- cross-posted to:
- boycottus@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- boycottus@lemmy.ca
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59469059
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I didn’t even know there was a Patreon app. I signed up through the website. On a computer. Old school.
Technofeudalism.
Yes! Exploit the morons as much as they’re willing to be exploited!
None of them have the brains/balls to fight back.
This is the second phase of enshittification. They are hurting yhe businesses with this, not the consumer.
We will need an alternative to Patreon that even people on Patreon can go to
No, you need an alternative to apps in the Apple app store, which already exist. Don’t pay for anything through an app on an Apple device, they will rob the creator. Pay through the Patreon web site.
Liberapay, Kofi
Direct payments with Monero seems like the best option.
Everything else takes a cut, which they do not deserve.
Subscribe star and pixiv fanbox
Heavily blocked by filters. I’m pretty sure pixiv cut the US loose and started blocking US users.
I hope Patreon will just switch off the ability to pay through the iOS app, along with a nice fuck you-message to Apple that pops up when you first open the app
That would be nice, but when Apple says “jump,” all the other businesses ask “how high?”
The world is full of morons with more money than sense.
Last time this came up Patreon simply allowed the creators to charge the commission directly on top of the price for non apple users, or eat the 30% loss. So everyone not using iOS would pay, say, $5/month, iOS users would pay $5+30%. Hope they retain that option.
That’s actually a good solution
Is it? Previously this was considered tips
Now it’s 30% for what? Running a payment gateway and hiding an unsubscribe button deep in the App Store UI.
Competitively payment gateways charge 1-3%, but when you lock down a platform you can charge 10x that.
Yeah, I remember cause my Patreon account asked me what I wanted to do about apple trying to steal my money
p.s. I never push Patreon so have no subs lol
It’s logical but it probably scares away some customers. That’s why the “just eat it” option exists. iOS gives you access to an enormous market and payments are slick and easy. Creators may want $5 but if they can get 30% less from 500% more people, it’s still a good business for them. There’s no strict reason why they must obsess over taking 100% of the sticker price. There are a million examples of businesses who are willing to accept a discount for high volume business.
Ya a few apps already do this. YouTube premium does for sure and I have heard a few others doing so.
Your math is wrong. If you want the creator to still get $5 with apple stealing 30% you would need to pay ~43% extra.
$5/0.7 = $7.14
1/0.7 = 1.42857
I don’t remember the math, there was a button to charge apple users more so we got what we were supposed to
It reminds me of gas stations that only accept ATM cards and not credit cards, because they don’t want to lose the 3% that credit card companies take per transaction. They’re trying not to lose that 3%, but it will inconvenience some customers and lose them some business. That could easily be worse than 3%.
So yes Patreon could say “go find a laptop and enter your credit card number in our web page” but there are people who won’t do all that because they expect to be able to pay with one tap. And businesses are on the AppStore because that great payment experience makes it super easy for them to convert customers.
It’s just not as straightforward as saying “fuck you Apple, I’ll take my business elsewhere.”
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30? Is it simply that they’re hosting an app on their store, so therefore they’re entitled to a cut?
So if I write a novel, and get it published, Microsoft can say "We deserve 30% because you used our product to produce your product?
I’m so fucking tired of corporations. It’s well past guillotine-o-clock.
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30?
Apple users are some of the dumbest people on the planet. Most of them will gleefully support paying more to make the company richer.
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30?
Because Valve can and Tim wants his yachts. No one is gonna stop em either. The App Store and Steam are the same thing: Store fronts that sell other peoples goods. You may say that Steam is just an app—don’t tell me, tell your representatives
Which device only allows you to run software downloaded from Steam?
You may say that Steam is just an app—don’t tell me, tell your representatives
Tell your representatives, not me. According to our representatives, what Apple has is not a monopoly. You don’t have to convince me, you have to convince them. If you truly care about this issue, vote accordingly.
I don’t understand why you think it’s ok to knowingly present a false equivalency then. You clearly know it’s not true, so why repeat the lie?
Because thats how they’re getting away with it? Who cares if it’s true or not, no one who can do anything about it cares. Tell your reps to start caring about monopolies.
Why are you booing them, they’re right.
Steam at least adda value for devs. What the fuck does apple do for Patreon creators?
It’s a little different though. Valve is providing the actual platform, and running it. Apple doesn’t own Patreon, they simply host a client.
It sure is different, but the people in charge dont know or care to know
They’re bringing the apple tax to the table
It’s a holdover from retail where had to physically hold your product and had limited space.
Now, the shareholders demand even more money and Apple has complete control on the OS and they are signaling that you can’t do shit and they will take whatever they want.
They can fight anyone in courts, and as long as the laws have no teeth, they will get away with it.
If I was on Patreon I’d tell them to pull the app. Fuck em they have a website.
Right? You’d think Patreon would throw their weight against Apple, as this is clearly not in their best interest. Threaten to pull the app, and if Apple follows through, they get nothing. Alternatively, move payments entirely outside of the app and force Apple to either do something which is guaranteed to be extremely unpopular, or call their bluff. But they won’t do these things or even try to negotiate Apple’s cut.
Apple may appear to swing the biggest dick here, but I am so disgusted by these weak companies just immediately bending over without a fight.
As always, it’s the creators who will be faced with hardship, but neither entity seems to give a shit.
