They should see it as a job, and maintain their damn properties.
I am a condo super and constantly have issues with these multi unit owners who rent out, as their tenants call me about every broken fixture and I have to remind them that their landlord is their super, not me. I only take care of the common areas.
Landlords don’t realize that their job is to be the property manager, super, handy man and administrator for the property they rent out. They’re not just supposed to sit on their ass and collect a check.
I looked after a house that my brother owned while he was out of the country for a few years. The first tenants were a group home that destroyed the place so much we had to gut the drywall and they never paid the rent until I hounded them endlessly every month. Every month.
The other tenants were just regular families and pretty good for the most part.
I would say I was dealing with something related to that house all the time. Every three weeks for stuff. Leaky faucet, roof shingle gone, branch fell on the lawn, sewer backed up. Big and small, all the time.
And they always called late at night or very early in the morning. This was before texting and email was common, etc.
My brother was paying me to do this, I would have done it for free but he insisted, but I was so glad when he sold that place.
I dealt with everything promptly. A family friend ran a property mgmt business and his crews did all the work promptly and billed us direct. People still always seemed annoyed and dissatisfied. Never again.
Rentoids are usually disgusting.
I’m somewhat “glad” I’m not renting a place owned by some rich chucklefuck, but one owned by a company. I know, sounds weird, but at least my rent money is going to something useful, since they employ their electricians, plumbers etc., hire a cleaning firm to clean the stairwell, and have a website where I can report problems, look at my energy consumption, stuff like that.
Right, but do the faux revolutionaries in this thread know the difference between a good landlord and a bad one? They seem to enjoy basking in righteous anger and not to care for nuances.
Good landlords hate bad landlords too. There’s a lot of common ground to be shared.
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That’s how a mortgage works. But the point is that after those 30 years you have a million dollar asset. That you had your tenants pay for.
For a regular plebs like us that’s not a winning proposition because we can’t have our money tied up for 30 years but for people who don’t need their money liquid, it’s free real estate
It’s hard to get a good return on your investment in residential real estate without using leverage.
For instance: You don’t buy one place outright. You buy 5 with 20% down. You may not have positive cash flow, but at long as it isn’t negative not only do you get all the increase in value, you also get more equity every month as the tenants pay your mortgages.
If you bought it outright and over some period of time the tenants have paid your entire investment and the price of the property doubles, you doubled your money. If you buy 5 and over some period of time the tenants pay your mortgage and initial investment and the properties have doubled in value you have increased your initial investment 10X. And before the big expensive renovations come in, you can sell and buy something else if you’re not equipped to deal with that.
Also if you are just breaking even to get free property but you want to start getting passive income, after a few years you can refi to a longer term and lower your mortgage payments to get in the black every month.
This isn’t advice, fuck anybody buying up single family homes to rent, just showing one way they can generate both wealth and passive income for nothing. Literally nothing if they’re using a property management company.
Fuck anybody buying up single family homes to rent. I know I already said that, but it bears repeating.
Fuck anybody buying up single family homes to rent.
It was worth one more.
Guidelines for buying rental properties say they should pay off in 10 years.
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Buying here is cheaper (1600 per sq meter in the commie blocks part of the city) and rent is about the same. Outside of those blocks you’d usually get copper and no real insulation, with street parking. A brand new apartment in a nice place might net you 15-20 eur per square meter.
Of course, I live in the ass end of Europe where wages are half of what they are in the west so it makes sense our rents, food costs, etc are higher. The peasants shouldn’t have too much to their names.
Tenants also pay any loans associated with the apartment building repairs, or the repair fund collection, not by law but because apartments are in demand and tenants are not. The law actually says it’s the responsiblity of the owner, but there’s literally nothing saying that responsibility can’t be shifted.
The big money’s isn’t in the rent, the rent is just to pay the mortgage and upkeep. It’s that you’re getting in debt that someone else is paying for you while they gaurd your asset which is only gaining in value, you then sell that somewhere in the futute.
On average, the same amount of money dropped into the NASDAQ will have much better overall returns. Real estate ROI is about 4% per year, where the stock market has held close to 11% over the long haul nearly a century.
