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Scooters go where people walk… trucks usually don’t
Whew! It’s a good thing trucks never go through cross walks or across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
The only reason people ride scooters on the sidewalks is because our infrastructure is severely lacking and you get stuck “sharing” a lane with a 6000+lb truck.
You aren’t wrong and neither are they.
Stop that! You get outta here with that rational approach
I mean it’s /fuckcars on Lemmy. There are more extremist places you can find on the interweb, but not many.
across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
Generally not faster than scooter speed anyway though.
And they don’t like to share. I had to flip off a driver for almost running me over today
Damn. Wish there was a way to have separate lanes or something
Still, bike lanes have a speed limit of 25 km/h where I live
but you don’t even need to be particularly swole to reach 30 km/h on a bicycle, how does that work then? Do they arrest people without speedometers on their bikes?
Generally that rule is not checked nor enforced.
okay so it’s just not actually a thing in practice then, not sure why bring it up in that case?
Not in my city. It is illegal for motorized vehicles of any kind to travel on sidewalks.
It’s illegal here as well, they just do it anyways
Reminds me of this guy: https://youtu.be/bzE-IMaegzQ
People are forbidden from going where the trucks go… or that seems to be the popularly agreed upon arrangement.
Rly?
Is it just me, or does this thread feel unusually hostile towards scooters for being in fuckcars?
Right? The scooters are only in the sidewalks because the cars actively make the roads dangerous for them. But here we are in a place that supposedly hates cars defending them against a very useful replacement for a huge amount of people.
My city has a pretty good protected bike lane network, and a result is you rarely see scooters or bikes on the sidewalks (at least in the parts of town with good protected bike lanes). Instead, you get lots of scooters and bikes zipping safely by without endangering pedestrians. At least on my route to work, I’m about 90% sure there are more commuters in the bike lanes than cars on the road, despite the cars getting 90+% of the road space.
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I frickin love protected bike lanes. Turns a stressful experience into a downright pleasant one. It feels 10000x safer than riding on streets without protection.
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You should still wear a helmet. It isn’t there for cars, it’s there because going from biking speed to no speed is more than enough acceleration to cause injury.
it’s so fascinating how people absolutely lose their minds over e-scooters, and these are people who shit on drivers for doing the exact same thing to cyclists!
Probably because these scooters compete with bikes for the space thats left over.
no they don’t, what kind of logic is that? By that logic cyclists should hate other cyclists too.
More people using bike infrastructure is great, it makes it visible and increases the likelihood of more money being spent on it.
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Sorry about your circle jerk
One of these share footpaths with pedestrians. The other two have to use their own dedicated pathways.
One of these
Oh, really?
Yeah, in general. Cars are not allowed to drive on sidewalks under most if not all circumstances. The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars. We want walkable cites, not e-scootable.
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
Speak for yourself. I want cities that are not dependent on cars. Walkable is the ideal, but cycling and scooting is an upgrade from cars.
Cars are not
allowed toThey’re not supposed to do a lot of things, and yet they do all of those things. They speed, they overtake dangerously, they kill pedestrians and cyclists, they kill or injure other motorists.
“But there’s a rule against it” doesn’t resolve problems like all the pedestrian and cycling deaths that we seem to accept as a needful sacrifice to keep bad transport infra and as-is. There are also rules against scooters operating dangerously. I’m not sure why bigger, heavier, more-powerful vehicles ought not to be subject to similar kinds of controls scooters are
if not all circumstances.
Not all. All cars can drive across sidewalk.
The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
Kinda (article from where I took sign). Here it means transit traffic(driving through) is not allowed, speed is limited to walking speed(which in my country defined as 20km/h) and vehicles should yield to any pedestrians. Usually it is placed around micro-district where internal roads are connected to two or more city highways.
Not all. All cars can drive across sidewalk.
Only at specific points where a car crossing a sidewalk is expected, such as a turn in to a driveway, or an active emergency that would require the car to cross onto the pavement. Drivers can’t just yeet themselves across the pavement for no reason.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
Because drivers have to go though training and always have the potential of having their license revoked. Not anyone can just walk up to a car dealership and walk out with a car and no understanding of road law. Divers can just be trusted more than people using other modes of transport, which is why they get to move faster.
And again, whataboutism. Being the lesser of two evils is not the same as being acceptable.
In denser commerical areas, up to and even exceeding 50% of the sidewalk space can be driveways and entrance ways for cars. Add that many of this style of road can be 4+ lanes and 60+ km/h traffic. There is a lot of potential conflict areas, drivers often enter these driveways exceeding speeds safe for pedestrianized areas and these roads are designed for drivers to see other cars, not notice pedestrians.
