Mastodon is made of lots of instances, nobody wants to be the instance with ICE on it. If they make their own instance or the government makes their own, they can be defederated by whatever instances wish to.
That’s the difference, you can kick Ice out of your federated servers. You can’t do that with bsky.
This is such a virtue signalling to me… “Oh no, instance XYZ has account PQR on it, for shame!” - well, you’re still using the app, the platform, you’re still seeing the content. Unless you block them, which you can also do on TT/BSky.
This comment is such virtue signalling to me “oh no, I don’t understand how federation works and so I’ll invent a strawman argument so I can pretend to be clever, for shame!” - well, you’re still not understanding the app, the platform, you’re still inventing the strawman. Unless you bother to research even slightly them, which you can also do on the internet.
Unless you bother to research even slightly them, which you can also do on the internet.
Right, so you just don’t want Fediverse to ever replace things like Reddit or Twitter? Remain within a margin of error in their user count? Got it. My bad for assuming we, the early adopters, were trying to get this thing off the ground and become an actual threat to the capitalist pigs.
Ye, ye, nothing says “freedom of speech” as much as collective punishment!
Especially now, with Fediverse being barely understood by its own users and those outside the bubble having no clue what any of that means. People signing up to random servers just to be able to get off of Reddit getting slapped with an instance ban will surely boost Fediverse numbers!
Paradox of tolerance doesn’t include collective punishment, mate. Especially considering the .world and .ml instances are the largest ones, to the point where they’re listed on the Wiki article for Lemmy.
Just imagine - you seeing that Reddit is going to shit, wanting to change to something better, looking up Lemmy, seeing that one of these two instances being the largest, joining, and immediately being called a Nazi, or some such bullshit by an elitist prick.
You know we’re talking about ICE, right? the literal evil paramilitary squad of a crumbling empire. The ones who kidnap children, the ones who break into homes and disappear people.
I could understand your being pissed off if it was some fucker getting cancelled for something unimportant.
But people died, people died. This ain’t the same thing.
And no, it literally does. You don’t want to turn into a nazi bar, you don’t let Nazis in. If the owners let Nazis in, you don’t go to the bar and you tell every other fucker to do the same.
No, we’re talking about blocking an instance because it “accepted” an ICE account.
the literal evil paramilitary squad of a crumbling empire. The ones who kidnap children, the ones who break into homes and disappear people.
I know full well who they are. But they’re still - like it or not - a government organisation. There should be tools to help moderation in such situations. Like, if you have your average right-wing nutjob lying non-stop, flag the account, make it only publish posts after a review, or something.
I could understand your being pissed off if it was some fucker getting cancelled for something unimportant.
But people died, people died. This ain’t the same thing.
OK, so what do you propose? Say, Johnny Regular signs up in .blahaj.zone. Then goes insane and starts a mass shooting, killing a hundred people.
Do we blow up the instance, blacklist everybody on it because “people died” and “nobody wants to be the instance with ICE Johnny Regular on it”?
And no, it literally does. You don’t want to turn into a nazi bar, you don’t let Nazis in. If the owners let Nazis in, you don’t go to the bar and you tell every other fucker to do the same.
So add a mechanism to review accounts before they’re created, especially for gov users, instead of nuking an instance because one got let in.
In theory yes. In practice? Say ice gets on the big main instance (like 90% of the users does anyway, would be my guess). The admins on this big main instance will allow the ice account to exist. Now what? Everyone defed with the big main instance? It will blow up the entire fediverse or nothing will happen and the last 10% will sit in their small fedi silos being tankies and talk about how America is a pedo nazi state (sorry about that last rant but jesus christ everything turns political on Lemmy from the first comment on nearly every post).
Sorry if my comment came off like that. No, what I meant is that my experience with the comment sections on Lemmy generally is battle of who is a tankie, nazi, corrupt, pedos. Probably overgeneralization. And that the fediverse is so fragile that defeding with the biggest instances will end in Lemmy will die. I hope that I’m wrong.
Mastodon can have instancewide ban, I am pretty sure any instance which allowed ICE would get the whole instance banned, and with it all the users leaving to any other one
ICE could easily make an account on Mastodon, would they get pissed if that happened too?