For small-time landlords, it’s often about “I have a place for me or a family member to live if things go bad”. For bigger ones, it’s the tax-shelter and the low volitility of real estate, as well as diversity in case you need to sell when their stock is down.
If it’s a poor investment, why do it?
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I’m on your side mostly but the property prices going up in those 30 years would net you a fortune alone. You could likely sell it as is and triple your money
Wouldn’t that depend a lot on the area?
Well yes it would but not entirely.
The old saying ‘buy land because they aren’t making anymore of it’ is true. As the world population grows, owning large amounts of land will be scarcer and scarcer. Most young people can’t afford a home in any western nation across the world and it’ll only get worse the world over as time goes on and the population continues to grow.
Some areas are losing a lot of their value. Waiting for population growth to fix that is playing the really long game
Being a landlord isn’t a way for someone who doesn’t have wealth to acquire it. It’s a way to park your existing wealth in quickly appreciating assets preferably purchased from other losers when they lose their asses and collect monthly rent too.
If on day one you have 700k and you purchase an existing property and in 30 days after you rent it out your property is still worth 700k and you are now ahead of the game in 30 days not 30 years.
If you purchased at a reasonable time a year later its worth 750 and you’ve collected 84k 1% of property value per month.
Most owners are in the top 10% to start with.
quickly appreciating assets preferably purchased from other losers when they lose their asses and collect monthly rent too.
I wouldn’t say quickly appreciating, though. It’s a fairly slow growth rate for someone with that kind of money. They diversify into real estate because it creates some tax protections (your costs) and it’s fairly stable. Like buying into a terrible small business, but one that magically won’t fail. The things that could cause total loss to real estate are usually handled in standard insurance, unlike a business that can just tank.
The thing is, as you and the other person said, it’s all about the big companies who own tons of real estate AND the big companies that manage rental properties.
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My landlord’s two brothers who inherited a bunch of properties from Daddy. One of them lives in Scottsdale and the other in Hawaii. It really gets my goat knowing that 1 out of every 3 dollars I make goes to some overprivileged daddy’s removed boy. I probably pay their golf membership or marina docking fees.
Thats the american dream isnt it? To be exploited until you do the exploiting? God I love America
“Ferengi workers don’t want to stop the exploitation. We want to find a way to become the exploiters!”
What’s the problem? If you don’t buy a house you need to rent one, houses aren’t free. Yeah those owners never worked for it, but isn’t that the case with every rich kid? Why don’t you buy a crappy house you can fix up yourself?
lol just buy a house and stop complaining it’s so easy, said the completely out of touch boomer
Because I have 200 bucks to my name
That’s strictly a you-problem.
Pull yourself up by your ball sack
Step 1: have an extra house
Step 1: Use the equity you’ve built up in your primary dwelling to put a down payment on a second house, which you can rent out. Congratulations, you now have a second job to fill your evenings and weekends.
Step 2: Hope like hell you get a decent tenant who pays the rent on time and doesn’t destroy your property.
Step 3: Pay all of the taxes, mortgage payments, maintenance costs, repairs, legal fees, etc., which the rent will just barely cover. Of course, most of the mortgage payment goes to the bank as interest.
Step 4: Keep crossing your fingers that you don’t rent to someone who will destroy your property, fail to pay rent, sue you, or cause any other major headaches.
Step 5: After 20 years of doing this, you have now paid off that second house. Yay!
Cool, now try being the renter who paid off your mortgage for 20 years and has nothing to show for it.
The system is exploitative to both sides if they have low capital. The only winners are the capitalists who already have more than enough.
They wouldn’t be landlords if they didn’t think they wouldn’t make money off of it. However the petite bourgeoisie are often squeezed by the haut bourgeoisie, and if that happens enough we get fascism as class warfare on the part of the big beautiful boaters and car dealership owners.
I agree there is a problem where people that rent and want to own can’t because of affordability. However, renting is less risky. Renters aren’t on the hook for major problems with a property. Imagine a leak goes undiscovered and causes major damage and mold to your apartment. What do you do as a renter? You move out, find a new place, and maybe even sue your landlord for damages and health impact.
What does your landlord do? Try to find enough money to cover the repairs, vacancy, and hire a lawyer.
