, if you watch in German (what I not recommend, since I can’t stand the synchros) the speakers are way louder compared to the background noice/action scenes.
Luckily Plex has a feature to fix that on original language tracks as well and reduces loud sound automatically.
what I not recommend
Which I do not recommend.
I think you got what I wanted to say
I’m Gen X and have been using subtitles ever since I had kids. My kids have only ever seen the TV with subtitles on. Just recently I noticed that they watch Youtube with subtitles on. So, not sure if it’s nature or nurture :)
The nice thing about a dedicated center channel is you can focus your volume battles there for some movies.
The best are the Amazon originals with no 2.1 mix where the dialog is center channel only. My daughter loves cartoons with zero dialog.
Turning on the subtitles while children are watching television can double the chances of a child becoming good at reading†. It’s so brilliantly simple and can help children’s literacy so much that we want to shout it from the rooftops!
https://turnonthesubtitles.org/
†Based on an academic study of 2,350 children, 34% became good readers with schooling alone. But when exposed to 30 minutes a week of subtitled film songs, that proportion more than doubled to 70%. There are lots of studies about the benefits of subtitles. This is just one! Check out our research page to find out more.
Wow, that’s amazing! Are schools adding 30 minutes of subtitled entertainment to their curriculum? If not, why the hell not?
I’m Dutch. I put subtitles on everything, even if the show is in my native language.
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Home releases and streaming need a reduced dynamic range mix as a selectable audio channel. TV compressors almost never cut it.
I recently watched a show on a streaming service with several audio options for boosted dialogue. This should be standard for all releases.
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If anyone uses Kodi, there’s an audio setting to downmix the center channel that helps with this. This comic is hilarious btw.
Why though? You want the center channel up and the mains and surrounds down. Most of the dialogue comes through the center.
Down-mix does not mean reduce volume, it means output for a smaller number of channels than originally intended. The idea is to create your own mix that prioritizes the centre channel more than the standard mix does.
Oh, interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I’m going to check if Stremio has that. Is there a way that I could configure it on my amp? That might be a more reliable approach. The amp has a dialogue mode, but it’s not great. Medium setting on that mode produces slightly more intelligible speech. Does downmixing the center have any negative consequences, like not getting an actual surround sound experience? I love the enhanced experience from sounds coming from behind me, the sides, etc.
Yeah, it’s more for someone with a two channel system. If you have a centre channel, just turn it up :)
It’s gotten to the point that I only feel safe watching movies with headphones (on my phone/computer). I can always keep a finger on the volume button, and at least with headphones I won’t upset my roommates with the volume lol
The best solution I’ve found for this is to play content at about 10% TV volume and have Kodi apply a ~16dB preamp to the audio. Works perfectly, everything just sounds the right volume, no distortion or clipping, no suddenly getting quiet before action scenes.
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An equalizer helps a bit. Turn up the mids. Or at least turn down the bass, for whisper-whisper-EXPLOSION movies.
Turn down the bass? Are you joking?
There is never enough bass, especially from tiny TV speakers.
I’m ok with it, I’ve got a room in my own house with a surround sound system. I recognize not everyone has this. A mix with a compressed dynamic range should always be an option.
It more about if you have thin walls and nearby neighbours or family members who don’t appreciate the noise
Yeah, I get irrationally uncomfortable if anyone can hear what I’m listening to
Subtitles are great for this, but also investing in actual speakers instead of a soundbar or the tv’s speakers.
If the movie has multiple sound channels beyond left/right, then dialogue is usually one of those channels and can come from a specific speaker, making it less muddied than when mixed with other sounds.
If the movie doesn’t have multiple channels, the speakers might still help a little just by being better quality.
