Nobody cares what you find disheartening when you’re literally spewing imperialist propaganda about the #1 socialist nation on the planet.

“Human rights abuses” buddy youre a socdem, not a leftist. Fuck OFF.

BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it.

I find it disheartening when people talk out their ass on a subject they’ve only learned about from cultural osmosis, and they then think the pushback they receive is due to some doctrinal orthodoxy and not just because they’re talking out of their ass. People aren’t agreeing with your criticism because it is unfounded, not because it is criticism of China. If you posted something incorrect about the United States you’d likewise receive push back, and thats not because people here are nationalist democrats, but because that incorrect thing would likewise be unfounded.

You will see plenty of actual critique of China, especially its foreign policy, its trade with Israel, its actions during the sino-soviet split, it’s failure to curtail liberals, the regressive views of some of the old guard when it comes to queer people, its drug laws, and Im sure a bunch of other things as well. You will also see spirited discussion about things like the “great firewall”, state censorship, Dengism, and I dunno what else. The fact that things aren’t reduced to some simple binary “good/bad” is why you see this. Because, you know, things aren’t that simple.

I’ve seen a lot of pictures from the day both before and after the military intervention. I haven’t seen evidence characterising it as anything other than student-led protests, which of course were joined by other civilians. Do you have any?

Cowbee has already provided a wealth of information I would recommend starting with the article by Sun Feiyang and Roderic Day and delving into the sources provided.

BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it. This only drives away others who are open to e.g. opposition of NATO, but not willing to deny human rights abuses in support of that goal. Just seems hypocritical and like you don’t actually stand for any values instead of another flavor of tribalism and nationalism

This is a completely nonsensical and ridiculous reply to me simply pointing out that the protest was more complex than simply a student protest and that the violence was not so one sided and cartoonish but rather the result of clashes between rioters with such peaceful calls as

Don’t let any soldiers escape! Kill them all!

and the peaceful thoughts of CIA operative and student leader Chai Ling:

The students keep asking, “What should we do next? What can we accomplish?” I feel so sad, because how can I tell them that what we are actually hoping for is bloodshed

Who when asked:

Are you going to stay in the Square yourself?

Replied:

No, I won’t. Because my situation is different. My name is on the government’s hit list. I’m not going to let myself be destroyed by this government. I want to live

and the soldiers acting in place of riot police.

I am not at all against criticism of the handling of the events surrounding Tiananmen square in 1989 however that is not what you were doing rather you were merely obscuring the reality to allow yourself to apply easy blanket condemnation in place of real analysis and thought.

I recommend the Tian’anmen Protests Reading List. It was far more muddy than a student protest. There were workers protesting Deng’s reforms, liberal students protesting the socialists system, and CIA-backed operatives sparking discontent. On the day of June 4th, riots around Beijing clashed with the PLA, while the square itself was later evacuated peacefully.