Social media seems to be laughing its ass off about this tragedy, is it because the folks at burning man are perceived as frivolous hippies or something? Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure. I guess all some people know is the sensationalized drugs and sex. A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.
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It’s also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event. Whatever it was to start, it’s effectively glamping now.
Sure, there are definitely some genuinely good people there, lower middle class, saved up and took their only vacation time they get all year to spend a few days there, and it sucks this happened to them. If those people end up in the hospital and the shitty insurance they get from work does fuck all to help mitigate the expenses, I’ll even get angry on their behalf.
But the majority of them? They spent a lot of money, money most people don’t have the luxury of getting to spend, on a pointless self-indulgent festival in the fucking desert, and this time it’s come back to bite them. My sympathy is extremely limited.
They’ll be miserable for a few days, get out, dry off, and go back to their easy lives. Their affairs are taken care of back home, they can miss days of work, their hospital stays will be covered, etc.
It’s kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy. What happened to the poor people that lived there is the tragedy.
Edit: Also just want to point out OP is trying to call this a “tragedy” when there’s only been one suspected death, the cause of which is unknown as it hasn’t even been confirmed yet, but the overall mood is positive, and by all accounts everything is being managed. They’re trapped, not dying.
It’s also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event.
I’m pretty sure it’s been that way for at least 20 years…
The only people I’ve personally known to go to Burning Man was a rich kid in high school who went with his dad who was a marketing high-up at a very big tech company. Always came back talking about trying drugs and seeing some crazy shit, but then on Tuesday it’s right back to full days of pointless meetings I guess. I’ve never been and I frankly don’t ever care to, but that alone gave me the feeling that Burning Man is where tech suits go to play hippie for the weekend, and that always felt lame as fuck.
I went a couple of times years ago when it was just starting to turn into what you describe. Had a great time, but it quickly priced me out. Now, it sounds like an influencer-laden hellscape. The addition of premium plug and play sites was the nail in the coffin. That said, a lot of the old time Burners are fucking amazing, creative, resourceful, and helpful people.
It’s kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy.
Blame sensationalist media on this one, but it’s a misconception. Very few victims spent a lot of money on Fyre Festival. Most got tickets which were purported to be “all inclusive” for <$1500 USD (a pretty good deal, had it not been fraudulent). A handful of tickets sold for the $12K price which ended up in the headlines, but the standard price was a fraction of that. There’s a good summary of this discrepancy here: https://youtu.be/UBPg5ftCMv8
completely agree with this take, also OP screams american excepcionalism.
Wouldn’t every event or festival be an exercise in waste and excess? May be e we should just stay at home forever and work
I’ve heard smaller, local burns are better experiences now and are less wasteful. Just like most things, the original spirit and intent of an event gets lost when it becomes bigger and commercialized.
Well it being in the middle of a desert makes it more wasteful.
But yes giant festivals that encourage a lot of travel and needlessly burning things are in general wasteful and potentially excessive. There are other leisure activities, so discouraging festivals is not equivalent to working nonstop.
Isn’t unnecessarily lighting stuff on fire kind of the point?
Fireworks?
They build and set ablaze a giant man! It’s eponymous!
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Burning Man ‘promotes’ anti-consumerism and communal effort, however attending requires significant financial resources and costs that can and do exclude (most) people, it’s living hyprocracy, and an excellent example of capitalism corrupting grass roots ideals. honestly is an absolute joke of a festival.
No it doesn’t. Poor as dirt and go almost every year. So many idiots in this thread have no idea what they’re talking about. Just parroting the media.
And yet you spend like Bilbo Baggins?
What if I told you you could be less poor than dirt if you didn’t buy overpriced festival tickets?
There is a similar thing not far from where I live. Through an unlucky friend, then the neighbour of their festival grounds, I got to discover the organizers’ ‘ideals’ and ‘ethical and ecological approach’ first hand. In short: it was about money. And more money. And they managed to turn a large reservoir into a dying punch bowl of acid, piss and shit within only a decade. I suspect Burning Man to be the same, considering the ticket prices. The fact that some poor fools with their heart and soul intact save their little money to visit this monstrosity just makes it more sad.
