Outdoor recreation often slips into what I call an achievement-based relationship with nature. I’ve been guilty of it myself. Whether it’s “bagging peaks”, racing to finish the AT, or stamping the land with machines and monuments, the focus shifts from ecology to ego.
Being obsessed with Peak Bagging is not Solarpunk.
Nature is not your personal obstacle to challenge yourself against, it is a shared place of discovery you trample when you only see it as a place to endlessly, exhaustingly conquer.
Yeahhhh. I have always hated hiking with a group, because I want to stop and look at the neat flora and fauna, then everybody gets pissy at me for holding up the group.
Fuck me for wanting to know more about the shit that lives here, I guess.
As soon as you get into that hiking rhythm and are thoroughly into a cardio workout, you aren’t noticing shit around you. Most of the time when you are hiking you are less present in the natural world than you would be if you were sitting inside calmly looking out the window watching a stretch of woods.
Hiking is fun, it is good for people, I am not bashing getting out and walking in nature but honestly for me walks in the woods are so much more fulfilling than most hikes these days for me. I can walk at a slower pace and focus on remaining present and aware of the forest around me. Often times I will just sit and do nothing for 20 minutes and just enjoy the feeling of the forest happening around me. Hiking to the top of a beautiful mountain after I got up super early to drive for a couple of hours and then rushed to the top pushing myself to the peak of my physical capability just doesn’t do it for me.
I don’t know, I think it is because of how many digital places I have explored and how many photographs and videos I have seen of stunning places on earth… going there myself is of course different but I find myself dogged by the question “Why?”. Why do I need to climb to the top of Everest to see it MYSELF?". It is kind of an ego thing but it is also about the fact that even if I did climb to the top of Everest I do think I would still, in the majesty of that moment atop the tallest mountain in the world wonder “…but why did I need to come here myself when so many others already have? With video cameras, cameras, notebooks… leaving trash and human impact everywhere on one of the most unique spots on earth with all the gear one could imagine. Am I exploring or trampling?”.
In many hikers I have known there is a severe hierarchy of landscapes that are worth spending time in and that are not worth spending time in. Hikers will drive hours and hours past vast landscapes they completely ignore to reach one particular place. In a way that is cool and expresses passion but in another way it is a statement about how blind these people are to the landscapes between them and the “ideal nature” that they desire in a superficial way. It represents a deeply unhealthy subconscious perspective on natural spaces as exotic and beyond our everyday. No, do the opposite, go for a boring walk in your community, go for a local walk up that hill that is kind of lame and take it slow, train yourself to see the beauty of the nature beckoning you into the moment already around you… Our desire to NEED the most beautiful mountain or natural vista is destructive towards nature itself even if it feels like we are in love with nature when we feel it.
Within me is not a hierarchy of landscapes, sure I love an incredible vista but a normal mediocre walk in the woods surrounded by normal woodland life in an unremarkable nature preserve near where I live is what I will think about on my death bed for sure… I don’t think I will regret I didn’t climb that last mountain on my list because that shit doesn’t matter.
This is a clickbait/ragebait headline, which has little to do with the article itself.
The article itself is essentially a travel blog post about this guy’s vacation and the very emotional emotions he experienced during it.
The title and post content are just weirdly judgemental nonsense. If you want to go into nature to lay under a tree and listen to crickets chirp, that’s great. Do that. But if you want to go into nature to challenge yourself, that’s also great, you can do that, too. If someone shows up at a trailhead and says “Imma run around this loop and try really hard”, then their experience will be different from listening to crickets chirp, but no less legitimate - they will feel their body moving, their lungs burning, their heart pounding. The wind on their face and their sweat on their skin. And they will finish with a visceral experience of being in that particular place, doing that particular thing, at that particular time. But importantly, they were able to have that experience because they set the goal “run around the loop”.
If someone shows up at a trailhead and says “Imma run around this loop and try really hard”, then their experience will be different from listening to crickets chirp, but no less legitimate - they will feel their body moving, their lungs burning, their heart pounding. The wind on their face and their sweat on their skin. And they will finish with a visceral experience of being in that particular place, doing that particular thing, at that particular time. But importantly, they were able to have that experience because they set the goal “run around the loop”.
Yes and you just described a totally internal experience that relies little on the details of the outside environment other than the burden and challenge it places on the body.
