Survivorship bias. All the ones that broke aren’t around anymore.
They were way more repairable though. We had a gas dryer that lasted 40 years and was only replaced because we moved somewhere without gas.
It was basically a big egg timer with an electric motor and a gas burner. You could fix anything on it with a crescent wrench, screwdriver, and off-the-shelf components from the hardware store for about 9 bucks.
The replacement dryer has had to have $1000+ circuit boards replaced more than once.
The WTF here is not necessarily that some component on the circuit board failed, but that the manufacturer charges $400-$1000 for it with a straight face and gets away with it when they undoubtedly have that board made in China for about $4 per unit.
The big thing you and a lot of posters are missing is what happens when those parts aren’t made anymore. With a standard motor that uses a start capacitor, you can get that cap or motor as a generic part or from another manufacturer, if your modern appliance eats its vfd board now, you can replace it for $$$. If it dies in 8 years, its probably already been discontinued and you are sol even if you wanted to pay for it.
Not necessarily. Less parts, less complex mechanisms = lower probability of something breaking down.
Also there was a time where companies actually cared. They would send the engineers for the next model out with service techs servicing current models to help them find the common failure points and help make things more servicable.
Also there was a time where companies actually cared.
:-/
Planned Obselence was pioneered nearly a century ago. You might have individual service reps or salesman with a soul. But no company has ever carried about more than profits.
Longevity was supposedly a goal for manufacturers in the GDR.
in the GDR
Yes, but that’s Evil Communism. Didn’t you see the movie “The Dryers of Others”?
Also imprecise engineering tended to overbuild things.
Thanks to better manufacturing techniques, engineering analysis, and the fine humans in management, we have gotten really good at barely building a machine that lasts just long enough to be out of warranty.
The ‘modern’ stuff breaks down faster due to 1) the fact that engineering has improved so much that obsolescence can be planned without compromising functionality. 2) ‘Modern’ stuff tries to cram in multiple features which are not necessary for its basic function. For this I blame the lack of diligence from buyers. The increased complexity means more parts that can fail. I bring up the example of SystemD (no offense to anyone, user’s choice).
Which is fine. You’d think they’d just refine those further. Today we’d have ultra efficient tanks that take little water, little energy, and never break.
Everything breaks eventually. Entropy always increases.
I’m assuming CFC might have been a better coolant, that’s why those old fridges are so good
^as said by somebody who never had to replace the motor on their washer, or the burned on their range, or the belt on their dryer, or the elements in the water heater…
The reason they always worked forever was because your dad bought replacement parts from the appliance repair store and didn’t complain to you about it.
This is literally one of the top 3 good things about YouTube
have repaired my oven twice (15 years) and dryer three times (16 years). it’s amazing how many appliances can be repaired if people just take the time to dig into it.
unless it has a screen. fuck everything about that shit.
We tried to repair our washing machine but the fuckers designed it in such a way that the drum and bearing or something of the sort are inseparabale and thus you cannot just replace rhe bearing which was fucked in ours but you have to get the whole assembly. So instead of a probably 50-100€ worth of parts the repair would be in the 200-300€ range and at that point it made no sense spending that much money on a 6 year old machine.
ooof
They weren’t smart enough to maximize shareholder value :P
You can buy appliances without smart features still?
Best Buy has dozens, if not hundreds, of fridges without smart features. I can buy a 18cu top freezer fridge for $450 right now.
That same type of fridge back in the 1970s cost $300-$400. Adjusted for inflation that’s $2,000
So I don’t get this post. You can buy cheap fridges still and it’ll probably last a long time if you take care of it. Read repair reports or Google random problems for a fridge you’re looking to buy to see the most common failure points and see what the repair cost would be to factor in future costs.
Stupid post.
Yep. Have four of those type. Occasionally, once a decade or so, I have to maintain em. But otherwise I milk em. Like cows.
If you are thinking of how you milk a washing machine, Imma ask if you been thinkin hard enough
You mean those things that are 10x less efficient?
I too can build a wooden box that will last you multiple lifetimes. But it won’t keep your food cold.
It’s not because of efficiency that things last less time now.
Crucial parts that used to be made of metal are now plastic to save money, etc.
If you think the concept of saving money on shoddy parts was invented this decade you just never paid attention. “Metal” isn’t some kind of magic substance that just works forever, cheap cast bullshit iron can shatter quicker than you can say “structural integrity”.