I don’t actively engage in Schadenfreude much, but I do carry a little of it in my heart. If people think flying or driving very far away for Entertainment, and bringing thousands of people into an otherwise quiet place is okay for the wildlife there, and can be in any way an ecological thing, they have understood very little about ecology. And now also ignored by most: the destruction that happens by the thousands of ‘poor humans who just wanted to have fun’ trampling through the last remnants of life in a drought stricken place.
We are not alone on this planet. Invading a place with our idea of fun is very damaging. We can party perfectly well at home. If home happens to be bleak and sad maybe we should work on that first before invading quiet places.
Just as a counterpoint, the area burning man is held in is one of the most ecologically inert places you could go. There’s no vegetation and the only life to speak of is brine shrimp eggs, which are about as threatened as mosquito larvae.
There’s still a lot of trash that gets left behind which can travel with wind, but as far as impact on the land goes, it’s likely significantly less invasive than your local county fair. There’s just nothing out there for them to damage.
It’s like $400 for a ticket, and then the rest of the cost is getting there, food, water, shelter, etc. You can pay as little or as much as you want to accomplish those things. Plenty of people drive there and stayed in tents. I don’t see how it’s any different than camping for a few days.
check again it was up to $575 this year
Ive never been to burning man. I went to Coachella a LLOOONNGG time ago when it was hippies rolling around in the dust. Coachella ain’t that anymore, it’s instagram rich kids and tech bros. I assume the same thing has happened to burning man.
Some of the worst people I’ve worked with are “burners”.
There’s apparently a private jet at burning man this year that was taking off and landing constantly so that people could fuck on the jet - it’s fall of Rome style excess in a broken world where most people’s basic needs are not met on an enormous scale.
Your statement is fairly tone deaf to the basic objective reality of the “party”, OP. The frustrated people at the bottom are feeling a bit of catharsis in the money burning factory closing for a day while they starve and watch.
So like “let’s fly on private jets to a nice swiss resort to discuss climate change”
So you think it’s okay to laugh at people dying?
Burners by and large are dipshits, but no one reasonable is laughing at anyone dying.
Did you miss all the memes about the billionaire dying in the submarine a couple months back? People like laughing at dark humor.
Hot take: fundamentally, yes. The simple fact that people are dying does not render something unfunny.
That said, no one has died yet (well, one person, but that was ruled unrelated to the flooding).
Why wouldn’t it be?
aside from the obvious “rich people exploiting the environment with their hippy party that costs $200 for their cheapest tickets,” I saw a video online that brought up a good point that I never considered. The cost of lumber has increased exponentially in the past 3 years alone, jumping to nearly $1700 per 1000 feet at its peak in 2021, but staying between $400 and $600 per 1000 feet in recent months (still high compared to say 10 years ago.) And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there’s little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste. That, along with the climate change protesters being police brutalized just before the event, really puts a sour taste in people’s mouths. Especially in a time where “once in a lifetime” weather events seem to be back-to-back.
economic data from: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber
Tickets cost about 10x that. I was interested back when it was a cool art exchange, freedom event. But SO many people flock to it as a giant party that it’s become restrictive unless your volunteering or bringing an exhibit.
From old burners I have talked to, the entire experience has completely changed. Alcohol used to be frowned upon, now it’s common place.
Sincerely with rocket launches now being a daily thing i’m not very worried by that burning lumber.
Rockets mostly use hydrogen as fuel, burning wood is way more polluting than burning hydrogren.
Yesterday in the US it was labour day, 100 of millions of Americans has a BBQ many using coal and wood the impact of burning man is insignificant in comparison
Also John Wilson tried to go shoot at the event and after compiling hours of footage was told that he couldn’t use any of it because there was some exclusive licensed coverage provider for the event.
And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there’s little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste.
That’s not really how plants work.
Photosynthesis turns co2 + water into sugar + oxygen. Cellular respiration turns sugar + oxygen into co2 + water.
The total co2 absorbed by a plant is exactly equal to the amount of co2 used to make all the sugar, cellulose, etc. the plant currently has. Digestion, decomposition, fires etc. undo that.
A mature forest or lawn is carbon neutral: new growth is balanced out by decomposition of old growth.
