I just got this popup while playing New vegas. I don’t even use chrome, i’ve switched to firefox. How can this be allowed? Also, this is Win10
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If governments actually gave a fuck about antitrust anymore, it would be. 20-ish years ago, they dragged Microsoft to court over simply bundling IE with Windows. It didn’t even constantly nag you to set as default; just the fact that it was bundled at all was enough to make it into the sights of regulators.
Dumb question but how would you get your browser of choice if they didn’t include one from the jump?
Cd or usb
Microsoft clearly uses dark patterns and FUD to lure you into using Bing.
As long as they’re using legal loopholes (or downright do not care because they have enough money to pay any fines) you cannot do anything against it except not using their OS.
I stopped using outlook entirely for this behaviour. Outlook would embed a bing search in your long press menu on android.
What kind of long press menu? I have it installed but don’t have any such menu.
Highlight some text in your browser or an app
Yea I don’t see it
If you press the 3dots does it show in a list?
I don’t have whatever other apps are showing in that list so it was showing up first
This is all I have.
Oh God, that was so annoying! Once I realized which app had added that, I uninstalled it with alacrity. I have to use Outlook for my job, but that doesn’t mean I’ll use the mobile version ever again. And the web-based one actually works fine on mobile devices.
Yeah absolute pisstake. I’ve moved to Proton Mail and forward any left to transfer emails and use the outlook lite app to manage it, it’s actually not that bad.
MS is a spam company and it’s turned me into a daily Linux user.
Ironic, because I used to use Bing (over Google) and all this kind of bullshit - especially aggressively pushing their chat bot - pushed me away (to DDG).
I mean, it depends on your design of the fines. If you ask for a days revenue per day of violation, this stuff will never happen again (since this is no mistake, it is totally fair price). A month of this and their yearly profit is in the government hand.
Maybe I’m missing something, but why would this be illegal?
Anti consumer and anti competitive. Using their position as the OS to bug the living shit out of you to use their services
Anti consumer and anti competitive.
I’m not so sure how it’s either of those things. I mean yeah, it’s annoying (especially if it’s popping up while you’re playing a game), but I don’t feel like it’s crossing either of these lines. If you click “Don’t switch”, it goes away, and it’s not changing anything without your permission. I’ve never seen it pop up again on my devices. I forget where in the settings it would be, but I seem to recall there being an option to disable suggestions like this, as well (although an argument could be made that this should be opt-in instead of opt-out).
I know this community has a (largely justified) hate-boner for big tech companies, but not every annoyance is a crime. If anything, I’m just glad to see that they’re at least respecting the user’s consent these days; in the before times, Microsoft would just revert all your shit to what they wanted, whether you liked it or not, permission be damned. I lost track of how many WinXP updates would reinstall that Bing Bar (or MSN or whatever they called it back then) without asking me.
Unless there’s another angle that I’m not seeing, I don’t see how this is that much of a problem. If anything, it’s a good advertisement for Linux, though.
I’m not even remotely a legal expert and I don’t know what type of popup that is but I think the anti-competitive piece is “could Google use the same technique to push the user to switch to google search on Edge or not?”.
If this was an ad from a web page OP had opened or from the game and if clicking “Yes” only directed the user to a site with instructions on how to switch default search engine on Chrome, then yes, obnoxious but probably fair. Google could strike a deal with the game developers to push their search engine to Edge users or buy an ad. Someone writing a new browser or search engine will probably have considerably less money than Google but could reasonably do something similar to try and gain market share.
On the other hand, if that popup comes from Windows itself and especially if clicking “Yes” directly changes Chrome’s settings, then this is Microsoft using their ubiquitous (on desktops) OS to nudge more users to switch a competitor’s browser to their own search engine. Google, or even less a new competitor. would probably not have the same type of OS-level access to switch the settings of a different browser.
Google already does this - and has been for years - use Google Search or Gmail on a non-Google browser and it will “suggest” you use Chrome
Less on edge, but google goes father actually. Google pays Mozilla to make google search the default aearch engine. You could argue thats worse then creating a notification to switch (but doesnt actually do it yet till you allow it to)
Disagree. OS pop-ups are at a much more basic system level than going to a specific site and then it might prompt a pop-up.
In the case of firefox, its not going to a specific site, it would be that way when installed. Its like saying mocrosoft should just outright overwrite the default search engine on amy browser without asking you vs asking you via popup, unless youre saying that the former is better.
Not at all. The difference here is that Google agreed that with Mozilla themselves. They don’t overwrite the browser settings when you open Google. I agree with the sentiment that Google should have less influence and alternative search engines should get more space, but Mozilla itself, Google’s competitor, is who agreed to have their search engine as the default.
It also comes to mind that Microsoft, again, insists on asking you to change to Bing on Edge every update, even if you already picked a different search engine.
I can see many many examples of how bad Microsoft and Google can be. However this one I honestly don’t understand: how’s Google supporting Mozilla’s competing product anti- competitive? Are they forcing Mozilla to do things they don’t want in return?
