Good. The way it should be. Housing is not wealth storage, it’s a place to live.
Let’s hope this fall spreads out of China.That does assume the Chinese housing market is the same as in many western countries though. But if so, bring it on.
It fits somewhat with American sunbelt cities where there is significant growth and large developers building new houses. One issue which is common across borders is that real estate was a common way for people to invest their retirement savings; wiping out a lot of the savings of people near or at retirement isn’t healthy. One issue that is more local to China is that Chinese provinces and municipalities have little ability to raise taxes, so they’ve been using development as a way to raise money; a lot of these governments have a lot of debt and few good ways to pay it back.
The problem is that a lot of Chinese elderly used housing as a storage of wealth.
A few years ago in China a guy went viral on billibilli (their version of YouTube) for covering how hard it was to be retired in China. The CCP took his Channel away and censored him. Funnily enough in the years since the CCP has made strides in increasing the payout of their social security system.
So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.
Honestly --minus the censorship-- I wish the US would handle it this way. Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts. The elderly have earned their right to take a break from the grind of capitalism. They should be relaxing and passing on what they’ve learned from their time on earth to the next generation.
My relaxation plan is suicide. Just like other millineals. Even though I’ve done way above average, there is no way I’ll ever retire. It’s literally illigical for me to not commit suicide. Who wants to be exhausted with nothing to look forward to?
That would make the wealthy very happy if you did that. They wouldn’t have to pay taxes for your retirement.
My advice – if you can’t overcome your cynicism, go on to spite those fuckers who refuse to pay you enough for a comfortable retirement. To spite those who have denied you hope for the future, who want to work you to the bone and throw you in the trash.
Fuck those people, every breath you take is one less breath for Elon.
Having said that, we can organize and fight for a kinder world, that includes better social security that can pay for a comfortable retirement with people you care about. Don’t let your cynicism devour you.
A better world is possible, take action. Join DSA or start a union or join another org. Mamdani has proven the system is not invincible.
I have tried and tried. Got three STEM degrees and 20 years experience, and still never known job security. Now I’m about to be laid off again. I’m tired boss. My family can survive if I check out, but might not if I don’t. It’s a bit of a situation.
It’s not spite to continue being exhausted so a few assholes can be rich. I feel like it’s more harmful to live. I’m also coming to terms that I’m a miserable person, so maybe I was never meant to be here in the first place.
It sounds like you have people around you who care about you. I don’t know how much I, a random stranger on the internet can help. But know you’re not alone in your feelings. Consider seeking out professional help if you’re able to.
It may very well be irrational to keep on going. The universe doesn’t guarantee us a happy existence. But understand it’s irrational from a place of ego. Other people need you for their emotional well being if nothing else.
Hope is a thing with feathers, it may return someday. We must embrace hope long past time when it is rational, so that someday it may pirch again. Even if not for us.
This video has helped me work through these feelings some.
Friend, there are millions of us millennials out here who are in the same boat. You are not alone. I am confident we will, as a generation, improve living conditions for all of us in this lifetime. Capitalism is in its death throes and it sucks that we have to deal with all of the side effects of that, but we have the power to forge new ways of living, and will likely have no choice but to do just that in the near future.
So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.
Being criticized meant they were losing face. Saving face is very important in many Asian cultures.
Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts
Not gonna work in an aging society unfortunately. Social security payouts come from current taxes. If you don’t have enough young people, you can’t really fund social security. If you have a national pension fund that collects money for your retirement as YOU work, it’s not too different from a 401k, the only difference is who has control over it. Most countries don’t do that though.
Fun story: My country has a system similar to 401k (it has deferred taxation, reduced taxation and government matching, so basically free money), but you couldn’t take money out of it until retirement… Until a few years ago when conservatives changed it, so now you can take money out, but if you do, you pay full taxes and you can’t resume payments for 10 years. At least a third of the country took that opportunity. Our equivalent of social security hasn’t been significantly increased and in fact retirement age is being raised by roughly a month a year currently because otherwise the system would become unaffordable. At this point I’m considering cashing mine in in a few years only because I’m afraid that if the conservatives get enough power they’ll manage to pass some stupid ass law taking away everyone’s funds and using it to fund increased social security for their current old voters, at which point I’ll just lose all of it unlike the people who have taken theirs out.