I am not bashing this type of pursuit I am saying it is fundamentally selfish and is a different pursuit than trying to actually connect with, observe and know nature by listening instead of pressing your body to its physical limit just to prove you can and get those sweet exercise drug chemicals going in your brain.
The person who spends time listening to crickets chirp will walk away with an externally rich memory of all the wildlife they listened to carefully, all of the rhythms of the forest and the unique creatures and events they happened to catch by being slow and quiet. The person who spent the entire time running will primarily remember the experience of running, the details of the external are just snapshots and set dressing to theme the run in their memories.
I am saying it is fundamentally selfish and is a different pursuit than trying to actually connect with, observe and know nature by listening instead of pressing your body to its physical limit just to prove you can and get those sweet exercise drug chemicals going in your brain.
That really comes off as very elitist, IMO.
Why?
By saying jogging through nature is inherently selfish compared to walking through it. I’d also say you pretty clearly look down upon those who like to exercise in nature based on your other comments here, and your framing of people doing it for ‘the drug chemicals’.
You say you’re not bashing them, but I’m not sure that defense works since you’re kind’ve framing a different way of experiencing nature as inherently inferior and ‘selfish’ compared to your preferred way, instead of framing it as two equally valid ways to experience it (as long as it doesn’t hurt the local ecology, or leave any litter).
The overall vibe I get is a sense of elitism that only your own preferred slower way of taking in nature and pondering it is the truly valid and meaningful way of experiencing it. But that’s just my 2 cents.
By saying jogging through nature is inherently selfish compared to walking through it. I’d also say you pretty clearly look down upon those who like to exercise in nature based on your other comments here, and your framing of people doing it for ‘the drug chemicals’.
I like drugs, I have no problem with taking drugs I just don’t like when people pretend they aren’t taking drugs when they are.
You say you’re not bashing them, but I’m not sure that defense works since you’re kind’ve framing a different way of experiencing nature as inherently inferior and ‘selfish’ compared to your preferred way, instead of framing it as two equally valid ways to experience it (as long as it doesn’t hurt the local ecology, or leave any litter).
Yes and you are framing this conversation in a way that if I criticize a broad cultural movement centered around the outdoors for being shallow this necessarily means I think I am superior. You allow no other perspective other than one that agrees with your own unless that perspective is relativistic about everything with no judgements possible at all.
I can criticize outdoor culture without being selfish or adopting a position of assumed superiority and even if I was those things it doesn’t actually negate the points I am making since I am arguing the overall selfishness of outdoor culture is even greater? We are all a part of this problem as we are all part of the same society.
I just don’t like when people pretend they aren’t taking drugs when they are.
There are many people who do not appear to experience ‘runners high’. I am one of those people, I have never experienced any noticeable pleasant side-effects from exercise itself, just a rather unpleasant burning sensation in my lungs. Regardless, I still ride my bike or jog to maintain my health, and I vastly prefer doing so amongst nature if I can.
you are framing this conversation in a way that if I criticize a broad cultural movement centered around the outdoors for being shallow this necessarily means I think I am superior.
Claiming the way an entire subset of other people experience nature is inferior and shallow compared to yours is kinda the definition of a sense of superiority, yeah.
I have no problem criticizing people who litter in nature, or destroy it in some way, but putting every jogger into the same box, with disregard to the variability of those people’s respect and appreciation of nature just due to the way they personally enjoy it? Oof.
There are many people who do not appear to experience ‘runners high’. I am one of those people, I have never experienced any noticeable pleasant side-effects from exercise itself, just a rather unpleasant burning sensation in my lungs.
Have you tried exercising less intensely? I never got runner’s high until I started jogging in the low aerobic range, which is when you can speak in full sentences while running without getting out of breath (around 133 bpm for a 30 year old). If you’re getting a burning sensation in your lungs, you’re touching the anaerobic range (around 152 bmp for a 30 year old), which is too fast for a runner’s high AFAIK.
For me, coming out of competitive ameteur/high school sports, it felt unnaturally slow to learn jogging, even embarrassing at times, shuffling around at 8 km/h. Yet at the end there was regularly a runner’s high, and over time and mixing it up with higher-end aerobic exercises and anaerobic sprints, my aerobic running speed increased. I learned to be in conversation with my body rather than relying on external metrics, now I just run at a speed that feels natural and playful, varying from run to run based on how I feel in the moment.