I am a Firefox uaer and on every install on a new machine (or phone) I switch the default search engine to duckduckgo. But for good or for bad Google is the search engine most people use (and would use on FF too even if it wasn’t the default). I don’t think Google needs to force Firefox 3%-ish market share to use their search engine.
By setting defaults, its the reason why Microsoft was accused for being anti conpetitive by having a default browser installed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp
And why Windows N version exists
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions (look under N/KN in regional variations)
Its why google also for european devices offer a default search engine selection as setting a default is considered anti competiive in EU
https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-google-antitrust-idUSL4N24Y2GY
Using a dominant market position as leverage against competitors, is per definition Anti consumer and anti competitive.
Apart from that, they are basically hijacking a competitors product to show this, which I think if not already illegal, it absolutely should be.
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It’s about it being annoying or not. Microsoft is in a market position where they can leverage their different departments to heavily upsell you on other services. They have an unfair advantage that shifts the entire market to their favor, thus making it hard for any competitor to keep up or even enter the market.
E.g. they use every service / product they have to integrate Bing, they artificially limit the use of their chat bot to Microsoft Edge, they show Bing advertisements when you visit their competitors sites, they allow you to use Teams for free under certain conditions (if you already bought other products), they use their foot in the door with Microsoft Office / Windows go upsell you on Azure, …, Game Pass, …
I can go on and on. Some of them aren’t necessarily bad on their own. Some are. It paints a pattern of what Microsoft used to be. They actively used their position to try and create market conditions that would break their competitors or make it at least hard for them to even compete. About 15 years ago a lot of folks believed Microsoft had changed and were playing fair (in certain bounds), they invested a lot into open source and were generally a more friendly company. What we are currently witnessing is them going back to their old ways of doing things. Slowly tying everything back together. Probably under the assumption that this time the governments are sleeping and not really regulating it anymore. A lot of that is happening in the somewhat non-regulated cloud market anyways.
Anticompetitive is a matter of antitrust law. Microsoft doesn’t currently have a monopoly on operating systems in the way they did 25 years ago.
According to Rules of the Internet § 12 “if I find something to be annoying, objectionable, or wrong it surely must be illegal.”
MS literally got in trouble for bundling IE with the OS 20 years ago… This is so much worse.
If you cannot understand why people are rightfully upset… LEARN YOUR FUCKING HISTORY.
Things were a little bit different in the late 90s though. Windows had a 97% market share and a massive deal with pretty much every computer maker to only put Windows on their pre-built machines. They had a true monopoly in a way that doesn’t exist today.
They also made IE free and bundled with the OS when every other browser at the time you had to buy. On top of that, they made it so that windows would slow down and malfunction if you uninstalled IE, and made installing any other browser a complicated process.
Today you can freely and easily install pretty much any browser you want. Chrome has the hugely dominant share in the the desktop browser market now, despite Edge being bundled with Windows.
On top of that, Microsoft doesn’t have the massive stranglehold on OS market share that they used to. In the desktop space, MacOS is about 1 in 6 computers with Windows holding 71%, mostly in the enterprise sector.
And this doesn’t even factor in that the majority of web traffic is mobile now, where Windows doesn’t even have a presence anymore.
Basically every point you’re trying to make about how MS was in the 90’s is truer today except for market share.
Why is market share such a critical point when we’re suffering from WORSE problems?
Those days are long gone. Else we’d see Apple and Google getting in trouble for bundling their own apps for everything on their devices.
People can be pissed that multiple different companies are doing things wrong at the same time. The problem is our government has lost its teeth for regulating large businesses
upset
Upset != “Illegal”
They had to separate it you numpty. They literally DID get in trouble because it was illegal. How are you seriously missing this detail?
I’ve been a Linux warrior since '98. I’ve hated MS for decades now.
But not everything they do is illegal.
You’re talking about the past. Notice you’re not explaining how this thing in the present is illegal.
Having some something illegal doesn’t mean everything you do is illegal afterwards.
Way to completely and utterly miss the entire point of ethics. Does it HAVE to be illegal for it to be bad when it is WORSE than what they’ve already gotten in trouble for in the past? Why must I have to point at a law in order to say it shouldn’t be?
If you even begin to hate MS, why are you defending them with piss-poor logic?
yes officer, this comment right here.
It’s not, that’s why they’re doing it.
It is illegal - they’ve already been taken to court and lost over similar practices 20 years ago.
It’s just not enforced anymore - and that’s why they’re doing it.
They were taken to court for bundling a previously paid product (a browser) into their OS for free.
Asking if you want to change your search engine is not the same thing.
Because OP is a crybaby.
It’s getting REALLY difficult to tell normal operation and viruses apart.
I think you’re confusing virus and malware. Windows is malware by definition. I think according to gnu philosophy any proprietary software is malware because features are designed to make profits and not to service the end user.
thanks again Richard
Because in all practical senses, windows is a virus.
Viruses at their core are programs which do things against your will on your own machine. Which is bad.
However, that is exactly what windows does. But like the boiling frog, people for some reason are okay with more bullshit from Microsoft and less control of their own devices with every passing update and year.