Let’s not act like renting isn’t without its benefits. I think the factor most people overlook when they think about owning property is RISK. Risk means you could lose something or be liable. Renters have limited risk. If you’re taking on risk, you should be rewarded for it, otherwise you wouldn’t do it. Also, the reward is supposed to make you resilient to risks materializing. If the reward isn’t big enough, then when a risk materializes into a real problem, you won’t have enough capital to recover from it and you’ll go bankrupt.
I can’t even imagine how devastating it would be to have to sell my second home.
I mean, it’s more than that though. You could sell the property at a loss or have it foreclosed on. Selling incurs fees of roughly 6-8% of the selling price… so, even if you sell it for what you bought it for, you could still be in the red. You might walk away $100ks in debt.
You can be jealous of people in that position of having multiple properties all you want, but ask yourself if you were in their position whether you would somehow respond differently to the incentives and risks?
If you had enough money to buy multiple properties what would you do?
I would do what I do now and invest in companies making products I really care about. I wouldn’t own two houses. To me, that’s unethical. I understand that not everyone considers it that way, but you should also understand that I do.
Who rents for 20 years and then acts all surprised that they don’t own the house? If your end goal is to own a house, start by buying a house. If you can afford to rent and pay off someone else’s mortgage then you can certainly afford to pay off your own mortgage.
You certainly can, right? But that doesn’t mean you’ll qualify for a loan.
That and I can’t save up enough for a down payment cause rent/inflation/student loans/car payment. I was a teacher for 6 years and couldn’t save a penny. If I wanted to make more money I needed a master’s degree which I also couldn’t save up to afford.
How is someone supposed to save for a mortgage when they’re busy paying off someone else’s mortgage?
How is that the landlord’s fault?
Well, because as a class they raise the cost of land, meaning that many peoples only option is to rent. And then you have to pay off their mortgage for them.
Note that in the USSR apartments were 5 percent of income. That is what the actual cost of maintaining homes for people is, when you remove all the rent seeking and property speculation.
There is a huge difference between small and large landlords. The example I gave was clearly related to small landlords. If you have two houses and two mortgages and are doing your own maintenance, you aren’t driving up the cost of housing significantly. If you are a small landlord, as I’ve described, the only “profit” you’re making goes straight into the payments on that mortgage, most of which is interest for the bank. Also, those “profits” won’t be realized for 20+ years. Of course, I’m talking about averages over time. Clearly, housing is unbalanced right now, and bubbles create exceptions.
Large landlords, hedge fund investors, foreign investors, large AirBnB investors… these are a different story. They are the ones on large amounts of property, creating artificial scarcity, jacking up rents to unreasonable levels, etc.
When you find yourself comparing to the USSR I think you’ve already lost your argument. Since it boils down to “eradicate capitalism and rent becomes cheaper”. Maybe it does and everything else becomes a lot shittier too.
The problem is not the landlord. They made it possible that there was a house to rent.
The problem are other voters who prevent zoning laws that allow property that is cheap enough to buy.
Landlords do not build houses, they own houses. Saying that they provide housing is equivalent to saying Jeff Bezos delivered your latest Amazon package.
Owning things is not creating things.
Do you disagree with something that I wrote or are you reaffirming my point?
This part:
They made it possible that there was a house to rent.
Obviously.
Well, didn’t they? They manage the risk that the construction of the house is profitable. You cannot build houses everywhere.
If you don’t want landlords then you need public housing. That’s where the voters come in.
If you are a renter, there is a big probability you move a lot, and buying is simply not so convenient due to your current situation. But it is unfortunate that many people also can’t afford to buy a house or apartment and are only able to rent. What are you, as a landlord, supposed to do if you are living paycheck to paycheck with the mortgage you took for the apartment that you rent ?
Depends on the country. Apparently most people in Germany rent because that’s just the way things are over there. I would say in the UK that generally people only rent if they’re living somewhere on a relatively short term basis. Otherwise they might either buy their own property or apply for social housing depending on their income level.
You forgot the step where wealthy investors & hedge funds crash an artificially inflated market, you go bankrupt and they swoop in to buy the property from their friends at the bank for half of what you paid for it.
