What a time to be alive to see millions of people getting starved to death live while world leaders applaud and call it defense.
It sounds like even the US government is starting to get uneasy about Bibi’s bloodthirsty ways.
“Blinken says “Israel has the right to defend itself”, but adds: “How Israel does this matters.””
Fellas, is it antisemitism if we don’t want kids to starve? 🤔
Egypt is letting in supplies but they refuse to let Palestineans leave through Egypt.
One of the Egyptian security sources, who asked not to be identified, told Reuters news agency that Egypt rejected the idea of safe corridors for civilians to protect “the right of Palestinians to hold on to their cause and their land”.
Evidently they care more about the political pressure Palestineans provide against Israel than they do keeping their fellow Arabs safe, and they don’t want to deal with the negative effects of letting hostile refugees in. (That didn’t work out well for Jordan or Lebanon.)
Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. Egypt has a long history of issues with the Muslim brotherhood. Some of it, in fact, just happened. They are not keen on more of that trouble.
They also know that the refugees will probably never be able to return to Gaza if they leave.
So innocents must be kept in danger against their will so that they can retain claims to their land. With allies like that who needs enemies?
Alternatively Israel could endeavor not to do things like flatten apartment buildings and whole city blocks.
If you were in charge of Israel right now, how would you respond? Just sending in troops without air support to pacify Gaza would presumably lead to a lot of deaths like it has in the past.
The Arab states don’t want an influx of refugees, especially if that means a fraction of them will Islamist (Egypt in particular), but they also don’t want to let Israel depopulate Palestinian territory by forced relocation of the residents into their countries.
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Honestly this is an awful situation. But the reason you don’t see more harsh criticisms from world leaders (and there have been criticisms and statements calling some of what they are doing as illegal) is because the world leaders know that they may need to same option if something similar happens to them.
Do you have a better suggestion for what Israel should do in order to respond. And saying “free Palestine” doesn’t count. They completely left Gaza and it got worse. I can’t stand Bibi, but he absolutely called it when they were planning to leave Gaza. The blockade of Gaza didn’t start until Hamas took over. And do recall Egypt is also blockading.
If Tijuana started launching rockets and attacked thousands of civilians in California, what do think the response would look like? Or if Morocco did the same to Ceuta?
I don’t see how this attack ends. I mean it has absolutely destroyed the chance for Gaza reps to be involved in peace talks. Not that there was much chance of that. Honestly, if I had to guess, Israel plans to wipe out all of the higher up Hamas this time in an attempt to bring Gaza back under the PA/Fatah.
But, given the situation is what it is, how do you think the Israeli government should respond?
I mean. I agree that Hamas are fuckheads and the leaders are very safe somewhere else. They don’t care that much about the response. And of course I condemn Hamas’ killing of civilians.
Hamas is a tumor that is not interested in lasting peace with Israel. I agree that moderate factions should be governing.
Now, as what Israel should do. It’s not easy, I agree. Any option has drawbacks, so there is no good solution, especially at this boiling point.
Keep up the siege, or rather lockdown athat point, but let necessities of life through. Let the Red Cross and other orgnizations help the civilians.
The issue is, that doing this will not lessen the disdain peolle in Gaza have for Israel and become new fertile ground of hatred against Israel. Unless they kill everyone there, at which point the situation is solved. But for what price?
let necessities of life through.
“They completely left Gaza and it got worse.”
They left Gaza and then doubled down not only on embargoes, but also on building illegal settlements in West Bank in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention that they are signatories to.
Well in one night Tijuana would be a smoking crater.
Kind of my point.
“Free Palestine!”
See, it counts.
Rewarding their mass murder of civilians by capitulating, surely that will keep them safe.
It’s a start.
Incentivizing mass murder, bold move. Next time someone you love gets murdered be sure to give the murderer a gift rather than seeking punishment for them. I’m sure that will improve things and lead to a more safe and fair world.
You know I I’m right. And history will prove it.
Yes. It worked super well to prevent world war 2.
Your position might have been reasonable two weeks ago. Today, reconciliation with a hostile enemy who is actively murdering and kidnapping your civilians is both inappropriate and foolish.
Remember the Pig War. Nothing changes.
We let Germany decide? Out of all conflicts about disputed territories that was a weird one to choose.
I could have used the MILF Squad.
“If Hamas doesn’t return our hostages, we will kill every man, woman, and child in Gaza.”
Egypt could let them in but:
One of the Egyptian security sources, who asked not to be identified, said Egypt rejected the idea of safe corridors for civilians to protect “the right of Palestinians to hold on to their cause and their land”.
Does dying on their land really help their cause?
It’s probably because they know they won’t be temporary refugees. If they leave Gaza they will never be allowed to return. It’s ethnic cleansing.
Pretty sure the 50% of the Gaza population who are children would be better off not being bombed to fuck. That’s ethnic cleansing. Moving down the road a bit while Hamas gets wiped out seems a wise move.
True that’s also ethnic cleansing. Hm. Maybe some country shouldn’t be engaged in ethnic cleansing. Maybe that’s the actual problem.
Yes, Hamas’ entire existence is built on their charter to ethnically cleanse the Israelis…
Meanwhile, Israel doesn’t need to put it into a charter. They just do it, and have been for decades.
We’ve just witnessed what happens when Hamas puts all of their might into their charter of ethnic cleansing. If Israel had such a charter, what would it look like if Israel put all their might into ethnically cleansing Gaza?
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Innocent people always suffer in war, maybe provoking an unwinnable one has consequences for others in your nation. Maybe some country shouldn’t invade its neighbor, slaughter and kidnap its civilians to avoid such retribution.
