Was there an alternative adjective to “clockwise” other than “the rotation you take around left hand”?
Also, how did all watch companies around the world agree on what the direction of “clockwise” is?
Well, clocks are just mechanical sundials. Before clockwise, there was sunwise (or deosil), and clocks’ movements are based off of the movement of a shadow across a sundial.
Used to be sunwise and counter-sunwise.
Ok, but how about before the sun?
does that mean that “clockwise” in the southern hemisphere is backwards?
Yes, when you are in the northern hemisphere, a sundial shadow falls to the north of the gnomon (the thing that makes a shadow). This makes the shadow move from the northwest to north to northeast over a day, which is clockwise. In the southern hemisphere, the shadow from the gnomon falls to the south, so it starts in the southwest and moves to the south and then southeast, which is anticlockwise.
The most obvious way to see this is the photo of the sundial in Perth, where the hours run anticlockwise.
https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1605415745093083137?lang=en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#In_the_Southern_Hemisphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#/media/File:Sundial_in_Supreme_Court_Gardens,_Perth.jpg
Yes, because of the Coriolis effect (/j)
No, because the earth is still rotating the same direction in the southern hemisphere
I read this article and I’m more confused now lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#In_the_Southern_HemisphereEDIT: The last sentience sums it up well tho:
On horizontal northern-hemisphere sundials, and on vertical southern-hemisphere ones, the hour marks run clockwise.
Well well, learn something new everyday.
Pretty weird to think about. And about them having to either face their relevant poles or the equator for them to work equivalently
Northern sundials (both vertically mounted and horizontal versions) need to be pointed North, whereas Southern sundials need to be pointed South. The article is stating that Southern horizontal versions can be mounted vertically in the Nothern hemisphere but must be pointed South. I hope that helps, I had to re-read it a few times, myself.
A guy I know owns this clock, which basically proves that everything in life is pointless and arbitrary:
I find this deeply unsettling, please delete
Weird, this feels easier to read. Less grating somehow.
You left-handed?
Nope. Right handed. But AuDHD like there’s no tomorrow…
I guess you’re ok. I’m more of an ass man, myself, but I’ll allow it.
Thank you arse lover
I have one of these, it was a gag gift from a friend. I’ve had it up so long now though I have to double check which clock in looking at before I tell the time because I’ve got so used to it
That’s pretty cool. Also, your username contains an anagram of the name of the man who owns the clock from my comment. That’s also pretty cool.
Also why the seemingly arbitrary graduations, 24 hours, 60 minutes, 60 seconds. If it was say 10 hours in a day, 100 minutes in an hour, 100 seconds in a minute, seconds would be close to the same amount of time. Same with latitude and longitude, why 360 degrees in a circle with 60 minutes in a degree and 60 seconds in a minute.
These numbers aren’t arbitrary, they are from different base numbering systems.
60 can easily divide by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10.
12 can easily divide by 2, 3, 4, and 6 (notice how much overlap there is).
10 only divides easily by 2 and 5. Common fractions like 1/4 or 1/3 now require decimals.
Basically, base 12 and base 60 make it significantly easier to think and work in common fractions.
It is also historically significant, as base 12 used to be more common than modern base 10. Our timekeeping system dates back to the ancient Babylonians, who worked in base 12. This influence is still felt in other places, such as the fact that eleven and twelve have unique names in many languages rather than following the same pattern as everything that comes after them.
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The short explanation is that those numbers are more easily divided by a larger set of denominators. 24 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 12. 100 is divisble by 2, 5, 10, 25, and 50. 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30.
Metric is great for scaling up and down ad infinitum, but it sucks for fractions. Fractions are easier for daily use without precision measuring equipment.
Other commenters hit on the reasoning, just adding that they’re called highly composite numbers. My favorite!
Turnwise and widdershins. I read it in a book once.
Sunwise, as it was based on the movement of the sun during day (in the Northern hemisphere). As watch faces were modelled after sundials, sunwise and clockwise describe the same direction.
Turnwise is a word invented by Pratchett for a book, but it’s clearly based on sunwise. He also used widdershins in his book, which is indeed the unmodified antonym to sunwise.