Using equity from current property to buy a new property? LOL
My friend, you are begging for pain… but appreciate it. Live that grind til you get repo’d
People do this, it’s called “refi and roll.” The idea is to find properties that pay more in rent than they cost to upkeep.
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That seems like a completely sustainable aspiration for everyone!
Landlords do a lot! They own the house. They move your money from your account to their account. And once in a while, they spend some of your money on fixing the sink that you pay them to use.
You have to have money to make money. It’s just that first step that’s the problem…
Save money
Or just work for a living
You don’t really even have to save money if you’re smart with the first time homebuyers credits and grants.
ITT leeches saying “actually consuming your blood is providing a vital service and takes a lot of work”
Or worse, theyre just aspiring to be leeches
ITT angry communist noises
Holy fuck the “everything I remotely disagree with is communism” shit in this website is seriously annoying, did I time travel to 1950s America or something. Like I think lemmy might legitimately be the worst for it. it’s putting me off coming here.
Naww, you regular traveled to modern America.
Are the 50’s making a comeback over there? should i expect Elvis impersonators returning to the mainstream or something?
You’re on lemmy.world which is an anti-communiet instance.
Yes, successful land reform movements have historically been lead by angry communists, thank you for pointing that out for anyone who might be interested in a little land reform that their best bet is to look into communist strategies of land reform.
ITT: Poor, downtrodden
leecheslandlords talking about how hard it is to be a landlord, when the easiest way to end their suffering is to just sell their extra fucking house(s).sadly if you try to be a good landlord and make a slim margin, you’ll get dumped a huge repair bill/tax increase/other expense and now you’re running the appartment at a loss. At that point you either sell it to a company willing to exploit it or you have to be less nice to your tenants and ignore repairs or charge more. Most people choose the first which is why we end up with terrible landlords.
aside: heard someone in that exact situation running low income housing, on a phone call with an expert talking to the government. The expert said “any prudent management would raise the rents the maximum allowed amount”
They have once a year paperwork to do and still bitch and moan and they still call it work.
It’s disgusting.
The one “person” I know also drags tenants to court over stupid shit (he always loses 🤣)
Where I live landlords (if they’re renting directly at least) are in a big legal responsibility over all kinds of stuff. The easier way is to rent through some company that deals with the renter.
Landlords actually do a lot of work. Maintenance and dealing with tenants can easily become a full time job if you have multiple properties. A lot of people buy rentals thinking it’s “passive income” and then end up working twice as hard as before.
They’re supposed to do all those things but most don’t. I’m a condo super and the owners who own and rent multiple units are the worst. Their tenants are always calling me about every issue, and I have to remind them that I deal with the common areas, not the interior of their unit unless there’s a flood. Those landlords tend to own multiple units and just assume I will deal with their issues, but I won’t. When you own, you’re the super, manager, admin, etc. But most landlords I’ve encountered just wanna collect the check
They also assume all the risk of the property too. Tenants can leave as they please but landlords are stuck with the property if the market turns.
Eh, I wouldn’t say the housing market on the whole is fickle in the same way as as the stock market. But for things like property damage, the risk is definitely on you
No one forced them to be a landlord. Tenants have very little choice. Why is there even a comparison here?
Sounds like a good problem to have
Which hasn’t, ever.
So the 2008 economic crisis never happened? Where I live (Europe) houses are actually going down in value right now too.
Oh wow boo hoo, they have so much risk 😔 they have an entire house that they can sell at any time, who someone else is paying the mortgage of. Oh, the horror! If the market should crash they’ll lose the equity another person paid!
Really the landlords are the victims here, not the tenants paying their mortgage for them plus a little extra for profits. Clearly the tenants have committed the crime of not having good enough credit for a loan, or the crime of not having enough for a down payment, so they aren’t worthy of owning property.
No no it’s the landlord who has the real problems, because they could ein a shaky financial situation of “selling the second house iown” if the market dips!
It’s genuinely not easy, both my parents have owned rental properties at some point in their lives, as a retirement investment. I’d never consider a rental property as an investment myself as a result of what I’ve seen tenants do to a property.
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Sir this is a reddit clone please join the landlord hate circlejerk or GET OUT OF HERE
Yeah, these memes are made by kids who have never actually worked at all, much less at upkeep on a property they don’t live at. They probably whine about taking out the trash every week and beg their mom for new games while thinking they’re independent somehow.