Palestine at this point is a sickly rage-drunk inconsolable angry person at the bar, yelling about how their home got repossessed to build the establishment. In a rage they punch the bouncer in the face, and when the predictable beat-down occurs they plead, “Look what they’re doing to me! I’m being unfairly repressed! I have kids who will suffer because of this! This is systemic oppression! They made me do it!”
Except in this case the bouncer shows up the next day in the drunk’s neighborhood and starts shooting up all the homes and kills a bunch of his neighbors and the newspapers call him a hero.
What really grinds my gears, are people who purposefully immigrated to both Gaza, and as Israeli settlers, just to have as many kids as possible to increase the population, then use their own kids as throwaway tokens in a fully expected conflict.
Having double nationality and now asking “their countries” to avacuate them, is just extra insulting.
Palestinian militants have a history of establishing enclaves and starting civil wars within the countries that host them. Arab countries have an apprehension about allowing too many Palestinians in because of this history.
This was a sad thing to learn about. Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait. All of them saw civil war or strife after taking in Palestinians :/.
It’s almost like a certain group doesn’t want peace.
PalestinianIranian backed militants have a history of establishing enclaves and starting civil wars within the countries that host them. because of this history.FTFY
Yes, Iranian regimes have provided material aid to Palestinian militants towards their goals. That aid is still being provided, hence continuing apprehension.
That’s really not the flex you think it is.
Would it work for a larger country to fly in refugees, since hopefully they’d be much more resistant to civil wars? It’d be hard to sell your citizens on spending that much on non-citizens though.
That is a better solution for those who want to flee or have the means or freedom to flee, or are ok with abandoning their communities and historical ties. However this would only help those refugees. For those who remain the situation will remain untenable until militants stop rising to power within Palestinian territories, and Israel negotiates a two state solution that involves giving up some land.
I have a feeling we’ll have more refugees than capacity to help them. But I agree.
I assume the idea is to get the starving Palestinians turn on Hamas.
How would they turn on Hamas? What would that even look like? I’ve heard tons of interviews with Palestinians, and almost all were just as shocked at what happened as Israelis. Many, many already do not support Hamas, but what is there to even do about that when you’re just trying to find enough food and water to keep your family alive?
No food, no water, no power, please explain to me how this is not genocide.
Not to mention the white phosphorus launched by Israel
No genetic testing, so not “geno”-cide… /s
Geno in genocide isn’t referring to genetics. It’s gene as in genos as in race not religion. Arab Jews and Arab Muslims are the same race so it couldn’t be genocide strictly defined but rather the UN/international definition. And that’s wholely ignoring that race is a social construct not a objective fact and science does not in fact recognize “race” but rather geographic phenotypical derivation.
These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.[1][2]
Because all of that can still be imported through the Egyptian border? Israel isn’t supplying the state that just declared war on them with resources, not intentionally starving all of Gaza to death like you seem to be implying.
Gaza is not a state, it does not have any of the rights normal countries have, it’s an open-air prison managed by Israel. And it is currently under naval blockade by Israel, so even if Gaza was a state it would still be a war crime.
A prison you can leave at anytime isn’t a prison. They can all seek asylum in egypt
You are talking about ethnic cleansing here my friend. Making a situation so hostile and violent that a population needs to flee their homeland.
It’s a tale as old as time. The other alternative is every few years Hamas attacks Isreal and they carpet bomb Gaza for a few days or weeks.
I feel like this is Netanyahu’s final solution.
He gets to genocide the Palestunians, the US gets to invade Iran.
Watch.
Okay, so hamas has Israeli hostages. In retaliation, Israel takes 2.3 million Palestinian hostages?
It would seem to be the case. And I’m not sure what Hamas thought would happen.
Hamas wins when Israel makes more desperate people that just want revenge.
Terrorists generally thrive on instability.
Usually they prefer to trade hostages for their own though.Sure, but what better way to recruit new fighters?
This is the same play that al-Queda made on 9/11: they made the US severely overplay their hand with one egregious coordinated attack.
The US is still paying for that overzealous reaction 20 years later; there is a case to me made that ISIL wouldn’t have been the power that it became without the GWOT.
Hamas is trying to exploit the fact that they’ve made Palestinians a worldwide target with limited options: more desperate people without a future means Hamas is the only entity to turn to.
you can say the same about Russia. Propaganda in both of this countries is very strong…
In what sense? Who’s making whose people more desperate and looking for revenge?
the russians are blaming the west for all the bad that is happening currently. Their propaganda is declaring us as the boogeyman and a whole new generation of russians is raising up with the image of the west as an enemy.
But should this stop us in our aid and support for ukraine? People will keep dying in this war and people will keep dying as long as a terror group as the Hamas is leading in Gazah.
Given that they are committing a war crime against 2 million people, which by some definition can be considered hostages… This is quite rich.
Now the Ethnic cleansing machine can carry on with the support of the west.
As an American, I don’t support the response of my government.
Israel literally going to kill 1/3 of the amount of Jews that the Nazi killed and think that isn’t an issue.
Aren’t they going to essentially kill the hostages if they keep up with the seige and bombings?
Going full Nazi at this point.
Irony has never been much darker.
“We’ll kill 2 million people in response to you killing 2,000.”
It’s a shitty situation all around.
It’s shittier for some than others.
Hamas launches an attack and then dips out while civilians everywhere get slaughtered… cool… cool…
Well, then Israel has no reason to target Gaza because Hamas isn’t there according to @skozzii@lemmy.ca
Fuck Israel but also… let the hostages go
