I’m sharing this article because it changed my perception of Jordan Peterson, and exposed him as intellectually dishonest at best and more likely a fraud artist. Starting with essentially his dissertation. It is a long read but it is incredibly well researched and written:
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
This video from Some More News really highlights all of Jordans bullshit. It’s long as fuck but I enjoyed every minute of it
I’ve never really cared for his humor, but Some More News videos are always a good watch. I’ll have to watch this one later.
It’s hit and miss. It’s always a bit Juvenile and sometimes I find in a little detractive from the message. As in there are a lot of people I wouldn’t automatically show it to because of the humor despite how well researched and presented everything is. But I generally enjoy the schtick for what it is. This stuff would get rather dry an hard to get through without it sometimes.
I also watch it despite the “humor” 😅
Dont look at the time stamp!
Wow what a fantastic video. I’m so glad I didn’t check the timecode.
The article was a fun read, but for readers who don’t have time, I believe Orwell’s essay “Politics and the English Language” describes the same problem with marginally fewer words. My favorite excerpt, though, really nails exactly the BS your article mentioned:
Now that I have made this catalogue of swindles and perversions, let me give another example of the kind of writing that they lead to. This time it must of its nature be an imaginary one. I am going to translate a passage of good English into modern English of the worst sort. Here is a well-known verse from Ecclesiastes:
I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
Here it is in modern English:
Objective consideration of contemporary phenomena compels the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.
This is a parody, but not a very gross one.
Peterson’s writings are worse than Orwell’s own parodies.
I’d not heard of this essay, I’ll have to check it out. Thank you for sharing.
Basically, he regularly violates the Maxim of Manner.
The philosopher of language Paul Grice introduced the concept in his pragmatic theory, argued such:
Make your contribution such as is required, at the stage at which it occurs, by the accepted purpose or direction of the talk exchange in which you are engaged.[1]: 45
Oh the irony lol
Pro tip, if you place > on the empty lines you’ll make one continuous quote.
Like
this.
Wild… in Sync, it reads as a continuous quote. I guess you’re using a different interface
Website. Also Jerboa does the same. I imagine Sync behaves that way because that’s what reddit did.
I actually prefer this version, it allows you to separate quotes without having to put anything in between.
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I was going to just call him a wanker.
It’s a good article. I’ll admit that Jordan Peterson is a good psychologist and knows many words and stories, he can make many people feel smart or dumb through his incantations of nonsense. But that’s it, all the rest of it is bunk.
His essays read like an anthology of writings someone made to finish a book report due tomorrow, after not sleeping for 3 days yet somehow feeling wide awake from the crazed panic.
Also see this screenshot on Firefox Mobile (Est. reading time 63 - 81min). Readers will be well-advised to skim over the copious amount of Jordan Peterson excerpts. Lol.
He is a psychologist not a psychiatrist
You’re right, I had it originally but I edited it the wrong way.
Here is a good short video
Appreciate the link. It’s crazy how much info they pack into such a short video!
Admittedly I don’t know much about Jordan Peterson, but if it does that, it wouldn’t change my perception of him at all.
One more reason to hate the education system of rating stuff according to how lengthy it is.
Eh, I think we have to recognize that many people using this site are doing things like taking the train, using the bathroom, or waiting on something. That often necessitates browsing to be short.
I didn’t mean it to be a jab at the users, but I might’ve written it too ambiguously.
Obviously in most cases it’s better when something you read on the internet is short and concise: my gripe was with a lot of news sites (and, in this case Peterson) who do the exact opposite of that to seem smarter. The “joke” was that it’s a behavior learned in school, where the more you write the better, even if you could’ve expressed the same concept in a much shorter way.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the education system. It’s simply that the commitment involved in the request is much higher than normal. I don’t read every 50-page article or 2-hour video I come across. But I can be compelled to when the value proposition is higher than normal.
I think my comment was misunderstood: it was kind of a half-joke about Peterson’s writing.
Everyone learned to make their concept as long as possible in school because they were better-received, and that’s what Peterson is doing: talking in the most convoluted way possible to make his otherwise bland ideas feel smart.
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I completely disagree. Based off of your comment it seems that you did not absorb the article whatsoever.
There are many good examples in the article of Peterson presenting opinion as indisputable fact and obscuring ideas with complex language. Particularly when he is challenged based on those ideas.
Not to mention the examples of how he treats children and others. It is an absolutely wild read. Lengthy but eye-opening.
Edit: it also exposes how the ideas that his core philosophy is built on are simplistic at best and often flat out wrong or intentionally disingenuous.
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You forgot the best part. Before doing that he was (and probably still is) against medicating yourself out of addictions because it’s the “easy way out”. His entire shtick is about the right way of living and then he acts contrarily to his own teachings.