Not just any book. The discworld series. It’s the direction the disc rotates! He has so many easy to miss spots of genius. Amongst many easy to see spots of genius
Does the sun rotate with the disc, and faster?
Wouldn’t sunwise and turnwise be in opposite directions otherwise?
The sun rotates around the disc too one of the elephants has to cock its leg every day
Deosil (sunwise) was the opposite of widdershins (against the usual). Both had a wide range of uses too, not just directionality.
Was it Name of the Wind or Wise Man’s Fear? I just read both of those and I remember looking up one of the words and going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole.
Imagine you’re in the Northern Hemisphere and you face east toward the rising sun. Over the course of the day, the sun will seem to move to the south, and then set in the west. This forms a “sunwise” turn, which is what we now call “clockwise” because we made clocks in imitation of sundials.
Good question!
The real answer seems to be “right” and “left”.
Deosil, which is the direction the shadow on a sundual moves (in the Northern Hemisphere).
Semi related: QI uploaded this bit the other day about an aboriginal tribe that can flawlessly pinpoint north/east/south/west.
Cardinal directions as references instead of left/right are often a better option when describing locations, more people should use them. It’s not like it’s hard to get an idea of where north is - even if you’re a bit challenged on the spatial awareness front basically everyone these days has a phone that will easily tell you this.
I think saying “keep turning the component to the west” wouldn’t really work.
There are obviously exceptions, hence why I said often instead of always. Think larger scale and/or involving fixed objects and cardinal directions tend to be logical, for example:
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Install the equipment in the western plant room.
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Please set up the workstation near the power point on the western wall of the room.
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Come in via Foo Rd, when you get to the intersection with Bar Rd turn west.
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My desk is in the south western corner of the office.
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Walk west along the ridge from the carpark, then once you reach the giant boulder take the northern spur down to the river.
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In czech, we have a phrase “jak sa kráje chleba” (same way as a bread is sliced). Problem is, that (at least in my social group) nobody knows, wether it means clockwise or anticlockwise, as everybody slices the bread differently.
same way as a bread is sliced
Haha interesting, but how do you slice bread by rotation? it’s up to down. That’s how you cut stuff.
- Grip the bread vertically to your chest.
- Start cutting in direction from the front to the back.
- Slowly rotate the bread, so you cut the crust only in one point (the tip of the knive moves through already cut bread).
It may be easier to see it with a short knive.
As someone who still confuses these “turn it around that way” - jiggles hand in vague motion- “oops no the other way” usually works just fine.
I have the feeling that the direction of the water in the toilet when flushing plays an important role here.
Ah yes, turdwise and widdershits as it was known in the olden days, before the invention of sundials
The first mechanical clocks were invented around 1300. The first flushing toilet was 1775.
Yup. That’s definitely “down”.
It’s just negative rotation
Yes, but it’s learning optimism.
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I don’t have an answer for the original question, but what about just saying rotate right/left?
I mean, if I imagine a circle rolling on a flat surface, rotating right means the rotation that rolls the circle right (so clockwise rotation), and rotating left would be the opposite; where the circle rolls left.
It works, but it’s ambiguous. You have to specify which part you’re referring to if you want to be sure you’re understood.
Honestly the hardest concept for me to grasp in organic chemistry was left vs right chirality. I could understand why they were different, but fuck me if i could ever consistently identify them.
You have to specify which part you’re referring to
What do you mean by that?
No matter which direction a ball rolls, part of it moves to the right, and part to the left (either top right and bottom left, or vice versa). If you don’t specify which part of the ball you’re looking at, it could be either top or bottom, so the statement is ambiguous.
but without this information, clockwise and anticlockwise also ambigous.
No, they are well-defined. There is no missing information in “clockwise”. There is missing information in “right”.
There is no “top clockwise” or “bottom clockwise”.
What if the wheel is fixed to a frame and it moves a sheet above it like a conveyor system? Is the frame of reference the direction the sheet moves or is it how the wheel moves against the sheet? What if the sheet is below it like a pasta machine or sheet metal former? That being said, “right tightly, lefty loosey” has certainly prevailed
Seit das Deutsche Reich besteht, wird die Schraube nach rechts gedreht!
It is a non-existing problem, because they were talking in other languages then.