Is It better for patreon to lose 30% of income from Apple pay, or to have Apple users not being able to pay unless they open the webpage and pay from there? Is it better for them to remove the app altogether and have users on Apple forced to use it through the website?
I’d imagine they’d lose quite a bit of subscriptions if they did that. Is that more or less than 30% is something I don’t know.
Is it better for them to remove the app altogether and have users on Apple forced to use it through the website?
Yes. Clearly yes, for everyone. This sort of shit only continues because people don’t do that.
I would imagine this would lead to having less users. Or people that use it less. It would also make the experience for users worse. As such it would lead to less subscriptions. It is not clear to me that this would be better. I’m not sure on whether it would be worse, but I doubt it’d be better for everyone.
They could go on the offensive with messaging and get subscribers to apply pressure on Apple to keep things the same… Would it work? Probably not, but it might get some of the Apple users onside.
And there goes your engagement.
Apples got them, and Apple knows it.
Conversely, Apple is nothing but an overpriced burner phone without the apps. No one is buying it for safari and iTunes.
You can already pay on the website. If you pay through Apple Pay and therefore pay the extra 30%, that’s kinda on you at this point.
Cunt move by Apple, but the in-app purchase payment processing going through apple only rule has been there for a long ass time, Patreon got pretty lucky that they were given so much leeway for so long.
I fucking hate mega corps. It’s never fucking enough… Ever… Apple has more money than some countries yet these assholes want ever more…
Tax all these assholes into oblivion!
Hey, the poor billionaire CEOs are under a bunch of pressure to ensure the company sticks to its infinite growth schedule.
Tim Cook needs more money to forge golden offerings for his good pal Donald trump.
Terribly need degoogled android to become popular and/or a normal Linux distribution phone to become popular so that normal Linux market share couldn’t be ignored
New Jolla Phone will start shipping in 2026 H1
Is this one fully open source? Or is it still “well open source when we can”?
I don’t know. Are there some parts that have been closed when they should have been open?
I had no idea Apple was so desperate for money
That’s what chasing infinite growth does to a corporation. Things are going to get way worse before the collapse.
3.78 Trillion dollar market cap. You don’t get to that valuation by being generous to your customers. Apple is as capitalist as any of them. They’re just wrapped in shiny marketing. Now only if their fans understood that.
So, all business is becoming a protection racket?
Gotta recoup all those fascist donations
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It’s just that there are only a few companies that sell products that apple also sells
Right, the alternatives are sooooooooooo much better.
Googles track record is on point , android for the win. (/s)
Getting rid of Apple entirely would be like removing Coke from the beverage marketplace. It just allows the competition to worsen and consumer choice to be less.
Apple > Google as a company in every moral category
It is because there are less roadblocks to completely changing out the OS to be completely degoogled than it is to do the same for an iPhone or iPad. OS is the part that is the most damaging than the hardware itself, and alternate deAppled OS for iPhones and Ipad are pretty much nonexistent.
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I didn’t think it would be such a stretch to say Coke > Pepsi but whatever bro. Apple is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less intrusive and integrated into the American government than Google.
Google may as well be state sanctioned with how much they’re integrated with American military and as American spyware. So if those are the only choices for most people then yeah, I’d absolutely defend Apple over Google.
Don’t worry, I’ll catch the next bandwagon.
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I like Grapheneos.
Fuck patron. Fuck you Tim Apple. Fuck you both
What’s wrong with Patreon? They advertise a 10% fee. It may be a little more complicated than that but 10% seems pretty reasonable considering the services they offer.
Patreon stopped being benevolent years ago when they changed their pricing model to exploit small donors more.
Send money directly using Monero. Avoid as much ‘overhead’ as possible.
I’d love to but it’s a chicken and egg thing. Regular people don’t understand bitcoin let alone monero. On top of that, you still have fees for converting from a currency to monero and again from monero to a currency, so there’s still a middle man :/
How is 10% reasonable. They just transfer money from A to B while showing people some static html text about the options. They basically do nothing.
I wouldn’t say these services are nothing. Are they worth 10%? Eh.
A 90/10 split for content creators who otherwise wouldn’t know how to build and operate their own platform doesn’t sound like a terrible deal. It’s not amazing but if there were better options, Patreon may not be so popular.
Edit: I want to clarify. Patreon is a for profit company who has apparently tried raising prices already and back tracked. Eventually, Patreon will try and squeeze out more profit from the creators and the user base will be big enough that Patreon will have the leverage to do so; we’ve all seen it before. I’m not saying Patreon is a good company, I’m not saying they won’t be dicks in the future, I’m not saying the system as it is, is good. I’m only saying 10% isn’t a bad deal when so many other options are worse (ex. Apple taking 30%)
It’s always getting fleeced with you guys and being fine with slightly less fleecing, when that is just a way to entice and reach a point where they can monopolize the market and fleece like the big dogs.
And then a new company with slightly less fleecing appears, with board members from previous company.
Rinse and repeat.
I understand your view and sympathize deeply but there is a lot wrong in the world today and if I have to divert energy somewhere to try and change something, Patreon’s 10/90 split is at the bottom of the list for me at the moment. Regular working class people aren’t getting that good of a deal at the jobs they work at. I’m not even talking 90/10, just getting their .01% of the profits in a 1000 person org for their contribution would probably be life changing.
You are right but our frames of reference are different.