Apparently you think Adam Smith is an immature child.
Who?
It’s not my job to educate you.
You expect too much of me to succeed where others have clearly already failed.
The best part of lemmy is that douchebags like you out yourself so freely, it makes quick blocking so much more efficient.
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Shelter is a need, owning women as property is not. It is disgusting to compare people complaining about landlords and people complaining women won’t be their possessions.
I like that crab face, lol. Which cartoon is it from?
Why are landlords getting so much more hate than other parasites? There isn’t much difference between them and business owners. No one should be able to profit from ownership alone.
There is actually, being a landlord is more of a feudal relationship within the framework of capitalism.
Now, both lords and capitalists should be
talked to about their destructive behavior and have their private property repatriated by the working class through legitimate state mechanisms, but there is a difference.
Really? Nothing?
Repairing property you already own isn’t a job.
What?
They seem to provide some kind of vakue to you, otherwise you could just buy a house.
So apparently buying a house, furnishing it, maintaining it, complying with various codes and regulations, and making the house available for someone to live in for a period of time for a sum of money is “parasitic”. Not sure why, or why the same logic wouldn’t apply to anything of value someone makes available to others for a fee.
It’s a very US-centric view because their states seemingly doesn’t enforce rules and regulations while also not having rent control. Creating a situation where landlords can demand pretty much whatever they want in a housing crisis while also not spending their revenue on actually maintaining the apartments they rent out.
The complaint is fair. For them.
You wouldn’t do this if it weren’t profitable. The tenant will end up paying for the furnishings and maintenance many times over in rent, and you will get an appreciating asset that you are gradually paying off the debt for. You’re not getting paid for management, you’re profiting from holding capital in a system designed to benefit those that have capital, and seeking rent for the ownership of that capital.
I wouldn’t hold it against someone in this system we have if they end up buying a property to safeguard their money, but let’s not pretend that landlords are not a parasitic relationship that reduce the amount of housing stock available for people to buy and act as a middle man between a tenant and a property management company.
Why on earth do you think anyone would rent out a house, or pay for all the ancillaries - furnishings, repairs, insurance, legal etc. if they didn’t get a return on their investment, time and effort? Do you also accuse Marriott of being parasites for renting rooms? Or Hertz for renting cars? They do these things because they spent a lot of money to provide something of value that people can utilize for a period of time but they still expect to make money.
Renting is a business. It’s as “parasitic” as any other business were a person pays for something with money and receives something in return. If you are not prepared to rent then don’t. There are other options to having a roof over your head. Buying a house would be one option but there are others.
If you equate rental cars and hotel rooms as the same as shelter used every day I don’t know how you are going to begin to understand the other person’s argument. I hope you can educate yourself about this.
Yeah how dare I make an obvious point that people rent houses to make money. They aren’t charities. It doesn’t make them parasites or evil. They’re not responsible for the price of houses. They’re not responsible for social housing. They’re not responsible if you cannot afford what they charge to cover their costs & make money.
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I’ve rented plenty in my life. Then I bought a house and paid it off. Sobbing that people who rent properties actually want to make money or that they’re all “parasites” is laughable nonsense.
“Buying a house” lol, imagine being so out of touch you think that’s an option for people who can barely handle rent.
Imagine being so out of touch that you think people who rent property should do so out of the goodness of their hearts.
Except nobody is saying that.
They’re saying landlording shouldn’t be possible. That the provision of shelter should be done by some other means.
Because of nasty landlords happy to evict people or raise rents, Reddit and now Lemmy are full of people saying all landlords are awful morlocks feeding off the pain of everyone. Like everything else nowadays there’s no middle ground in the common arguments either way. Landlords evil, renters saints.
This is a misunderstanding though. People aren’t complaining about individuals who happen to be landlords being nasty. They’re making a systemic complaint about rent-seeking.
A landlord can be a perfectly polite and pleasant person. They’re still engaging in rent-seeking. And that’s the complaint.
ITT People who vote third party and expect things to change
Lol, I’m not sure what that has to do with this post, but imagine voting for the same two parties and expecting change.