As for trusting drivers due to their “training” most drivers are taught once while they are a teenager/young adult, pass some short practical tests (maybe 1 hour total time of testing) and are now trusted for a lifetime of driving. They never get retested despite change in driving laws, car technology, changes to their physicsl or mental health, or time since their last test. Driving infractions are paid off by monetary fines and not dealt with by mandated retraining courses.
The existence of a driver’s lisence as proof of a safe driver means very little to the cyclist who got hit by a right turning vehicle thhat vehicle did not check their mirrors for a clear bicycle gutter.
Drivers can’t just yeet themselves across the pavement for no reason.
They shouldn’t, but they do.
More like they ban pedestrians from their pathways.
I couldn’t care less if e-scooters gain more traction but I do care if a completely unprotected vehicle can go at speeds where either the driver/rider or a pedestrian can get killed or seriously injured in the event of an accident and those have already happened where I live, with a large proportion going towards recklessness of the driver/rider.
These vehicles have been recorded travelling down highways, criss-crossing traffic, cutting in front of busses, etc, often with very gory results for every part involved.
We do not need more blood on the streets.
In Germany they’re limited to bicycle infrastructure and neither sidewalks nor highways are that, 20km/h (hardware limit, 12.4274mph in colonial units), no license but minimum age is 14, same DUI laws as for cars, and you need insurance. Which, granted, is quite cheap at 30-60 Euro a year and comes with a cute little license plate in fashionable colours (as in: changes every year). There’s also some signalling requirements mostly mirroring bikes, minimum standards for brakes, such stuff. No regular technical inspection, though.
The morale? If you want to go fast get a bike 30km/h aren’t that hard.
I’m a bit to the south! Hello from Portugal!
We allowed those contraptions with the same restrictions as bicycles but because the tourist industry is wild here, they became sort of a fever and soon we were having people modifying those things to reach 80km/h or more.
Accidents have been crazy and bloody.
e-kickscooters, e-bikes and pedelecs can actually go faster here, but they would need to be classified as motorscooter/moped (<45km/h, drivers license, operating license, no use of sidewalks or bike lanes, mandatory helmet) or motorbikes (motorbike license, registered plate not just insurance plate, mandatory inspections)
Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.
The limit makes sense.
Another bullshit cars are evil post that just ignore facts and reality.
Cars can somewhat be evil but if you want to capture the attention of people you’ve go to post well considered arguments.
Not crap like this.
These devices probably cause < .1% of fatal pedestrian accidents and are electronically speed-limited, meanwhile for the device that causes 99% you put the responsibility of keeping speeds safe in the hands of individuals ranging from considerate over careless to outright methheads.
is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas
Why could that be? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those are the only places where said 99% mode of transport responsible for 7,500 pedestrian deaths a year is banned and streets, where e-scooters should normally a go in cities, are designed for 2.5 tonne cars going 40?
The limit makes sense.
I mean yea, it does, but it is in essence just another concession to car dependency. Can’t curb pedestrian deaths because infrastructure is dogshit, drivers are careless and cars become more and more unsafe? Just regulate the hell out of every means of transport other than the one causing all the deaths and make getting from a to b as hard as possible for everyone not driving. Helps to a) blur the blame and cause some infighting (for instance, this post) and b) getting more people in cars must mean fewer pedestrian deaths right?? also more cars sold and no expensive infrastructure changes. Phew.
So how is it not a valid argument? It’s blatantly obvious that if cars were invented right now, with models as they are right now, safety concerns would be through the roof and they’d be regulated to hell and back with electronical speed-limits just like e-scooters are right now. The only reason cars are not limited in such a way is because they are a legacy device, part of America’s cultural identity and with a uncontrollably powerful lobby behind it so any attempt in that regard would immediately lose you public support. You’re asking for more well considered arguments, but I’m wondering what your argument is that cars should not be speed limited, other than that’s just the way it is, let everything concede to the status quo?
Note that cars are heavily regulated, have speed limits, collision regulations, are required to only operate on designated paths and require training to operate.
Meanwhile the scooters can be used by anyone without licensing, have no speedometer, and can go anywhere without a pedestrian even having a clue a scooter might be coming.
Things could be better, but in these areas frankly an even lower speed limit would not make cars that much safer, and you’d be better off without roads in some areas and poof, cars would be gone. However electric scooters would still be zipping around.
Only one of these is often ridden on footpaths and walking areas.
It’s all of them.
Wankpanzers vs actually suitable last-mile vehicles.