Claiming the way an entire subset of other people experience nature is inferior and shallow compared to yours is kinda the definition of a sense of superiority, yeah
I am arguing our cultural framing around outdoor culture is inferior and shallow compared to a deeper more thoughtful relationship with the natural world and and an awareness of the living history of colonialism as it bends and warps our perspective our relationship with nature.
If you do not allow me this without labelling me as attempting to claim I am superior than you simply do not allow any kind of criticism of your beliefs/actions in this area. How else am I supposed to interpet this?
The person who spends time listening to crickets chirp will walk away with an externally rich memory of all the wildlife they listened to carefully
I’m planning to climb an El Cap route in about a week. I expect that my goal oriented pursuit will leave me with some equally rich memories of the sun beating on my back as starlings swoop past me. I will see hawks gliding on the thermals at eye level. The breeze across the face will be a welcome relief, and I will become intimately familiar with the bumps, edges, cracks, and seams in the rock as I search for placements for my hooks and pitons - my attention heightened by the potential to take a 100’ fall if I make a poor descision. And with my day’s labor done, I will lay in my portaledge dangling several hundred feet off the ground and look at the stars, marvelling at the beauty of nature around me and the joy of being in such an incredible position.
I am currently thinking about going out into the park near where I live and experiencing a beautiful sunny day as songbirds fly by me.
as starlings swoop past me
An invasive species introduced by someone with a vision about what nature should be not what it was.
I am currently thinking about going out into the park near where I live and experiencing a beautiful sunny day as songbirds fly by me.
That sounds very nice. I hope you enjoy that.
An invasive species introduced by someone with a vision about what nature should be not what it was.
I just think they’re neat
An invasive species introduced by someone with a vision about what nature should be not what it was.I just think they’re neat
So… you like the aesthetic of them and you aren’t interested in examining it any deeper?
Exactly. I am witnessing nature rather than egotistically analyzing it, making myself feel big and smart by categorizing living creatures into categories like “invasive”. I have moved beyond the need to do such things (it’s very impressive - are you impressed?), and now am able to appreciate the true beauty of nature and the connectedness of the world - unlike those big dumb dummies who keep insisting that “doing things” like “thinking” is a valid way to live
No I am not impressed you don’t examine the world around you with a curious and analytical mind.
I am not bashing this type of pursuit I am saying it is fundamentally selfish and is a different pursuit than trying to actually connect with, observe and know nature by listening instead of pressing your body to its physical limit just to prove you can and get those sweet exercise drug chemicals going in your brain.
Look at you proving your own point. So you’re saying that your way of hiking is inherently better and more meaningful? Yeah that certainly sounds like an out of control ego.
Not everyone enjoys things the same way you do. Not everyone finds meaning the same way you do. As long as they aren’t preventing others from enjoying the trail whichever way they use the trail is valid.
You seem to have strong opinions on how other people enjoy things. You also seems to want to dictate the proper way to enjoy what you enjoy. You also seems to think you can predict what memories will form in someone else’s mind. Check your own ego. I think the call might be coming from inside the house.
You seem to have strong opinions on how other people enjoy things. You also seems to want to dictate the proper way to enjoy what you enjoy. You also seems to think you can predict what memories will form in someone else’s mind. Check your own ego. I think the call might be coming from inside the house.
Yes I have strong opinions about people enjoy nature, that does not mean I want to dictate the way to enjoy what I enjoy it means I am criticizing the motivations at the heart of some other people who enjoy a thing I enjoy.
I have checked my own ego, I have not claimed I am better than other people for enjoying nature the way I do, rather I am pointing out that the embedded assumptions in popular outdoor culture are problematic and we need to examine them. How is that being egotistical?
Criticizing someone’s motivations for enjoying a thing you enjoy is inherently placing yourself above the people you are criticizing. That is the essence of egotism.
You called people selfish for using hiking trails for exercise and personal lmorovement. That is saying that your motivations are better than theirs because selfishness is generally recognized as a negative trait and you are saying that their motivations are selfish while yours are somehow not
You enjoy a quiet hike through nature, taking note of the beauty of the natural world around you. Others might enjoy a run through challenging terrain and pushing their body past their previously believed limits. Still others might enjoy a noisy walk through the woods with their family as they trek to the perfect cook out spot to enjoy their time together. None of these is any better than the others. No one needs to be calling anyone else selfish for having these motivations.
If you had some other point you need to do a better job of communicating it.