The reason everyone is glazing up this old appliances is because of survivorship bias, everyone sees one on the million devices and doesn’t see millions of old bullshits that disintegrated into nothingness over years.There literally are cases of switching from steel moving parts to plastic in appliances. Plus many manufacturers no longer sell spare parts past past maybe a year or two.
Appliances used to cost actual money so they had to be reliable and more importantly, repairable. Good luck finding spare parts for most washing machines or TVs nowadays. They’re designed to be thrown away because otherwise you no longer have any reason to upgrade. At least 50 years ago, technology changed fast enough that you’d have incentive to upgrade for efficiency, features, etc.
TV is quite unique because they’re cheap so you watch ads and they watch you and sell your data. You don’t repair them not because you can’t but because it’s cheaper to buy a new one because with TV you are the product.
With all the rest you absolutely can repair it, it’s just way harder because the technology is more complicated, smaller, integrated better. I repaired my washing machine myself 5 years ago with no prior knowledge buying a spare part on aliexpress, and it was Samsung, notorious for subpar repairability. On the other hand, I failed to repair my smartwatch even though I had spare parts, again was incredibly easy to find, but it’s was so complicated and small so without expensive equipment I couldn’t do it, but that’s absolutely not their fault.
Meanwhile, 50 or so years old TV my dad refused to throw out for nostalgic reasons had to be repaired every year like clockwork, it took him a full day, and by the end of it’s life spare vacuum tubes were more expensive than a new tv.
Anyway, planned obsolescence was always a thing, the legends are saying the first commercial lightbulb was sold with this concept in mind. But it’s not as ubiquitous as we fear it isYou can still buy those expensive appliances. The brands exist. Just be prepared to pay the prices your grandparents paid.
Some of the brands have turned to shit tho.
Samsung used to make reliable washers about two decades ago. Bosch appliances used to have a better reputation. Etc.
Miele is the only one still making supposedly reliable stuff but I read they’re relaxing their once great parts availability policy. No they’re not getting cheaper, just enshittifying.
There is also a survivorship bias at play here. Old appliances that are still in use are exactly the appliances where all the constituent parts were top quality, that have had the right maintenance, that have, against all odds, survived. Plenty of those old appliances didn’t survive.
Yes capitalism has done what it does to increase profitability and desirability, but there are still got quality appliances that last. They just usually don’t have the most features, or a luxury look. When I got a new fridge-freezer last year, the guy who installed it told me that he rarely saw that model returned or repaired, and when it was repaired, it was pretty cheap. He also said he’d never buy a smart fridge, so I felt vindicated in buying the simplest device on the market.
It’s not because of efficiency that things last less time now.
well, yeah, a lot of over-engineering makes things fickle and it increases the number of potential failure points. simpler technology is simply more durable. My grandma has equipment they used for farming when she was a kid (that was 70 years ago). Stuff like buckets, pushcarts, manual hoes (those you use for farming, think minecraft hoes). They still work flawlessly.
Also there’s literally a proverb that says: “You don’t need an engineer to build a bridge that stands. You need an engineer to build a bridge that just barely stands.”
In other words, modern mathematics has taught people how to build houses that are just stable enough that they will last for a lifetime, then they collapse. Meanwhile the house that my uncle lives in was built around 500 years ago and still stands. It’s one of these old houses with extra thick walls (think 1m thick cutstone walls), it has a cellar and multiple stories. People back then did not cheap out on construction materials. Also the egyptian pyramids still stand because they are in no sense of the word “efficient”.
Eh. It made more sense hundreds of years ago for people to build houses that lasted for centuries. That kind of construction makes sense in periods of slow technological and social change.
But think of how differently people live now vs just a hundred years ago. Imagine buying a house without running water, electric wiring, or insulation. Sure, old homes can be renovated to have these. But that requires tearing the thing down to the bare stone or wood walls and starting from scratch. You have to gut the entire building. The only thing that remains is the shell, a shell which represents only 20% of the cost of the building, if that. Most of the cost of a building is not in the structure itself, yet that’s the only part that gets saved in a complete gutting and renovation.
