COLUMN. The Canadian prime minister has called for an alliance of middle powers to stand up to the world's great powers. This is a compelling idea, and one that Europe has been pursuing for 60 years, writes Le Monde columnist Pascal Riché.

cross-posted from: https://mander.xyz/post/46886810

The American president has invited Canada to become his country’s “51st state,” an idea that has infuriated most of Canada’s 40 million citizens.

…

Hence this suggestion: Why not expand the EU to include Canada? Is that so far-fetched an idea? In any case, Canadians have actually considered the question themselves. In February 2025, a survey conducted by Abacus Data on a sample of 1,500 people found that 44% of those polled supported the idea, compared to 34% who opposed it. Better the 28th EU country than the 51st US state!

One might object: Canada is not European, as required for EU membership by Article 49 of the EU Treaty. But what does “European” actually mean? The word cannot be understood in a strictly geographic sense, or Cyprus, closer to Asia, would not be part of the EU. So the term must be understood in a cultural sense.

…

As [Canadian Prime Minister Mark] Carney said in Paris, in March: Thanks to its French and British roots, Canada is “the most European of non-European countries.” He speaks from experience, having served as governor of the Bank of England (a post that is assigned based on merit, not nationality). Culturally and ideologically, Canada is close to European democracies: It shares the same belief in the welfare state, the same commitment to multilateralism and the same rejection of the death penalty or uncontrolled firearms.

Moreover, Canada is a Commonwealth monarchy that shares a king with the United Kingdom.

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Even short of a formal application, it would be wiser for Ottawa to strengthen its ties with European democracies rather than with the Chinese regime. The temptation is there: Just before heading to Davos, Carney signed an agreement with Beijing to lower tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.

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  • shawn1122@sh.itjust.works
    1·
    3 hours ago

    This will never happen since the Americans would see it as intentionally antagonizing. They’ve made it clear they see the Western hemisphere as theirs.

    In fact, in response they may take more deliberate action to capture control of Canada coercively. Being part of the EU would provide no meaningful protection against that. It would unnecessarily invite a more aggressive American posture towards Canada.

    If Carney did this it would be one of the biggest blunders in modern political history. Thankfully he’s a pretty smart guy. There’s very little value in joining the EU for Canada.

    There may be overlap in values but Europe is not what it used to be. Much of the worlds economic growth will be driven by the global south for the next thirty years so Carney is wise to prioritize carefully calculated deals with those countries.

    He will be travelling to India next, let’s see what he can secure as far as a trade deal goes. The EU and India are celebrating their recently signed free trade agreement, perhaps Carney will follow suit.

  • kent_eh@lemmy.caEnglish
    181·
    2 days ago

    The American president has invited Canada to become his country’s “51st state,”

    Not invited.

    He threatened to annex Canada.

    • hume_lemmy@lemmy.caEnglish
      6·
      2 days ago

      He threatened to annex Canada.

      -destroy Canada and take it for himself.

      I know that’s basically what you said, but “annex” is too fancy a word for the folks who don’t get why we’re so pissed off about it.

      • FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca
        3·
        2 days ago

        Trump has the brain of a rapist. He thinks any woman would be honoured to be fucked by him. He applies this same thinking to other countries. He thinks any country would be honoured to be pillaged by the Untied States

  • wampus@lemmy.caEnglish
    102·
    2 days ago

    Canadian politicians make all these BULLSHIT overtures about opening up trade and building up ties to the EU.

    But it’s been a year, and we’re still stuck with just Apple and Google for phone options, with nothing like the fairphone available.

    Someone should really smack Carney upside the head on this one.

  • WonderRin@sh.itjust.works
    17·
    2 days ago

    Personally, as a European, I would be pro this happening if Canada wants to join and the EU is willing to let them join.

    I get that geographically it wouldn’t make much sense, but culture is also important. Geographically, Belarus for example should join the EU instead of Canada, but I think most of us can agree that Belarus should not.

  • Toto@lemmy.world
    661·
    3 days ago

    They aren’t comparable. One is the prospect of a forced marriage, the other is being asked to join a semi functional study group.

  • agingelderly@lemmy.world
    31·
    3 days ago

    I’m already jealous of Canadians, to give them passport free travel and the option to move anywhere in Europe… fuuuuck me

    • Alloi@lemmy.world
      9·
      3 days ago

      id go live with my brother in germany for a while, id love to see the black forest and the old castles. or go look for some amber chunks in the water of the baltic sea.

    • TBi@lemmy.world
      6·
      2 days ago

      All European countries are still independent sovereign countries. You can leave the EU whenever you want.

      • non_burglar@lemmy.world
        5·
        2 days ago

        This makes me sad for our future.

        Every single conversation about nationalism devolves into “strongest monkey with biggest stick”.