Complaining on
redditsocial media does nothing. Switching to Linux gives you back control and will be better for everyone in the long run.Is this an attack or a Windows update?
One of the many reasons why I will never return to Windows.
I still have to use 10 for work, but on the plus side it’s a 5 day per week reminder of just how terrible it is.
In the same boat. and recently of all the issues that could pop up, Teams has decided to become a buggy mess. Their own software on their own OS just stops working after just one year of using the machine.
Not to speak of all the other slowdowns and child-diseases that the thing has developed.
Meanwhile my desktop install of Linux is nearing its 10th birthday, has all sorts of legacy configs that I never bothered to clean up, has moved drives 3 times and to a different filesystem+partitioning scheme, changed bootloader… Yet still is way less of a pain than Windows at work.
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Everything with a GUI runs POP_OS, because I like how much control I have over app windows via the keyboard. When I’m hyperfocused I like not having to take my hands off the keyboard. It has really good tiling too, but I think vanilla Gnome has mostly caught up in that department.
Agreed
I still don’t get how Microsoft got in trouble for bundling internet explorer but now they are completely fine doing this
Anti-trust regulation has gotten very toothless in recent years. The shit many corporations are pulling now is insane when you think back about what happened to ms then.
Frustratingly, the rulings preventing them from bundling software with an operating system stopped them from building in anti-virus measures. For years when Windows was synonymous with malware, they had their hands tied. 20 years later, they started including Windows defender / Security Essentials. The unnecessary global economic losses caused were immense.
They will be fine doing this for 5 years, then a new antitrust ruling will tell them to stop, and so on.
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Or you just install Linux and be done with it.
Yes, I am THAT guy. It looks and feels like windows, but prettier, nicer, and better. No more corporate rules bullshit, no more anti virus bullshit, no more bullshit.
Yes, most games do work now.
Yes, most windows software has equal or better alternatives, or run natively through wine.
You don’t have to put up with Microsoft bullshit.
Get rid of office, Hotmail and teams while you’re at it and get working software.
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Because…? I’ve used Linux on desktop for over 20 years now. Yes. I have a multi monitor (3 monitors) setup with a cool looking 3d desktop (bling mostly to show off, make people come for the bling, stay for the awesome computer experience) and I’ve loved every minute of it.
Every single time I see another one of these posts I tell people to come to Linux, we got cookies
And then again, next update. Cat. And. Mouse.
Meaning? That you need to update software? Of course you do. Even on Linux. But when you do you don’t have to reboot, for example. Minor difference caused by a smart filesystem versus whatever the fuck windows uses these days.
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The internet needs more people like you.
Excellent instructions, nice clear and to the point.
Nah it doesn’t. He is being a dick. You probably can Google that. He missed the point of the entire topic. Nobody was positing how to remove it because this topic wasn’t about that. If someone would have asked about it in the first place people would probably have provided solutions.
What company was it that lost an antitrust lawsuit again? It was something like Macrosoft? Microphone? idr
Why wouldn’t it be legal? You are using their product and they put out a notification on it asking if you want to use one of their products. Why would that be illegal!?
Like I understand people not liking it, but illegal?
These posts are just getting insane at this point.
It is illegal in Europe.
What is illegal? Asking you if you want to change your default search engine? That doesn’t sound illegal to me so I wonder what law is causing it to be illegal.
It is because you agreed to to the terms and conditions of the Windows operating system
Those are likely mostly unenforceable.
Run a debloat script for windows from christitustech. And if you want to start from fresh install w10/11 ltsb/ltsc and run the debloat script, that is the safest option, if you don’t want to swap to Linux.
I especially love that it was blurry. I shit you not, a blurry popup telling me to switch the search engine like some 2010 malware.
“I will make it legal.”
-Darth CEOus
Everything is legal in the US if you can lobby enough
Not quite. You can also break the law, pay a fraction of what you grifted, say sorry and then continue.
“Microsoft rewards points” wtf?
I’m not entirely sure how I’m earning Microsoft reward points, but they keep sending me $10 Amazon gift cards for them so… that’s cool anyway.
Those are one of the few Microsoft offerings that are actually good. I’ve been rolling free Game Pass Ultimate for years (with 2+ more in the bank) thanks to MS Rewards.
Wait what? That’s pretty cool!
In Europe it isn’t. But I got it too. Even worse, my default browser was changed to Bing after an update.
Even worse, my default browser was changed to Bing after an update.
Is this not literally quite almost what their first big antitrust case was all about (shipping their OS together with Internet Explorer, back then) that almost got them broken up by the state?
In a light version, yes.
European here. Which law is this breaking, exactly? Pretty sure advertising is legal
It’s no ad, it’s nudging. Without being asked even. They don’t show you a list of search engines to set as default, they ask you to switch to Bing. My system just switched to Bing without asking.
It’s no ad, it’s nudging. Without being asked even. They don’t show you a list of search engines to set as default, they ask you to switch to Bing. My system just switched to Bing without asking.
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