Distance to plants doesn’t matter. What matters is if and how the trees they’re burning are being replanted or replaced. .
Thanks for the correction. That helps me better understand how counteracting pollution works
Burning wood just releases the co2 absorbed when growing it.
I’ve been to burning man. I sit a little bit on both sides of the fence having not felt like I totally fit in there when I went, but also understanding the original mindset behind it.
At this point, I feel the backlash against Burning Man generally is a bit overblown. These folks are at a festival (yeah burners, I called it a festival because that’s the word we use for such things in the English language) and they’re having a good time. Who cares. Most folks who go have good intentions and just want to connect and share something. Many artists work for years and months, for free, to have their pieces featured. Some of that art is incredible! My favorite parts though were literally just an astronomy camp where I looked through a pretty big telescope, held some billion year old meteor fragments in my hand, and listened to hours of lectures from science nerds about the cosmos. I also watched a magic show and got fed bacon by some drunk guy at his camp at 7 am who just wanted company. I personally havent drank at burning man, but it is a party. There are all manner of things at burning man, anything you might want and some things you might not… from talks on how to build a sustainable green energy house to orgy tents to camps offering free ice cream and French toast.
On the other hand, burners can take this shit a bit too seriously and get wrapped up in the experience to the point of being annoying. One guy in my camp scolded me for asking too much about his normal life. He was a tech worker and apparently wanted to pretend that he wasn’t when he was at burning man. How ridiculous to think standing in the desert should mean you can’t talk about your actual life. Another time I pulled out my camera (aka phone) to take a photo of some art and some random chick yelled at me to put my phone away. As if we all bought DSLRs and Polaroids for this event because it’s more authentic that way, and as if the folks that did totally aren’t going to go home and put it on Instagram anyway. There were plenty of women just posing on the playa for their photographer “friends.” I doubt they all just put them in a family photo album for the memories.
That said, Burning Man is a unique event and most folks are just trying to share and view some of the most unique art in the world and connect with others. At my age, I generally find most festivals annoying and burning man has plenty of people to be annoyed at, but it is what it is and frankly I don’t know that it deserves more hate than something like Bonaroo or Coachella. At least Burning Man is full of folks trying to be more than mere passive consumers of entertainment. The mandate is for you to be a participant. God forbid you attend an event where you’re asked to do more than consume, but rather give, anything you want or feel others could benefit from.
If there were 10 other events like burning man, I’d say we should look for the best one, but it is the only event like this. That said, as time goes on, it needs to change. Burning the art has to stop, for instance. Also, some of the more snobbish cultural aspects of the event could die off and I wouldn’t cry.
Not sure I’ll ever go back, but its mostly because I’m too old for this shit and seriously get off my lawn. But, I got the idea and, I won’t hate on others who feel drawn to it, unless they’re insufferable.
Well put. I’ve been twice, 25 years ago and 8 years ago. Some aspects are really cool. Burners can also be insufferable, especially when they make it their entire identity IMO. I will never go back either. Also too old for that shit.
Yeah my SOs mom took us and still goes. We aren’t wealthy and usually get discounts. His mom saves up every year for it. The only thing about it I don’t like is how dirty it is and how hot otherwise it’s really fun and I don’t do drugs or alcohol. Fire shooting giant metal flowerbeds and moving castles.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it
Aren’t there smaller burning man festivals?
A lot of the time, people hear about Burning Man in the context of which privileged asshole grifter attended it. Elizabeth Holmes, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, etc other billionaires or influencers… And it is described as “tech bros’ favorite party” in the media.
So, given that impression of it, I can see how the default reaction to it failing is unsympathetic.
So strange to me. I have never been but the people I have met who have gone multiple times and loved it have made me think it’s a force for good.
My first exposure was a wedding I DJ’d, most of the people there were friends of the bride and groom from burning man and they are burned (ha) in my memory as the type of people who go. Even the “pastor” who performed the ceremony. Bride is a travel writer, husband is a doctor. All of the bridal party. Extremely intelligent, kind, funny humble humans all. I played EDM music. Best wedding I ever did.
Well far be it from me to judge anyone at a music festival but I think for many burning man has some bourgeoisie, fake hippie sorta connotations?