        • Knightfox@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 days ago

          In the case of Canada I think that is inherently the problem. US Republican’s have been complaining specifically about Canada since about 2016 and how they aren’t meeting their NATO requirements, have no plans to ever meet them, and how Canada is basically free loading. I remember an article from ~2019 where a Canadian economist was quoted saying that if Canadians are going to be taxed more politicians are not going to spend that money on defense spending over programs which improve quality of life because defense isn’t a concern for Canadians due to being next door to the US.

          All this talk about Canada freeloading has some merit, but from a US perspective it completely ignores the huge economic benefits the US/Canada relationship has had for the US. At its heart a significant portion of the US has strong opinions and beliefs about the importance of military preparedness and a fascination with naive blind fairness. In their minds the US and Canada have a good relationship, but Canada isn’t doing their fair share and that makes them angry. For them they see Canada as a mooch and a bad friend.

          Canada not investing in it’s military defense both caused US conservative politicians to be upset and also puts Canada in the uncomfortable position they are in now. So yeah, Canada has a “strongest monkey with the biggest stick” problem in that they don’t have much of a stick.

  • merc@sh.itjust.works
    15·
    3 days ago

    I don’t think Canada joining the EU is really realistic. It’s not about geography, it’s mostly regulation.

    For example, all EU countries meet the “European standard EN 50075:1990”, which is about electrical plugs. Every device in Europe is compatible with that plug, and every plug meets that standard. Even Switzerland which isn’t part of the EU meets the 2-prong standard. Canada uses the NEMA 1-15 and NEMA 5-15 standards instead. And it isn’t just the plugs. North America uses 120 V at 60Hz, Europe uses 230 V at 50 Hz. I really can’t see a way for Canada to switch to the EU standard without a massive cost and/or a very long implementation period. And what does it gain? I much prefer europlugs and 230V appliances. My electric kettle boiled a whole lot faster in the EU, and things were retained in the socket much better than the dumb blade connectors Canada uses. But, I wouldn’t want to have to pay an extra $2000 in taxes (x 40 million or whatever) just to switch to this slightly better standard.

    That’s just the start of it. There are different standards for roads, vehicles, health and safety, basically every aspect of life. Canada could switch to some at great expense, like changing all road signs. But, AFAIK being truly part of the EU would mean switching to all EU standards, unless special exemptions were made.

    IMO, what would make more sense is just closer integration: free movement of people, free movement of goods, maybe closer collaboration on research, health and safety, etc.

    • Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.world
      5·
      3 days ago

      There are several standards for plugs. Types C, E, F, and G. Only the slim ungrounded plugs will fit in type C, E, and F sockets. Grounded type F plugs will be ungrounded in C or E sockets, and grounded type E plugs don’t fit in anything but a type E sockets. If the type C or E are the full round plug, neither will fit in a type F socket even if it is ungrounded (I know this because I had to trim excess plastic from a type C plug to use it in a type F socket. Type G is used by Ireland Malta and Cyprus and is entirely incomparable with the other types. Type G also makes an excellent caltrop and will fuck up your foot in a profound way if you step on it. Then the Italians swiss and Danes all have their own style of plug. Most of the countries have a mixture of type C and whatever earthed version that country prefers.

      The above picture is a typical situation in Norway. The left most type C plug only fits in the type F socket because I butchered it. And the earthed type F plug is only earthed in a type F socket. Many older buildings only have type C sockets in most rooms (the kitchen and bathroom are always upgraded to type F and there’s usually a cluster of type F sockets in the living room on the same wall as the TV).

      As for the voltage requirements that’s only a thing because the entirety of Europe is connected in one large grid. Obviously Canada wouldn’t be.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        3 days ago

        As for the voltage requirements that’s only a thing because the entirety of Europe is connected in one large grid. Obviously Canada wouldn’t be.

        If you changed the plugs without changing the voltage / frequency, then every device sold would have to be compatible with both standards. For certain devices that would be difficult or costly.

        • Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.world
          7·
          3 days ago

          You get adapters for that. Also Japan uses both systems in the same country. Everything from Osaka to the west is 60Hz and everything from Tokyo to the east is 50hz. They cope (they both use 100V).

    • Soup@lemmy.world
      73·
      3 days ago

      Whole countries have switched whoch side they drive on over a single night, and they needed to make sure signs and shit were adjusted. Yes, there would need to be a change, but you can either make excuses or you can make progress.

      Right now, you’re making excuses.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        2 days ago

        Why would it be progress to switch to Europe’s standard? What’s the cut-off amount that would make switching not worth it? There has to be some number if you’re being objective about it.

        • Soup@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 days ago

          Number of what, dollars? Because that figure you mentioned is not something a company looking for real progress would put on its normal citizens, that’s what properly taxing the wealthy would easily cover. And you’re saying that me not having a specific number on hand is a gotcha? Really?

