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Does anyone find it a little psychopathic that there are people who enjoy killing animals?
I’ll say this first, because I know this is a whopper of a comment from me, but it’s stuff you might not encounter otherwise: your perspective matters in this thread, and overall. I deeply understand the place your comment comes from, for real. We need people like you, and people like you have caused me several times in my life to examine what I’m doing and change my behavior. I will not call you extreme, because, honestly, it is not, and I will make every effort to engage in good faith, with you and others. I expect the same in return though.
I know a lot of hunters and do some hunting myself. In my area, hunting is an old tradition and, though I feel it’s on the decline, everyone knows someone who hunts, and (if they eat meat) has eaten wild deer or turkey or fish that’s been harvested locally.
“Enjoyment” over killing animals is something I’ve never heard expressed by any hunter. If someone did (and I can only speak for myself and my community) they would be treated with immense suspicion and shunned. If I can be blunt and frank, it is a shallow and ignorant take on the activity. I’m not trying to put you down by saying that, but it is true. I would encourage further examination of what you think you know of this topic. I can’t force it though. You retain the sovereign right to remain ignorant, it’s fine, for real, but that will cause people like me to disengage and we’ll go our separate ways. You will have more success advancing your view if you choose to learn more, though. But again, I get it, that is the more challenging route and I wouldn’t blame you one bit for choosing not to. No harm, no foul, for real.
That actually may be the one part of hunting that we don’t enjoy.
I enjoy being in the woods.
I enjoy hiking into the woods while it’s dark, and witnessing the changes as the sun comes up and the animals awake.
I enjoy the exercise aspect, and also nerding out over gear.
I experience satisfaction over being able to feed myself and people I care about in this way. This is related to the closeness to this food, being able to close that loop myself without any help from a middleman or needing to ship bananas 3000 miles and what have you. Knowing and participating first hand in the entire process of getting that to the plate satisfies the “sustainable foodie” part of my brain. There is also connection to the land on which you live, which is hard to explain and must be experienced.
The actual killing of the animal produces complicated emotions. “Enjoyment” isn’t one of them. It’s also .001% of the process. Regardless, I go to tremendous lengths to ensure that the process goes as quickly, smoothly, and painlessly as possible, and other hunters I know also do this. This is heavily pushed. Ideally, when that moment comes, the animal does not detect you at all and it happens so quickly they do not even clock what happened. They experience no suffering or even discomfort, that is the goal, and that is what modern, humane hunting is. It’s many times more humane than anything that happens every day in nature. Mistakes unfortunately do happen sometimes, that is an unfortunate reality, so we must plan for that too, have backup plans and backups for the backups, and the tools to do so. This activity requires a certain level of maturity and thought which is not for everyone.
In my state, hunting regulations are informed by the science of wildlife biologists, and limits and rules are designed to enhance the animal populations they apply to. All healthy, reasonable people who spend time in the woods love wildlife on a very deep level, and we all do what we can to protect that natural resource, so they are there for generations to come, hunter or not. It may seem counterintuitive, but sometimes this includes population control. Bag limits and dates change year to year, and we do our best to follow the rules, keep up with new information, and understand the consequences of everything we do, the tools we use, every decision. The ethical modern hunter is a partner to the conservationist and the wildlife biologist, and is an important part (but not the only part) of keeping wild ecosystems alive and in balance, in spite of humanity.
This perspective is likely different from your own - I’m well aware of that. Hopefully you can take something from it. Hunters are not all elmer fudd. Those are not hunters - that is the consensus now. Our Fish & Game folks (the only “good cops” IMO) love to slip cuffs around those types and send them to jail. Those people do still exist, and we hate it, because they show up in the news and give us a bad name. There are thousands more people like me, but you won’t hear about us. So and so two towns over who bought a hunting license online and tries to follow all the rules: not on the news. My own uncle who accidentally killed two turkeys instead of one, who immediately self-reported to F&G because he cares and has integrity? Also not on the news. Doing things the right way is relatively uninteresting.
You may have seen those images of the mountains of buffalo skulls made by white colonial settlers as they raped and killed their way through the West. That is not hunting - not as I know it, not as even my grandfather knew it. It is barbarism in its purest form, basically genocidal and psychopathic, disgusting, a black mark in history, and the American buffalo is still struggling to this day because of these horrendous acts that only humans are capable of at scale.
A more uplifting story I would encourage anyone to look into is that of the Wild Turkey in America, and how they were brought back from the brink, thanks to the cooperation and ingenuity of wildlife biologists in most of the 50 states. That one was mostly due to habitat loss rather than overhunting. (A surprising number of people don’t know this, but nearly the entire Eastern half of the US’s forests (like 90%+) have been subject to complete deforestation at least twice during our history, for industry. You can find pictures of the denuded landscapes - places that are now protected, healthy forests - and it is distressing.) Anyway, the wild turkey program was so successful, hunting is now part of that story.
https://www.audubon.org/new-york/news/how-wild-turkeys-made-49-state-comeback
What a great explanation, thank you for taking the time to write it. I’m not the OP, but…
I’m involved every year in a large charity auction/party which includes the Dept of Natural Resources, lots of hunting guns, and trips to go hunting in different areas. As a basic bitch treehugger, I personally have no desire to hunt. But I definitely understand those who do. At the end of the day, treehuggers and responsible hunters want the same thing, and hunting is a valuable tool in maintaining an ecosystem’s balance. I’m glad I don’t have to do it, but if they want to that’s cool. I’ll also gladly take their venison jerky when offered.