Then use a fucking ebike? Motorized vehicles dont belong on sidewalks, period. How the fuck are people gonna walk to work in a BUSINESS DISTRICT if there’s scooters saturating the sidewalk?
They have to go on bicycle lanes and streets (where there is no bicycle lane) here in Germany. Makes sense tbh. Cars should be slowed down to 30km/h in settlements though imo. Going on a 50km/h street is neither safe for bicycle, nor e-scooters, nor for crossing pedestrians.
And they are great ways of transportation. Grant us public transport users so much more independency.
They should introduce enforced signal lights though (only some have them). That is my only real concern here. Signalling with the arm is just not safe on a e-scooter.
Even 30 km/hr feels a bit high honestly. In a busy downtown you’re not going to be moving much at all.
By banning cars in the city and rallocating freed space to ebikes. Oh, sorry, this is harder than rocket science for you.
Not to detract from the idea that trucks are dangerous (they most definitely are) but I’m not sure this is the best argument for this. An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels. 4 wheels will do many other dangerous things. but assholes who ride their two wheels on sidewalks going top speed even at 15 without making room for pedestrians is a valid concern.
It’s also primarily an issue of lacking infrastructure. Two wheeled assholes wouldn’t be on the sidewalk if there was a bike lane, unless they’re huge two wheeled assholes.
100% this, the only time I ride my ebike on the sidewalk is when there is no bike lane or separate bike path. Cause if I have to choose between riding on a 45 mph road or the sidewalk I’m gonna pick the sidewalk and just go slower when pedestrians are around.
I unapologetically ride my bike on the sidewalks because I don’t want to die. I’m careful not to hit anyone and would love for protected bike lanes to be put in everywhere
An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels.
Not to defend irresponsible scooter use, but the ‘but scooters are more commonly a hazard to pedestrians’ argument could (and arguably should) be expanded to include trucks vs. cyclists.
I don’t always have bad interactions with motorists, but when I do it’s almost always some guy in a truck that feels entitled to drift over into the bike lane while I’m in it, or when there isn’t a bike lane, to overtake dangerously- if I have one thing I feel threatened by when I ride my bike, it’s not scooters, it’s badly-behaving motorists but mostly men in trucks.
If we’re going to use the ‘I feel threatened by scooters when I am a pedestrian’ measure to justify regulating them, what if I feel threatened by big truck drivers when I am a cyclist? Yeah this all ultimately boils down to inadequate infra so not everyone has a safe or appropriate place to be, and these are all real problems- it doesn’t make sense to me to decide one of them ought not to be addressed.
it’s gonna be hilarious in a decade when all these trucknuts types have to give up their giant jacked up shitmobiles. vroom vroom while you can children.
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depressingly plausible.
Not to mention trucks have fewer regulations put in place. Car companies can make higher margins by selling those instead so they are pushing them really hard. What we need is more regulations put on larger vehicles, but you bet they are lobbying hard against that.
What makes you think that would happen? There won’t be any laws in the USA to ban gasoline or diesel vehicles in your lifetime.
Bet you a soda you’re wrong. Writing’s on the wall chudly, your vroom vrooms are gonna go byebye one day. It’ll either be through regulation or lack of fuel availability, or the mobs that tear you out of your fucking cavemanmobile and beat you to death for continuing to make the atmosphere unlivable. Take your pick.
What a clown, do you ever talk to people like that in the real world? I’ll bet you a soda that you don’t.
Your thoughts are a fantasy, deal with it.
Sure thing vroom vroom, whatever you need to tell yourself. It’s already obvious you’re compensating for something.
That’s funny. Last time I checked Rolling Coal was still a thing.
Guess there still some time left.
compensate while you can. if that’s what gives you joy I can see why the world ending for everyone else is an attractive thing.
I’ve been hit by people on Escooters 3 times in the last 4 years.
If you wanna add speed controls to cars fine, but I think the ones that cohabit the sidewalk that people are routinely driving drunk as fuck can absolutely stay speed locked.
Where’s the guy that got hit by the vehicles on the right? Maybe there’s a reason that perspective isn’t being heard.
if you want to add speed control to cars fine
I’m literally not arguing against speed controls on cars. You can tell that by reading.
I’m saying I ALSO appreciate the mechanisms on scooters helping to keep me, as a pedestrian safe.
What is wrong with your brain that makes these mutually exclusive propositions?
I never said they were mutually exclusive. I’m just saying everyone is sharing some bad experience with scooters but the other side of the coin has been silenced.