Yep, exactly my confusion…this makes it ok to take joy at what happened? I think the perception is wrong but even if not…it’s fucked up.
When leftists say eat the rich they don’t mean it in a nice way.
Are burning man people rich? Not being a smartass, I’m just trying to understand the perception.
Higher up you were talking about a travel writer marrying a doctor. Those motherfuckers are rich.
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I don’t take joy in suffering of anyone. My only experience of the Burning man festival is on the hilarious episode of “Malcom in the Middle.” Also, rain in the desert is often a mixed blessing
I always think of the Reno 911 episode, that was hilarious as well.
Generally, they’re not. I’d say it’s an inclusive crowd that likes to backbite each other. I don’t particularly love burners, but this level of distain is ridiculous. A lot of art collective types and their patrons.
who me? i’m just a poor lower class fine art patron.
Not really what I’m saying. If you don’t know the type, you don’t know the type. Bunch of fire spinners and Etsy sellers working middle class jobs.
Nuance is a dead concept to an online leftist.
Catch em at a bar and they’re generally better versions of themselves.
I think - correctly or incorrectly - a lot of people perceive the typical Burning Man attendee nowadays as being a rich and/or famous person who is somewhere between indifferent to + amused by the suffering of other people less fortunate than they. And - again, not saying this is correct - they perceive this as being more of an annoying/inconvenient/uncomfortable thing (lots of wallowing in filth, but only 1 death AFAIK) than a bona fide natural disaster; totally different order of magnitude from what just happened in Florida, for example, or Hawaii.
So it’s less serious than a hurricane or flood or whatever in a populated area, and affects much more deserving people; if, heaven forbid, a bomb went off and hundreds of Burning Man attendees died it would be a very different story, and certainly in that case I don’t think any decent person would laugh about it, but a bunch of rich assholes stuck in the mud playing “Survivor” for a week is much more farce than tragedy.
Most people don’t even think about burning man at all.
And well, the people of the internet tend to be less fond of more wealthy people, like those that can afford to spend thousands to party in the desert. I may not want them to die just because they went to burning man, but I will laugh at the world essentially raining on their parade.
I don’t get it but ok.
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Rain at a festival isn’t.
That’s pretty much stripping all relevant context from the situation. The rains are absolutely a big deal for a special campout-celebration that’s held in a fairly hostile natural location, with ground that becomes disastrous in terms of movement when there’s heavy rain.
It would be one thing if BM was just a frivolous celebration, but it’s heavily art-oriented, creative in nature, and meaningful for a whole bunch of folks who are trying to engage in something special once a year. So it’s not The Holocaust, no, but more than just the loss of the festival, there’s still some real danger going on for hundreds of folks right now.
BM
I approve of this abbreviation.
Fine, but calling it a tragedy takes away from actual tragedies.
For who? I understood that when he called it a “tragedy,” it was heavily based on his POV and emotions at the time. That’s about as innocuous as it gets, and isn’t going to change anything across the world IMO.
The word “literally” used to have a specific meaning, but now it annoyingly has the exact opposite meaning of its original. The word “pentultimate” was supposed to mean “second to last” but then it turned into “super-ultimate”
No one anything changes the word… Until it does. It would be nice if words can keep their meaning without getting diluted so when you really need it, you have it.
Yeap, I understand those sentiments, and am fairly picky about language myself.
Still, in cases like these, I have to bow to the fact that language is and always was fluid & ever-changing. That, and the fact that we must pick our battles in life. *shrug*
I know old burners, none of them went this year, nor the last few years. They have other smaller events they go to now that retains the old feel of Burning Man. It is very much frivolous now.
Okay, what makes it frivolous now?
Alcohol is common now, the art is ignored by a lot of people, people just aren’t as generally sociable. From what I can see, it’s morphed into something that’s less about sharing and showing art, into showing off and partying. I am not a habitual burner, so leaning on stories and photos from friends, and maybe the prior years were just off years, and I missed the year that brought it back to its roots… but somehow I doubt it.
the art is ignored by a lot of people, people just aren’t as generally sociable. From what I can see, it’s morphed into something that’s less about sharing and showing art, into showing off and partying.