They could, however…
Mastodon is made of lots of instances, nobody wants to be the instance with ICE on it. If they make their own instance or the government makes their own, they can be defederated by whatever instances wish to.
That’s the difference, you can kick Ice out of your federated servers. You can’t do that with bsky.
Bluesky is made of lots of instances as well. More people should move off bsky.social.
Check myatproto.social, bsky.global and https://atprotify.me/
Individuals could still block them, no?
yes
i mean ICE can make their own instance,but most fediverse instances will most likely defederate.
This is such a virtue signalling to me… “Oh no, instance XYZ has account PQR on it, for shame!” - well, you’re still using the app, the platform, you’re still seeing the content. Unless you block them, which you can also do on TT/BSky.
It’s just weird to me.
This comment is such virtue signalling to me “oh no, I don’t understand how federation works and so I’ll invent a strawman argument so I can pretend to be clever, for shame!” - well, you’re still not understanding the app, the platform, you’re still inventing the strawman. Unless you bother to research even slightly them, which you can also do on the internet.
It’s just weird to me.
Right, so you just don’t want Fediverse to ever replace things like Reddit or Twitter? Remain within a margin of error in their user count? Got it. My bad for assuming we, the early adopters, were trying to get this thing off the ground and become an actual threat to the capitalist pigs.
Big difference here, admins can ban them, for everyone
Ye, ye, nothing says “freedom of speech” as much as collective punishment!
Especially now, with Fediverse being barely understood by its own users and those outside the bubble having no clue what any of that means. People signing up to random servers just to be able to get off of Reddit getting slapped with an instance ban will surely boost Fediverse numbers!
Search for this term “paradox of tolerance”, you’ll thank me
Paradox of tolerance doesn’t include collective punishment, mate. Especially considering the
.worldand.mlinstances are the largest ones, to the point where they’re listed on the Wiki article for Lemmy.Just imagine - you seeing that Reddit is going to shit, wanting to change to something better, looking up Lemmy, seeing that one of these two instances being the largest, joining, and immediately being called a Nazi, or some such bullshit by an elitist prick.
You know we’re talking about ICE, right? the literal evil paramilitary squad of a crumbling empire. The ones who kidnap children, the ones who break into homes and disappear people.
I could understand your being pissed off if it was some fucker getting cancelled for something unimportant.
But people died, people died. This ain’t the same thing.
And no, it literally does. You don’t want to turn into a nazi bar, you don’t let Nazis in. If the owners let Nazis in, you don’t go to the bar and you tell every other fucker to do the same.
No, we’re talking about blocking an instance because it “accepted” an ICE account.
I know full well who they are. But they’re still - like it or not - a government organisation. There should be tools to help moderation in such situations. Like, if you have your average right-wing nutjob lying non-stop, flag the account, make it only publish posts after a review, or something.
OK, so what do you propose? Say, Johnny Regular signs up in
.blahaj.zone. Then goes insane and starts a mass shooting, killing a hundred people.Do we blow up the instance, blacklist everybody on it because “people died” and “nobody wants to be the instance with
ICEJohnny Regular on it”?So add a mechanism to review accounts before they’re created, especially for gov users, instead of nuking an instance because one got let in.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
In theory yes. In practice? Say ice gets on the big main instance (like 90% of the users does anyway, would be my guess). The admins on this big main instance will allow the ice account to exist. Now what? Everyone defed with the big main instance? It will blow up the entire fediverse or nothing will happen and the last 10% will sit in their small fedi silos being tankies and talk about how America is a pedo nazi state (sorry about that last rant but jesus christ everything turns political on Lemmy from the first comment on nearly every post).
So, not aligning with ICE = tankie? Alrighty!
Sorry if my comment came off like that. No, what I meant is that my experience with the comment sections on Lemmy generally is battle of who is a tankie, nazi, corrupt, pedos. Probably overgeneralization. And that the fediverse is so fragile that defeding with the biggest instances will end in Lemmy will die. I hope that I’m wrong.
Mastodon can have instancewide ban, I am pretty sure any instance which allowed ICE would get the whole instance banned, and with it all the users leaving to any other one