All forms of retirement are funded by current workers. Social security is just more honest about it. A retired person is still consuming goods and services produced by the working without producing anything themselves.
You’re presenting your argument as if it were fact. Which is how conservatives always try to frame their arguments around social security.
Basic question, if its so impossible for it to work why is China able to do it?
Basic answer, it’s not impossible – it just requires a progressive taxation for social security where the rich pay into it more. Which is why conservatives are so against it.
Look man, money is fake the only question that ultimately matters is ‘can we produce enough stuff?’. Which in the context of modern industrial production the answer is ‘in most cases, yes’.
Certainly in terms of producing enough housing and food for the elderly the answer is yes. The only place where there might be a limitation for the elderly is healthcare. If you gotta problem with that maybe we should adopt Cuba’s healthcare system. They have more doctors per capita than any other nation on earth in spite of decades of crippling sanctions. Before Trump reintroduced the blockade they also had higher life expectancy than the US.
Increase social security payouts with what?
Yes, everyone should have a pension plan, but you have to pay into that.
No you don’t, money is fake, we made it up.
Maybe a pension system should be managed that way for inflationary reasons. But money does not exist until the state spends it into the economy. Dollars do not exist in nature.
The Chinese government made this happen to help the lower classes with home ownership. So, maybe we could use our unique rights structure to convince those with the levers here, to pull them.
There was another thing the Chinese did to landlords that we could try too
Yes, let’s.
Sounds great, normalisation is required for many housing markets. Prices of a basic utility inflated due to speculation is the actual dangerous condition we are very comfortable with and viewed as security in many countries.
Unfortunately, in China housing is the only thing they’re legally allowed lowed to “invest” in. There is no stock market, you can’t own land, you can’t buy land in foreign countries (legally). So when their market crashes 20% that’s the equivalent of the NSDAQ, housing, and subsidies markets all crashing 20% in a day, which is like beginning great depression type stuff.
That’s quite exactly the opposite of what’s true actually.
The Beijing Stock Exchange and Shanghai Stock Exchange are in fact stock markets, and they can buy land legally in many countries (there’s no Chinese law prohibiting it at least, local laws in some countries may ban foreigners from buying land). They (their rich, not common people) buy housing in other countries because it’s viewed as a better and safer investment (also because buying a home in China is a 70 year lease)
All those words for lies, wow.
Oooh, could we get some of that?
I’ll have what they’re having.
It peaked in 2021, so apparently prices have been declining for 5 years, and are still declining!!
The Chinese economy may be weird, but I don’t get how prices can fall below what they were 20 years ago, when China is much richer today than they were back then? We were told for a long time China was in a huge housing bubble, but this is crazy!
This will guaranteed ruin many peoples economy for decades even for the rest of their lives. And many will be tied to their house because it’s impossible to sell at a price that will clear the debt, so they can’t afford to move.
In a normal market it’s nice to own your own house, but a market like this, if you bought 5 years ago, it’s a nightmare.The housing market is different in China. Most home are paid entirely at sale without a loan.
You’re also not truly buying the land, because private land ownership is illegal in China. Instead, you’re buying land usage rights for a long period (usually 70 years). Then it gets returned to the state (or the local farming collective, if you’re in a rural area that is managed locally) after your lease is up.
Basically, you can own your house, (the materials used to build it, the items inside of it, etc), but not the land it is built on. So after that 70 year lease is up, you (or more likely, your descendants) will need to either move off the land or sign a new land use contract with the applicable government (either local or state level).
And there’s always a chance that the government goes “actually we need to use that land for the public interest” and they can refuse to re-sign the lease. Maybe they want to turn it into a public park, or build a railway through the area, or use it for extra farmland. The same way the US government can seize an American’s land via eminent domain, the Chinese government can revoke a land use agreement.
But having an expected time the city can have the land back do helps with planning with development, or modernize run down buildings.
It being a lease means you also can very easily plan ahead your maintenance by funding it through the sale of the land upfront, not that much difference than collecting property tax except it is actually valued based on the land not the building on top of it.
It’s better if land is not owned by an estate forever.
liberals crying lmfao
Been in China many times for weeks at a time. DO NOT WANT TO LIVE HERE.
Time to buy a vacation home in China?
Breaking news, looks like I’m applying for Chinese citizenship.