Rules for thee, not for me
Yeah, lying sacks of shit will do that.
My favorite is when someone asked him “Do you believe in God” and he was caught between his reputation as an “intellectual” and the fact that the apes he grifts are gonna hoot extra loud and fling extra poo if he says no. Recognizing that he was between a rock and a hard place, he gave one of the most amusing non-responses I’ve ever heard in my life. What he said was, from memory, “That depends on what you mean by ‘do’, ‘you’, ‘believe’ and ‘God’.” He then blathered on for a minute about how he thinks of God as a symbol for the human capacity for goodness and he believes in that, and no one asked why the symbol for the human capacity for goodness hates trans people and needs money, so everyone left satisfied.
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He’s the perfect post-modern intellectual, which is rather funny when you consider how anti-postmodernism he is. He’s a media image of an intellectual, all big words and expensive suits, but his big words don’t really mean anything. The fucking “chaos dragon of feminity” is a hilariously stupid concept that rivals the shit Freud came up with when the cocaine was extra pure, but they eat it up. He and the rest of the so-called “intellectual dark web” provide a thin veneer of logic and rationality to the visceral hate that the alt right runs on, and it makes sense to people who really want and need it to make sense. He gives people the ability to be led around by their emotions and still feel like not only are they not being ruled by fear, but that they’re actually on a level above everyone who doesn’t accept the “cold hard truth” that we all need to be racist, homophobic, xenophobic and basically terrified all of the time.
Realising how precarious a pedestal the far right built him would be a rare moment of self awareness. He’s B-grade meat to them, so they’d Milo him in a heartbeat.
He knows where his money comes from. He’s not stupid, he’s evil.
Isn’t it odd that every time anything that’s an ally of the GOP ends up in Russia of all places?
It’s almost like the GOP colludes with Russia.
I think it remains to be seen whether he’s learned anything.
I’m not sure he’s “learned” anything. Good article otherwise!
Good article?
The comments that formed the basis of the complaints against Dr. Peterson included comments on a podcast in which he commented on air pollution and child deaths by saying “it’s just poor children…”
This quote is the most disgusting out of context character assassination I’ve seen in a long time.
I got suspicious because while Jordan does say things that women and/or trans people often find deplorable. I know that he’s a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric) and as a family man I assume of children as well.
The full context can be found on Spotify. Episode #1769 of “The Joe Rogan Experience” start from about 15:30. He’s the one that brings up how 7 million poor children die from indoor particulate pollution. Joe doesn’t believe him and gets a fact check, which eventually leads to Jordan sarcastically saying “Well, it’s just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway…”
It’s such an insane mischaracterization of what he said, you can’t take the article seriously. Probably would have to write off the entire website that article is from, honestly.
I think Jordon Peterson is a giant pile of shit, but you’re being downvoted for calling out a shitty article for misrepresenting obvious sarcasm, and that’s bullshit. Misinformation is misinformation regardless of whether or not it confirms our bias, if the Fediverse community doesn’t want to learn this it has no business pointing at misinformation on other platforms like Reddit.
How can we expect anyone to critically examine the media they consume if we fail to do the same when it suits us? Peterson is a flaming pile of pseudo-intellectual garbage, but there’s plenty of ways to prove that without intentionally taking sound bites out of context.
That and body shaming people you don’t like really aggravate me. Shit humans do shit things, attack that and leave the rest alone.
The double-standards on body shaming drive me up the wall on this website. The number of “ugly, fat, small penis” comments I see from the same people who say you can’t call a medically obese person “obese” is insane to me.
The number of “ugly, fat, small penis” comments I see from the same people who say you can’t call a medically obese person “obese” is insane to me.
Cite one of your many examples of being unable to call a medically obese person “obese” because of objections from people engaging in body shaming.
No, he’s being downvoted because he’s adjacently defending JP. If you don’t know how JP is human garbage at this point, and you’re willing to come to articles to defend him, you’re a fan. And therefore, a twat.
Edit: yes the article is BS but that doesn’t change what he’s selling.
No matter how much of a wanker Peterson is, and I agree he is one. You should always be wary of misinformation. By spreading something so easily disproved because it feels right, you just give him ammunition to argue that people are lying and defaming him when defending himself. The bloke has said tons of stupid stuff worth criticism, focus on them.
That, and it’s just a terribly nasty thing to do.
Nothing turns my stomach more than misinformation.
Correcting dishonesty is defending someone.
What a load of shit.
I mean, in the other comment he then went even further beyond and actually did started to defend JP. So, you know, I guess he was right in calling him out in the end :p
His reasons were shit.
You’re looking to make an argument where there is none. Go outside.
You know just as well as I do that he’s cherry picking the article for inaccuracies to defend JP. Nobody is defending the article ffs.