You seem to have never met the type “German pensioner with a hunting license”. It appears most of them are sadistic fucks who get drunk in their watchtowers and then blast away.
Not to confuse with legitimate forest keepers / rangers.
For everything Europe does 10x better than us, conservation of wilderness doesn’t seem terribly high on the list. I know it’s a mixed bag, attitudes are bound to vary, and there must be efforts, but it seems for the few countries I’ve visited the opportunity has come and gone. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Conservation is one of just a few unifying issues for everyone in the States, regardless of political persuasion. It’s a good litmus test for identifying the true psychos vs those who are just ignorant or misled, and also one of the few good things we actually have license to brag about as a country. We’ve done reasonably well for a very long time.
Now, though, the game has changed, and the forest service along with everything else is being gutted. I believe most won’t stand for it. It will be interesting as summer is starting, when the suburbanites can’t get their usual camp sites.
No, humans are designed to kill animals, eat their meat, and use other parts for clothing and more.
Humans aren’t designed
I never said they were intelligently designed. Evolution is an iterative, stochastic design process that produced a bunch of badass motherfuckers that stunt on everything else on this planet- us. Our ancestors needed dopamine reward systems to encourage them to hunt and to kill. It is how they survived to produce us. It is baked into our DNA.
I do not hunt, personally. I am disabled. However, I respect those that do. It’s in their blood. Who are we to judge? No one is perfect, and that’s the whole point.
Our ancestors needed dopamine reward systems to encourage them to hunt and to kill. It is how they survived to produce us. It is baked into our DNA. It’s in their blood.
That’s very speculative, and indistinguishable from the texas sharpshoorter fallacy.
Humans are opportunistic omnivores, first and foremost, and gained a huge advantage being able to do endurance hunting. We have better energy management and less prone to overheating. Which means it’s equally (if not more) valid to say that humans were designed to eat roadkill that we find on the side of the road. Doesn’t sound as badass now.
But since people notoriously can’t survive on meat alone, but can survive and thrive on plant-based diet, walking around and picking everything that smells good is in our blood, if there is anything there at all
Humans are also designed to kill other humans, rape their family, and take their resources. But that’s not considered polite anymore.
Hey that’s fine but I don’t have a problem with killing animals to survive. It’s the enjoyment of doing so that gets me. Hunting for sport, for example. Or even hunting for food. It’s not necessary in the modern era. Nobody has to hunt. They do it for fun, and that’s psychopathic to me.
I think the hunting part is kind of fun. Going camping, learning the habits of the animals nearby, finding a place to take advantage of those habits, etc.
It’s the actual killing part I wouldn’t be able to do. But since I do eat meat I can’t fault hunters. In fact, I suspect a lot of hunters who do eat the animal actually have a lot of respect and sadness for the actual kill, and try hard to make it as humane as possible.
Evolution has given us dopamine receptors that reward hunting. It’s not as necessary in modern society, but nevertheless, our ancestors needed it.
For the record, I don’t hunt. I was forced to as a kid, but I’m disabled and I couldn’t really do it. It was a horrible experience and I don’t want to hurt anything.
That doesn’t mean I don’t understand that others are different. I accept them.
People aren’t hunters by nature, we can’t hunt or kill anything without tools, and we had tools for less time than we have dopamine receptors, by a cosmic margin.
This is horrible. And the fact people find this entertaining is half concerning, half disgusting.
It’s also illegal to hunt by luring deer with feed.
Not in the great state of Oregon for some reason!
The crime in this case is hitting it with a hammer. Most states explicitly say what methods of take are legal and a hammer ain’t one of em.
Hunting over bait is quite common in the south. It’s bullshit, but quite widespread.
Worth knowing, even if legality is not necessary a mark of much else than legal status. It feels pretty immoral in any case.
I’ve got bad news for you about what humans have been doing for their entire existence.
Yep. And lots of people on Facebook are proud of their kills and change their profile photo to display them. Despite the fact the deer isn’t armed
Those same people trying to look like badasses are the same ones who lose their mind when park gates are closed for seasonal closures and are too lame to pack carry here in Australia
Id say let them hunt. But. Put land mines that detect humans in the same area, and strap guns to the deer with people detection on them
Give the deer an equal fight.
I’m not sure if this is the most or least humane kill I’ve ever heard of …
When exactly is roofing hammer hunting season for deer?
Just after Construction Season. What do you think roofers do to survive the lean months between jobs?
What’s a state park tag?
Not a hunter, but I play one on the internet. When you buy a hunting license you pay for a deer tag. When you kill a deer, you attach your tag to the antler or ear. Most states allow one harvest per season.
Ah thanks for explaining.
Ultimate bait and switch.
Anon practicing for people