Ugh, yeah, that sounds plenty disappointing. :S
When you camp on a lakebed, you’re going to be camping in a lake sometimes.
AFAIK it’s a dried-up lake bed that rarely experiences this kind of thing during BM week.
Maybe I’m wrong, tho.
rarely
And yes, when rain rains on a dried lake bed (playa, not “beach” in spanish), you get lake.
Climate change means the cilmate will not stay the same.
It’s rained a bit while I was there years back, but not to this extent. Not that it wasn’t always a possibility though.
Climate change means the cilmate will not stay the same.
Pard, you sure as shootin’ got that part right.
And I’ve barely been following this year’s event at all. If heavy rains were indeed predicted, then it seems to me that at the very least, the organisers have some pretty colossal questions to answer.
Huh?
We can’t predict weather past about 7 days at best. “We” meaning humanity, “weather” meaning weather (not climate). I am pretty sure we can’t forecast how climate will change.
But the organizers of the event having pretty colossal questions to answer makes little sense to me in regards to flooding. BM was held on the beach in california until the gathering got too big and moved to the desert. The BLM gives BRC (BM) a permit each year (so far) and limits the population - they also controll ingress and egress to BRC. The gate to BM is sometimes closed whilst people are still in line, because the population has reached capacity. Population being something on the order of 75k each year, a lot les than coachella.
But again, burning man is a temporary event that creates a temporary city (BRC, black rock city), each year, come rain or snow. You really cannot come to this event and expect everything to go exactly as planned. There is medical (free medical, actually) there, but that doesn’t mean you can count on them to save your life. You should bring 1 gallon of water per person per day you plan on attending, at least, you should bring more meds than you think you’d need, etc… etc… It’s survival.
Heads will not roll because the rain happened. Nothing new about being told to shelter in place - when it rains even a bit on the playa, this happens. It just hasn’t happened to this extent, but there’s always a first for everything.
Much of what I’ve read confirms things you’re saying, and to be clear, I’ve never been there myself. I’ve only read about the event, including first-hand accounts, and seen video footage.
My point about the rain is that in the immediate days preceding the event, surely the organisers had a chance to examine the weather report and realise that at the very least, a strong advisory should have been sent out, or maybe even the festival cancelled. Also, is it possible they didn’t know how treacherous the soil there could get with heavy rain?
Brother, Burning Man is an excuse for a bunch of people to do a fuckton of drugs out in the middle of the desert.
Burning Man has never been anything other than a monument to excess. It is, if anything, a poignant statement regarding humanity.
Am I happy people are struggling? No. But I’d be lying if I didn’t think they deserve it. Maybe the survivors will spend their free time better. Probably not, it’ll just end up meaning poor people are allowed less and less in coming years.
I’m not debating that drug use, alcohol and sex don’t go on there, but what consenting adults do is their business IMO. For that matter, huge swaths of the rural and semi-rural States seem to be given over to that sort of thing, too, and I think that’s of far more concern than a one week festival, brother.
Regardless, I’ve seen plenty of footage and pics, and there’s undeniably loads of creativity, art projects, chance meetings between interesting people, and the tribal-experiential aspect going on at BM. I happen to think all that stuff’s pretty damn cool, and I feel no need to dismiss the whole thing just because I’m on some moral high ground from afar.
“Art” flocks to places like that because of rich people with too much money doing dumb shit… like partying in the middle of the desert.
Furthermore what makes you think what I’ve said would result in me not condemning those in the south as well? What is this whataboutist bullshit?
I’m not even going to touch the “tribal experiential” bit.
“Art” flocks to places like that because of rich people with too much money doing dumb shit… like partying in the middle of the desert.
Sounds like a pretty facile, cynical, and plain inaccurate way of looking at the tradition:
These solid human beings with strong morals, financially responsible with a career, upstanding members of society having their day ruined is not a tragedy? 😫
I actually think a lot is the opposite. If you think an event like this, attended by the likes of Bezos and Musk, is countercultural, or even “brings positivity into the world”, I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Of course most Burners have jobs, it’s a techbro’s dream. Plus, tickets are more expensive than they were in the old days, so real hippies can’t go. If people want to laugh at the suffering of rich people who cosplay as revolutionary, I’m generally ok with that. One big caveat: I’m very sorry someone died, and I don’t think mocking that’s cool, especially if we don’t know anything about them.