Yea the article is shit, we already established that (and I don’t recall anyone stating otherwise in our exchanges). That’s not what we are talking about. If you continue to make it about that, you’re just as much of a twat as the idiot above.
It is if you’ve already made up your mind that Jordan Peterson, for example, is a piece of shit and therefore nothing anyone says about the matter really matters anymore.
The people downvoting him already made up their minds. They already came to the conclusion they think is correct, and so debate is no longer needed. To them, you’re needlessly drawing out an argument that has long since ended in their favor, and why would anyone do that unless they had an ulterior motive?
That’s how they think. They’re not really wrong; whether they’re upvoting misinformation or not really IS irrelevant to the grander question and that grander question is whether JP is a fraud, and to them that answer is unequivocally yes, debate over.
Don’t waste your time arguing with them. Their battle lines have already been drawn.
What the hell were they supposed to say? Should they have agreed that the article was good just because JP is a PoS? Despite the clear and disgusting BS inside it? Is that really what you want?
Misinformation is misinformation and needs to be cleared up, no matter who the target is.
I don’t know how to reach these people or whether they’re reachable at all. Yes, my main motivation by a very long shot was to correct absurd levels of misinformation in a community where I believe most members care about not spreading misinformation.
What worries me is that so many people seem to be living in an echo bubble that’s radicalizing them to hate people they shouldn’t be hating.
So yes, there’s a lot of not so great things about Jordan Peterson. But all things considered he’s not that bad. And I haven’t paid attention closely for the last few years, but I wouldn’t be characterizing him as a piece of shit.
The author of the article is a worse piece of shit than Jordan Peterson. People who seem to take pleasure out of Jordan’s suffering due to his Benzodiazepine addiction are even worse.
But, looking at some of Jordan’s twitter comment, he’s definitely a bit of an asshole. But 95% of people seem to be assholes when they go on twitter.
The only really bad thing about him is his political views. But even there, there seems to be less malice and less self serving talk than most right wingers (other than the apparent or effective grifting). But even the grifting, in my opinion, is not as bad as most people (both on the left and on the right). Still, right wing ideology is a very problematic from a liberal perspective (which is my perspective). But at the same time today’s mainstream and increasingly radical left ideology is also problematic from a liberal perspective. Regardless, I still don’t think that someone’s anti-liberal social views necessarily makes them a piece of shit regardless of if they’re on the left or on the right. But it does make it easy to become one.
Sorry but I have to vehemently disagree. I find this views on transgender people abhorrent. He misgenders and deadnames people out of spite and disguises it as intellectual honesty.
His views on the role of women are outdated as hell, he disparages the humanities despite his participation in them, promotes toxic masculinity, and is a climate change denier. He holds all these views while wearing a mask of impartiality and aloofness, but his talking points are no different from and scarcely better supported than any other bigot’s.
So while I am against misinformation, I still feel quite confident in calling him a piece of shit as I believe he promotes hateful and backwards ideals.
Please read this: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Not only does Jordan Peterson say dumb inflammatory shit, but he’s also apparently an intellectual fraud.
He’s a horrible piece of shit regardless of what that article says.
Maybe, I don’t know. How do you know? You seem so eager to believe lies. How do you know that everything you think you know about Jordan Peterson isn’t all lies?
Because he actually says this shit out loud:
- https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1526279181545390083
- https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1628292293173342208
- Peterson suggests “enforced monogamy” as a solution to male isolation
This is only a small fraction of the crap that this guy said with his own mouth/twitter account.
Wow total shocker that the dirtbag peterson lovers in this thread have no response to you.
Because thinking in absolutes isn’t scientific. Is it possible some of the reported are lies? Sure. What do we do with that? Verify. But you’re phrasing the question in a black and white way, awfully reminiscent of petermanston himself. Do you know people wear lipstick for more reasons than signaling sexual arousal, as an example?
he’s a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric)
“Well, it’s just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway…”
Never mind how laughable that first quote is, it is inherently incompatible with the second, since the entire Malthusian myth is based in classist eugenics
https://www.theworldmind.org/home/2021/12/10/the-dangerous-myth-of-overpopulation
https://www.globaljustice.org.uk/blog/2019/03/how-racist-myths-built-population-growth-bogey-man/
Imagine still jumping to the defence of this bigoted useless grifter… 🤦♀️😂
I am sorry, but I dont understand where is the misinformation? The article doesnt state nor imply that JP has said that poor children deserve to die. It stated, that that particular comment was used in a complaint against him in court. So if you are upset at the people who formed the complaint then thats fair. But why be mad at the article? They only stated what has happened, unless I misunderstood?