          As for the progress, it’s not just $2,000 of taxes to get some plugs. There are a LOT of good regulations the EU has that have benefitted us without even having been in the organization and if we can further support that, both by using that standard AND removing ourselves from the market as users of the old standard, that’s a great thing.

          Stop making excuses.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
        44·
        3 days ago

        As a dual Greek-Canadian citizen: fuck the Euro. It’s a straightjacket that forces everyone to follow the economic priorities of Germany.

        • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
          12·
          3 days ago

          While Greece does have economic problems because of Europe it’s not the Euro that’s at fault and they predate the EU.

          • acargitz@lemmy.ca
            10·
            3 days ago

            Greece’s problems prior to the debt crisis were not the fault of the Euro.

            The “solutions” that were offered to Greece during the crisis were not conceived with Greece’s best interest in mind, but with preserving the Euro and placating German (and other “northern”) right wingers that saw the debt crisis as a moral crusade against “lazy Mediterraneans”. That’s what I mean by straitjacket. The Greek economy was forced into an aggressive internal devaluation with no upside. Greece is currently trailing behind post-soviet-bloc members. It’s been effectively shot for at least 10-20 years.

            This is to say: a currency union only works if you have other mechanisms for deeper union in terms of fiscality, transfers etc. And in an unequal system like the European one, this doesn’t work to the advantage of everyone. Canada should not let go of the CAD.

            EDIT: We are a raw resouces exporter. So take oil for example. If Canada joined the Euro, and oil prices crashed while German manufacturing stayed strong, the Euro would remain high. Canada would be stuck with a “strong” currency it can’t afford, leading to the exact same “straitjacket” effect that Greece suffered from.

            • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
              1·
              3 days ago

              It’s a good way of putting it but we’re in that situation now with our own currency.

              It’s just less forward facing that something costs twice as much because of the American dollar vs the same cost but we have half as much.

              Simplified but I hope you can see the parallel.

              • acargitz@lemmy.ca
                5·
                3 days ago

                Yes but we have full control of our currency and central bank and therefore we have more policy levers to fine tune our response. “Forward facing” is aspirational, I just don’t see the benefit.

            • Sepia@mander.xyzOP
              35·
              3 days ago

              The “solutions” that were offered to Greece during the crisis were not conceived with Greece’s best interest in mind, but with preserving the Euro and placating German (and other “northern”) right wingers that saw the debt crisis as a moral crusade against “lazy Mediterraneans”.

              The euro is a great advantage for all countries that take part, including Greece. It was Greece’s membership in Eurozone that made the support easier for all sides.

              There have been problems back then and many of them may still persist, but they have nothing to do with the currency. Nor has it to do with the “right wingers” that saw “a moral crusade against lazy Mediterraneans” that forced Greece “into an aggressive internal devaluation.” This is meaningless propaganda rant.

              • acargitz@lemmy.ca
                5·
                3 days ago

                In short: a country that controls its currency, faced with a situation like Greece’s in 2012 can ease the hurt by devaluing its currency. That option was not available to Greece because of the Euro. Instead the internal devaluation was forced through, to immense social cost.

                That said, I take a very great deal of exception to the “propaganda” accusation. It implies I’m a bad faith actor here, which in turns means anything I say is suspect. If that’s what you think, I have no reason to continue this discussion. Clarify your position.

                • Sepia@mander.xyzOP
                  21·
                  2 days ago

                  What should I clarify? What is it that you don’t understand?

                  You speak of “German and other northern right wingers” of not having “Greece’s best interest in mind” as they were on a “moral crusade” against “lazy Mediterraneans.” And these are not even all insults and accusations you made literally out of nothing. You don’'t cite a source, not a single number, or anything that would show that you even try to foster your opinion. It’s just an empty rant, and it’s not your first one if I may say so. You are firing a series of insults.

                  I agree just in one point: There is no reason to continue this discussion.

  • TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca
    32·
    2 days ago

    The problem is the EU is still designed as an institution that’s a vassal to US interests and that they are being eroded from the bottom up by far right parties financed by that same old suspects. The EU would need to start being able to throw countries like Hungary out, they would need to begin creating their own serious alternative to NATO, and they would need to put leadership over the bureaucracy from national disputes and interests to be the sort of Union that could accept Canada within it.

    The problem is also that every single election year for a EU member is another chance for the foreign financed far right to have more control over their nation and the EU as an extension. There are EU countries that are pretty divided up at the moment and even with proportional representation between a right that wants easy money and has made sure to tank any government that does not have them as a majority (or at least a majority block with the far right) and a far right that is an expert at scamming and lying to potential voters within their pedoligarch fueled social network bubbles, the outlook is not good.