Though I will say that I live in a city with plenty of scooter use and I can’t think of a time it’s been a major issue. Meanwhile cars and trucks threaten my life on a daily basis.
The other side of this conversation has been “silenced”?
This is literally the fuckcars community.
There aren’t two “sides”. That’s my point. Considering them as opposing positions is what demonstrates that you and others are considering them as somehow related, somehow in conflict. It’s you seeing an argument where none need exist.
You don’t have to un-govern scooters to govern cars.
You can say “I think we should limit the velocity of any vehicle that operates in proximity to pedestrians to a degree to keep them safe”.
That’s what I want. Where is the argument? Are we on different “sides”??
They’re implying that people who got hit by one of the other two vehicles in the image are not alive anymore to comment about getting hit by it, hence they got silenced.
Bro the other side is dead. Pull your head out of your ass lmfao
Bunch of crabs arguing against other crabs in the comments rather than reclaiming the seas for ourselves.
Do your cities not have speed limits?
Yes, but not enforced by GPS.
For the trucks in the picture, the speed is limited by the manufacturer.
I really hate these trucks. Not for all the genuine reasons that everyone else does. I have a 1995 Geo Tracker. It might have 60 horsepower on a good day. It’s perfect for everything I need it for. Low horsepower vehicles are awesome. Buying a 700hp truck that’s limited at the ECU to 100mph, but you only drive it on 45mph roads, is such a waste. It’s like buying a million dollar house and sleeping in the garage.
Bring back 80hp bulletproof tiny trucks.
I think that’s to protect the person on the scooter from the people in the trucks
ah yes, time to build scooter lanes in pedestrian districts that pedestrians aren’t allowed on and make it a crime to cross them when there’s traffic. great idea.
Probably it was intended to be sarcasm, but this is exactly what happened to cars.
Is it time to make a fuck scooters community?
I don’t know if you really want a “swap” here, so much as a “speed limit all of these, or maybe ban two of them.” If you get on a scooter with a max speed of 118MPH what you’re actually doing is committing suicide.
You are derailing. This post is not about faster scooters. This post is a about absurdly overpowered tanks that can (and do) wreck havoc without being limited in any considerate way.
This post is literally titled “Swap these please”.
Swap which one is GPS limited, not their stat block
Please at least try to participate in good faith
Does participation in good faith mean only agreement with you? One is an unregulated vehicle capable of hugh speed, the other two require specific licensing, and are already regulated by countless rules.
Please at least try to participate in good faith
The entire premise is a bad faith argument, that you need to “swap” anything. You can have BOTH of them GPS speed limited. There is absolutely no reason why ALL vehicles should not be speed limited when operated in proximity to pedestrians.
The “swap” in the title artificially introduce a false dichotomy. The premise is intrinsically bad faith. My initial comment was incredibly measured, all things considering.
You don’t need to GPS limit scooters to 8 mph when their top speed of 15 mph is already less than a person running. If they push someone over or hurt them due to negligent use of the scooter, charge them as you would if they’re a pedestrian. Don’t try to make an alternative to driving less appealing when cars in cities (even if GPS limited) are already hundreds of times more dangerous.
I have been injured by a negligent e scooter rider. A human body at sufficient speed is dangerous. You don’t need to be licensed or insured to ride one.
charge them as you would if they’re a pedestrian.
For the identical reason that this a an insufficient response to other vehicles, it’s insufficient here. I don’t want people who hurt me to be punished, I WANT TO BE SAFE.
This has nothing to do with cars.
Some fucker hurt me and I thank god the max speed was limited.
Just because something is an alternative to driving doesn’t automatically mean we should abandon any thought or reason and say “thou art above reproach and thous’t actions in any circumstances must be wise and good”.
Being a scooter driver doesn’t automatically make you not a fucking idiot.
First of all, your Middle English grammar is atrocious, the 2nd-person possessive pronoun is “thine”, not “thous’t”. “Thou’st”* is equivalent to the modern “you’ve”, not “your”, and “you’ve actions” doesn’t make sense.
Second, what makes you think there will be fewer injuries with speed-limited scooters? Wouldn’t you prefer they be fast enough to keep up with bike lane traffic so they don’t have a reason to be on the sidewalks at all? An 8mph scooter can still knock you over, and the fall will be the cause of the bulk of your injuries in both an 8 and 15 mph collision.
I’m not saying that they deserve to be unregulated because they aren’t cars, I’m mad that they’re getting the attention of regulators in a way that doesn’t actually make things safer, and districts from safety issues that really deserve attention.
Don’t let facts get in the way of a strong opinion.
I like your name.