This is why I’ve kinda stopped consuming other people’s political writing, and only shitcomment about it. People of all stripes cannot resist the urge to make the story just a liiiiiitle better.
Would you throw out Nietzsche because he said one thing you disagree with?
If we all followed the teachings of jordan peterson we would be living in a world perfectly suited to jordan peterson. I would sooner live in a world which made jordan peterson suicidal.
I’d prefer a world where he learned a trade, and spent his life building affordable housing and never considered teaching anyone anything.
It’s not because of his drug addiction, interesting. It’s because he was being shitty towards poor and trans people. Glad to see he’s being reprimanded for something.
“…being subject to a code of ethics or having to be more responsible and thoughtful in how one expresses oneself in public forums is part of the package one accepts in exchange for the privilege and benefits that come with being a licensed professional”.
Indeed. If Mr Peterson wants to present as a practitioner of a regulated profession, they have to follow the rules. They are not owed a right to practice, they are given a privilege to practice.
Nobody is forcing him to be a member of the profession – to paraphrase one of his tweets that was complained about “You’re free to leave [the profession] at any point.”
Jordan Peterson really is free to leave the profession - he doesn’t need the money. Meanwhile a psychologist who isn’t independently wealthy can’t express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood. I don’t think “only the rich can exercise freedom of speech” is good policy.
Meanwhile a psychologist who isn’t independently wealthy can’t express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood
Oh fuck off with that. The opinion he expressed was, and I quote, (about child deaths) “it’s just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyways”. A licensed medical professional should never say something like that, period, even in jest.
I don’t know the context for that quote and I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to my argument. Even if we assume the worst possible interpretation, H.L. Mencken still said it best:
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
And again people don’t grok what “freedom of speech” entails.
You can speak all you like. If what you say pisses people off, they can avoid you all they like, up to and including MOTHERFUCKING EMPLOYMENT.
Freeze Peach idiots need to grow the Hell up!
People forget that free speech also includes freedom of association. You can say what you want but others have the freedom to choose not to associate with you because of it.
I don’t think they forget it. I think they’re hoping everyone else forgets it.
But freedom of association is used to justify racial discrimination, including segregation, so that doesn’t really work either.
Every right has limits. Discrimination against protected classes is one of those limits.
Every right has limits.
Yeah, that’s a good way to get you into a tyrannical situation you have no way out of.
Name a right you think has no limitation.
I’ll find your limits (if you’re honest, which, given this is the Internet, is highly doubtful).
Here’s a foretaste:
“The pursuit of happiness…”
If my happiness involves making other people miserable, well, either you’re a fucking sociopath for supporting it, or there is an intrinsic limit: “…provided you don’t interfere with the happiness of others.” And with that one safe-seeming limit, we open a can of worms in defining just the word “interfere” there.
Still want to play this game?
All of them. Any that have any sort of limitation imposed upon the user by anyone automatically turns that right into a privilege granted to you by other people, and by extension easily removable by others at any time for any dumbass arbitrary reason.
I know you’re going to say this means all rights are privileges. And you’re right. We don’t have any rights. We need them but don’t have them. This is how humanity has chosen to carry itself through this life, and the future. We lost the plot on rights a long time ago and we might not ever get them back.
“The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.” ― H.L. Mencken
Freedom of speech is between a person and a government, not between a person and a private club they pay yearly dues to be a member of.
The confusion is that in the US the professional organisations are a part of the government. In Canada, the government gives authority to private groups to manage themselves, and they basically get to be in charge of a job title. Jordan Peterson doesn’t practise psychology anymore and hasn’t for nearly a decade.
Yet he’s kept his professional membership going. This way, he can say “As a psychologist, I think [some bullshit about something that has nothing to do with psychology].” This is more than enough for the College to properly reprimand him, as he’s bringing the entire profession into disrepute - but they didn’t even do that, they just asked him to attend a couple courses.
He could always quit the profession. He’d still have all the qualifications and accomplishments, he’d just have to talk about it in the past tense, ie when he was actually relevant.
Freedom of speech IS a freedom from consequences. Sadly most people using freedom of speech term today don’t understand that it doesn’t apply to the context of the discussion. The whole article is just complete nonsense.
The idea that you can say reprehensible things then have your rights violated because others don’t want to associate with you anymore is the complete nonsense. Further, Canada doesn’t go by ‘freedom of speech’, it goes by freedom of expression.
You don’t understand freedom of speech as well.
No, I very much do. You don’t seem to understand the laws of the country involved, though.
The basic principles are the same everywhere.
That principle being, in your opinion, “I can say whatever I want and you have to associate with me?” I suggest you do some more studying.
Also, freedom of speech doesn’t exist in Canadian law, so I guess not.
What are you even talking about? Once again, you just don’t understand freedom of speech. Just like most people.
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