• NekoKoneko@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      They have reasonably positive policy, they just are as usual terrible at explaining activity.

      The Biden-era Inflation Reduction Act had quite a bit of green incentives for regular people, and it created widespread solar and non-fossil-fuel home improvements that did (in my area at least) translate to a lot of green tech being installed, not just on-paper policy.

      The GOP and Trump especially are irrationally hostile to green tech, and there are plenty of examples why they’re materially worse - paying again just to cancel an already-paid-for wind farm project for example.

      So this isn’t really a “both sides suck” problem. One side has a slightly positive policy that could be a lot better. One side is in a psychotic delusional fugue and actively trying to destroy the planet.

      • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        20 hours ago

        You mean the same Biden that did more drilling for oil than Trump did? The same Biden that increased funding the the largest non-country polluting organization in the world?

        What a hero! 🙄

      • freagle@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        Obama literally led the largest expansion of fossil fuel extraction in the history of the US.

        • stickly@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          And yet the USA’s production and consumption based emissions decreased over his tenure. Seems like replacing foreign fuel shipped from across the world with domestic fuel is a climate win, but that doesn’t let you own the libz…

          • freagle@lemmy.ml
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            19 hours ago

            Yes, the majority of emissions reduced during the 8 years under Obama were because fracking drove down the cost of natural gas below the cost of coal. The market drove a reduction in a coal usage in favor of fracked natural gas. But of course, that’s what happens when the only thing you control for is the one variable that makes headlines.

            Speaking of which, during the first 4 years of Obama’s fracking boom, no one was measuring the leaks, and leaks from natural gas wells are methane, which traps 8,600% of the energy that CO2 does. They didn’t even start trying to fix this until 2016, and of course those fixes were easily rolled back by Trump, because the Ds can always expand the harm, but they can’t ever seem to contain it.

    • Kindness is Punk@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      They were terrible but I’d take a C- over the current F just saying. Not voting won’t make them care more about climate change, hearing it in primaries from engaged voting populace is what dictates policy. It’s why boomers had so much sway because they know they’ll vote.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        When you are grading yourself and give yourself a C- and then talk about how thats good enough to get people off their couch in an election, then go ahead and add ‘misunderstanding how to compete in an election’ to your list of problems.

        • Kindness is Punk@lemmy.ca
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          1 day ago

          Didn’t say it was good enough. Said it was better, why would moving in the direction I don’t want help, I said both, you seem be saying neither.

          • freagle@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            Because minor concessions are obvious pandering without real benefit. Give incentives to buy EVs, sure, go for it. But if you expand the military and fossil fuel extraction and then launch wars where you’re dropping bombs all over the world it doesn’t really matter how many tax breaks you give to EV buyers.

            • Kindness is Punk@lemmy.ca
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              24 hours ago

              As apposed to dropping even more bombs and not being any incentives, and like I said you don’t stop there, that’s the start, you still protest, you still advocate for direct action. One does not proclude the other

              • freagle@lemmy.ml
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                23 hours ago

                Historically, neither party has been a fewer bombs kind of party, and both parties have had their moments of conservation and environmental destruction, and their moments of expanding rights and destroying them.

                I do understand the idea of a plurality of strategies. I just think that people need to understand which strategies actually have effects. Allowing people to believe in fairy tales is a recipe for disempowerment. Much like praying for a cancer cure, voting is one of those things that makes you feel better about yourself without actually achieving anything

                • Kindness is Punk@lemmy.ca
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                  23 hours ago

                  There are material differences between the parties, pretending their policy is the exact same isn’t enlightenment it’s delusion. People should hold specifically institutional democrats accountable for stifling progress I’m with you there but the only thing not voting ever got us was less time to work with and worse conditions to do it in.

                  • freagle@lemmy.ml
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                    23 hours ago

                    You’re making shit up. Women got the vote without voting for it. Black people got the vote without voting for it. Black people got civil rights while less than 10% of them were voting. The politicians that passed civil rights were in both parties and it wouldn’t have passed without bi-partisan support. Equally, it was both parties that designed, implemented, and sold the war on drugs to incarcerate more black people immediately following the passage of civil rights.

                    You are 100% correct that the Good Cop behaves materially different from the Bad Cop. The Good Cop doesn’t break the law as often, nor as loudly. They don’t act beligerently, they don’t attack you. What the Good Cop does is hangs out with the Bad Cop and appreciated how the Bad Cop makes it easier for the Good Cop to get compliance from the prisoner.

                    Yes, GI Joe and COBRA have different policies, but they’re created by the same author.

                    The Ds and the Rs share the responsibility of managing the USA, and the USA is a EuroCentric white supremacist monocultural genocidal psychotic violent belligerent entirely based on the Papal Doctrine of Discovery (don’t take my word for it, read RBG) and 100% committed to maintaining control over the stolen wealth of millions of trafficked humans, 100% committed to maintaining the system of racial categorization for the purposes of dividing the working class, ad 100% committed that the working class should never organize and overthrow the capitalists.

                    So yes, they do act differently. Because that’s the roles they play in project of managing empire. But whether you vote for one or the other won’t make the country less fascist, less psychotic, less violent, less carceral, less mass murdersome. Voting has never stopped or even slowed down the machine.

          • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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            20 hours ago

            You’re arguing with a russian propaganda bot, their whole account is bad faith shit.

      • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        20 hours ago

        C- is drastically better than the Dems environmental policies and practices. They were absolutely F

        • Kindness is Punk@lemmy.ca
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          1 day ago

          We got public healthcare in Canada through direct political action, respectfully there is room for both strategies.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Maybe if people championed the good Democrats instead of spreading bullshit meant to encourage not voting and votes for Russian assets, Democrats would start getting better overall. Nah we should probably just go full tankie on this shit and pretend to be surprised when that doesn’t help anything.

      • Sailor Anarres@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 day ago

        As an anarchist you people need to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a “tankie” you’ve made it absolutely meaningless.

        • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          If you’re actually an anarchist you’re not even part of the conversation so what the fuck are you doing here? Go do anarchy you fucking larper.