If you build a house today that lasts centuries, the only way that house will still be occupied 300 years from now is if it’s been gutted down to the studs multiple times over the generations. And at that point, why build an ultra-durable house in the first place? Why not build something lighter that requires fewer resources up front, and can simply be torn down and recycled once it’s become obsolete?
yeah you’re right, one of the reason why a lot of houses in the US today are built rather thin and lightweight (think wooden structures, cardboard-thin walls) is because it is not clear whether the houses would even want to be inhabited in 100 years. not just because of technological change, but also because there could be population declines. not only is the total birthrate in the US today declining rapidly and far below replacement levels, which will lead to a declining population number in the future, but there is also a lot of migration within the US. think for example of all the towns in the rust belt, where economy used to be very active in the 1900 while now it’s essentially a dead area. the production and industry has shifted to the coastlines, and it might continue to shift, so building a house today that lasts for centuries, if people stop being interested in living there in 50 years, might not be wise.
i have a new dumb washer and dryer set bought this year, and my previous dumb set bought in 2011 still working, the ex took them 😂
I remember when I was in uni, living on-campus in a student dorm. Living conditions were not great, the rooms were small and they stuffed 3 or 4 guys in each room. We each had a bed, a chair, a tiny wardrobe, a shelf and half a desk. No fridge. Each fall, when we got back to school, there was an effervescent market for old used refrigerators. Everybody was buying and selling fridges for the first 1 or 2 weeks. One year we bought a 50 year old Zil fridge made in the USSR in the 60’s. We paid like €10 for it. It was heavy as hell and we had to carry it up the stairs to the 4th floor. The thing made a loud, continuous buzzing which helped drown out one of our colleague’s thunderous snoring. We loved it. I don’t remember what happened to it or who got to keep it after we disbanded, but I’m sure it still works.
I wish I could find another chest freezer like the one we had in texas. Thing was 400lbs of insulation with a compressor that withstood 25+ years of texas garage heat. Never failed once.
Well, they worked forever because you could get them fixed. They will break down but you could repair them yourself or get it repaired. Unsure about whitegoods, but small appliances these days are expected to end up in landfill; no exposed screws and everything is glued in.
no exposed screws and everything is glued in.
Ironically, everything being glued in is also the reason why they last much longer before you have to repair them for the first time. Screws are potential failure points where stuff can get loose. When stuff is glued together with modern glues, it’s basically shut like welded. It doesn’t get loose and lasts much longer.
Especially for stuff like smartphones that’s relevant. When stuff is screwed together, it’s typically not air-tight, and water can get in and ruin stuff. Glued together, it’s watertight basically completely.
You’ve clearly never tried to fix anything at least within the last decade.
When things are glued and there are no exposed screws, this means that you can’t replace parts and it means that in order to get inside to see what broke, you need to break it open very carefully. This means that in most cases, they break beyond repair and force you to buy a new one.
If you can break it open carefully, because everything is glued in (or in some cases just punched in during manufacture), you can’t replace anything because there’s nothing you can mount the new part to.
Phones are not appliances; they’re electronic devices and are much more complicated BUT should be repairable, as they used to be back in the 90s.
And have you seen the inside of a device that’s glued in? It is definitely NOT water tight. The glue is hard and cracks, and the purpose of the glue is not for IP, but to just keep the part in place and save 2c on each screw.
But I digress… Check out IFixit. Hopefully after going through some points on what the benefits are for right to repair, you’ll change your stance on this.
Just got rid of my fancy younger washer after spending $240 on repairs for the second time only to have it fail again.
Went and pulled my ancient Whirlpool direct drive out of storage, spent $15 on the replacement clutch and coupler it needed and threw them in there.
Thing turns 30 years old this year and it’s going like a champ.
Age of an appliance is not an indicator of its quality. Quality is an indicator of quality, back then, there was as mush trash quality products as today, only difference is, they did not live long enough to be remembered.
Also, electrical appliances were way, WAY more expensive than today.
We also aren’t paying the same prices. The fridge from the 60s in your grandmas basement? She probably had a 10 year payment plan for it.
I got tired of my he front loading washer leaking and fucking up, I went through 3 of them. Got them all serviced and they just never worked great to begin with. Said fuck it and got a speed queen top loader with knobs and one button. Fuckin love it. Bonus points too, I put a magnet on the side of it from my parents old laundry business with our name and old phone number. My dad only had speed queens in the business. Now I know why. Shit just works.
I wish companies understood that no, I don’t need my washing machine to be connected to WiFi
They didn’t add that feature for you.
They added it so they can “keep track” and “improve the customer experience”.
Which basically boils down to tracking your usage and selling it to the highest bidder.