I don’t understand why people frame hiking challenges as conquering nature. It’s clearly conquering your own internal limitations, not anything external. But framing aside, challenging yourself is a great thing to do.
ive seen Chinese tourists deface trees so it’s not just America
Chinese tourists are in a league of their own.
Challenging yourself against nature is a valid way to appreciate it; it can help you humble yourself and get in tune with your body and build a connection to nature.
Nature does not have to be a shared experience to be valid, doing stuff by yourself is an ok way to experience nature, too.
You’re being pretty judgemental of how people like to enjoy nature, when you should be encouraging people to enjoy nature.
That isn’t solarpunk.
Nature does not have to be a shared experience to be valid
Yes it does, otherwise you are just moving around a living landscape remaining isolated from it. Going into nature is inherently a shared experience, that is my point.
You’re saying being by yourself in nature is being isolated from it? What are you on?
Going into nature is not inherently a shared experience, that’s just objectively like, wrong.
Also you know hiking and climbing and those things where you challenge yourself are usually group activities anyway, right?
I’ve read the article and a lot of the opinions stated in this thread. You gotta let go of this one, dog. People live their lives the way they want to, and as long as it’s harmless to others it’s not anybody else’s business.
That said, way too many generalizations both implicit and explicit here, including in the article itself. It sounds like the aim of the article and comments made are just looking for someone to be angry at. But I’d wager that those people actually out experiencing, even just existing in, nature are not the ones to whom that anger should be pointed. Redirect your focus, don’t attack your fellow people.
That happens to every hobby in the U.S. Passionate people share the things they love and eventually a whole subgroup turns it into a competition and eventually a business. It’s terrible.
As an Appalachian I see much of the same harm Joe Whittle is witnessing and describing, however I see the root issue differently. The problem isn’t hikers, the problem is a white supremacist culture that devalues downtime. Perhaps I simply have a different perspective on what “hiking culture” is. But I see these assaults on our trees and our cairns through similar eyes. Too many Outsiders come to this land without any reverence for that the land does not exist in service of them, and that they are guests on it. They see the people who live on the land, be they Cherokee, Lenape, Melungeon, or Appalachian as being either backwards, in the way, or in some way mystically other from themselves. Something other than truly human, worthy of respect or listening to for wisdom.
Then again, I’m also realizing in this moment that I have sat and listened to Joe speak. We have eaten together. He and I share many of the same outlooks, and perhaps what I am experiencing right now is that I am not who he is trying to speak to through this article. I’m going to spend some time reflecting on this.
I will say this. The hiking culture I grew up in emphasizes the importance of both having hikes and trail runs where you have maintained goals that you seek to achieve, but also days where you are just out on the trail. You are not meant to leave any announcement of your presence to anyone else on the mountain. You are meant to leave the trail beautiful and enjoyable for others. You frequently hear “Take nothing but photos, leave only footprints” however the slogan I was presented was “Tread lightly and treasure your memories.” I much prefer our version. Do not tramp, tromp, or traipse. Walk, run, or bike with purpose. Not the purpose of achieving anything, I mean, but the purpose of taking consideration to all of the other denizens you are connected with in the woods. And if you are witnessing the world around you through a lens, you are not truly witnessing it, instead secondarily observing it.
Again, this is not to say you shouldn’t, if you enjoy taking photos in the woods, stop. Merely that you should spend some time in the woods without a camera, only the emergency beacon equipment you need in case you are injured.
JFC dude/dudette/whatever, calm down.
Does your hippy-ass even know what a camp-site police-call is? (hint: it’s not the one where law enforcement get’s involved, at-all) I’ll bet you hate scouting with a burning passion too.
I like my crickets chirping, frogs croaking, crows cawing, maybe even an owl hooting around sun-rise with a cigarette, an energy-drink, and a mild(or not) post-bourbon hangover. I’ll bet you have a problem with that too.
If that’s not the persona you’re trying to portray, realize its exactly what’s coming through in your comments.
You’re ego is sprinkled all-over the place here, and it looks a lot like self-fellation resulting in un-solicited jizz and excrement. I guess at least its bio-degradable, but you need a shower after this hike as much as any gym-bro, and likely smell worse for the lack of exertion-sweat to compete with all that “not”-ego.
What are you actually trying to say here other than attempting to shame me for daring to critically question your relationship to nature?
Oh noes, I matched your energy and like a quarter of the words you’ve spent expressing it. I’m the bad-guy now.
Imagine going into nature looking for bad-guys.