Fuck these rich twats
Apparently middle class Americans are now “rich twats”?
It’s mostly rich twats with a few upper middle class twats.
middle class Americans.
Not a thing
Say it louder for the libs in the back
Something ‘middle class’ Americans may want to notice:
When people are living in abject poverty, you are comparatively ‘rich’.
Anger at the ‘rich’ is at an all time high.
The ‘true rich’ are out of reach of the poor.
As income inequality grows, this will get worse.
Bunch of people here are talking about who goes to burning man. So just to be a bit objective, here’s a burning man census they’ve been doing for the past decade
Census data does kinda prove the healthy wealth gap between attendees and the average American
I got shit for this in another thread, but I will stand by it- you do not go into the desert without checking the weather report, and if it says rain, light rain, heavy rain, sprinkles, doesn’t matter, you do not go into the desert. These people did not do the most basic bit of safety you could do.
Ok and people rebuild their homes in flood zones, it’s not the criticism that bothers me but when people take joy in it. The posts I’ve seen are just cheap.
Rebuilding a home in a flood zone is a little different. That’s a permanent situation people decide not to change for infrequent floods. Some people might not have the means to uproot their lives to get out of a flood zone. This current situation is a temporary choice for fun. If you do something that involves being outside, understanding the weather is necessary.
By the same token, would you criticize the organizers for holding the festival in a place that can flood, even if in years past it didn’t?
I agree, I don’t take joy in it. I just don’t have much sympathy for them.
If you thoroughly understand the situation and feel that way I respect it.
I’ve been out in the desert on more than one film/TV shoot in my life and we were always really diligent to make sure we were going out there when there was absolutely no risk of rain, because you could be in a wash or a dry lake bed and never even know it.
And I’m pretty sure Burning Man is in a dry lake bed.
It’s such highly irresponsible behavior that, like I said, my sympathy is minimal. Also, pretty much everyone is fine. It’s just very unpleasant for them. Someone did die, but they didn’t say why they died. It could very easily have just been ODing considering it’s Burning Man.
I’m just surprised at the sheer stupidity of those people. There have been pictures on the net, showing the festival area completely submerged just a few days before the start. Yet, they still moved there.
At that point, when they noticed that the mud was knee deep, they could have left. They decided to stay.
Now there is an emergency involving 70k idiots who put themselves wilfully in a dangerous place without thinking.
You’re not traveling in the wrong circles. Come to a VC fund dinner in September where junior VCs and 28-year-old “mortgage disrupter” CEOs brag about the air-conditioned plug-and-play camps they spent tens of thousands on, and play wink-wink with each other about all of the fun they had.
I’m a multiple-time BM vet, but it’s mostly an expensive, bureaucratized drug party for tourists now.
It’s perfectly fine to goof on it as it sinks into a physical and moral quagmire. Forgive a poorly scaled analogy, but your logic is the NRA’s logic when there’s a mass shooting: “Now, when everyone’s attention is focused, is not the time to highlight the underlying issues.”
No one hates the luxury plug-n-play campers more than other burners. And the org has even taken steps to crack down on them.
But the only thing older than non-burners hating on burners is burners saying “it was cooler back in the times when I went. It sucks now.”
What years were you there?
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You’re not allowed to vend anything at Burning Man. No commercial transactions permitted.
However, there are “adventure travel” companies that will take thousands of dollars of your money, weeks before the event, and then take you there and keep you in luxury the whole time. There are people who set up tents and prepare food and do all the cleaning for you, etc.
This has never been a significant proportion of the people attending. Not even 1%. If nothing else, it’s just too expensive for most people. So if you hear people shitting on this practice, just know that it isn’t broadly representative, and every single other burner out there who is pulling their own weight also hates these camps.
They’re strictly against the values of the community. Self reliance and decommodification are declared expectations. And while there have always been moochers and lameasses to be found, having companies make a business out of this was beyond the pale. The org began taking steps to ensure that these operations don’t get tickets and don’t get into the gate.
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Self reliance in the desert, by bringing in all you need for your totally natural camping experience.
