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well yeah, that’s why donations don’t work either, somehow. consider:
if you’re the person always donating to charity, and nobody else does, you’re essentially providing the community service that should be provided by the community taxes. instead, you pay it all yourself. that’s why taxes have to be enforced by the community: the first one to donate suffers a disadvantage, but if a general rule says everybody must pay taxes/donate at the same time, nobody loses.
But what if I’m Self-Made™? I earned that money and definitely didn’t use anything that taxes paid for, and if I did I’d be happy to pay for it but only it and also I’m sure that wouldn’t cause a paperwork nightmare as everyone tries to be way to specific about what they’re paying for and what they aren’t.
/S
This comment section is all people missing the point.
The point of the post is that a particular job will generally stabilize at a particular pay. If it’s a tipped position, then the employer will pay less, so that the overall income is roughly at that stable income for that position, including the overall average tip.
So people who tip less than the average are free riding off of the people who tip more than average, where that worker will make an average tip overall, which comes more from the generous tippers than the stingy tippers. Thus, it effectively transfers money from generous tippers to stingy tippers, on net, in the long run.
The merits of this system, whether servers deserve to be paid more, whether we should push for reforms so that this isn’t the system, is besides the point. The post is making an observation of how things actually are, not advocating for how things should be.
No worker should depend on tips. Problem solved
And yet, people do.
Should we just ignore the dynamics of that system, and pretend it doesn’t exist? Or can we make observations about that system, and analyze its effects?
We should change it
change is meaningless without prior analysis.
what the fuck does this even mean
Yeah, well, it is Not that difficult.
No your tips become profit for the greedy assholes who own the restaurant, you aren’t compensating for non tippers, you are compensating for greedy cunts not paying people a living wage and the fact that most Americans can’t understand this and are agreeing with the post calling people who don’t tip as rude is why tipping is never gonna leave this fucked up country
Not tipping is rude. You are not facilitating change by not tipping, because the burden of your choice is felt almost entirely by the worker you stiffed. The employer is not motivated to pay their employee more from reduced tips because they aren’t really worse off for it. Sure, maybe their employee eventually quits if they aren’t making enough, but tip industries typically have high turnover anyway, so the worker is already considered replaceable. The worker suffers from missing an expected part of their income, but they also lack the ability to make things better for themselves. So it’s just piling onto their bad situation.
If you want to get rid of tip culture, stop patronizing places that rely on tips to give their employees a living wage. That’s how capitalism works, businesses make changes in their power when something affects their bottom line. So you have to protest in a way that actually hurts the person with the power to change something, not someone caught in the crossfire. And of course, try to support reform that guarantees a living wage regardless of tips.
In Europe tipping is optional and the expectations are lower because the base wage is the full minimum, or higher.
In North America tipping has become a necessity because there is a lower minimum wage for waitstaff, which is a stupid arrangement that allows management/ownership to keep wages low and also now claim a portion of tips, for some reason.
Anyone who thinks that is a good system and that the problem is “cheapskates”, not the deeply flawed system for paying waitstaff, is not thinking things through
I don’t disagree with anything you said. But being a cheapskate is rude and will not solve the problem.
It works both ways. If noone tips then noone will work at restaurants where their wage consists solely of tipping. That is also how capitalism works.
If everyone quit tipping at once, yes, that would mean immediate, dramatic change. But that is unrealistic. And some people not tipping in protest when it is expected while most continue the tradition is the worst outcome for the workers. It makes their material conditions worse but not to the point of achieving anything.
Tipping is one of the only reasons to carry cash
I like to pay by card and hand the waiter a bill or two so they aren’t giving half of their tip to management
I’d find it almost funny, how much capitalism as a system seems to favor those who are most capable and willing to detach morality from their actions for capital gain, if it weren’t so sad.
Insert Winston Churchill quote here.
We should end tipping culture. Wages should never be optional, and anyone working full time should be paid by their employer a living wage as described by FDR when the minimum wage was created.
Until we end tipping culture, tip your servers. You’re not some edgy social justice warrior by quoting Mr. Pink and acting like keeping your two dollars is somehow helping. You’re just an asshole.
The whole point of that scene was that even a room of psychotic killers was disgusted by the idea of not tipping.
It’s amazing how many people saw it and said, “You know, the crazy-eyed murderer makes a good point.”
Calling it culture sounds a bit weird to me it’s an exploitative loophole that’s illegal in cultured places.
That’s fair. We should call it regulation and labor laws. Minimum wage laws specifically enshrine tipping as a foundation of server wages, and closing that loophole is a necessary first step.
Until we end tipping culture, tip your servers.
If everyone continues to tip by default, then I believe this will delay or prevent an end to the culture. If servers don’t have an issue with tipping (because everyone does so), then there is less reason to support change.
If one person doesn’t tip:
You’re just an asshole.
If a large majority doesn’t tip:
Maybe there is a problem with tipping by default?
That’s not how anything works. If you want change, you need to vote for it. You’re not going to change the entire economic structure of the whole restaurant industry by being a selfish asshole. You’re just punishing the people who handle your food and making life harder for everyone.
It definitely does not work in an environment where lazy aggressive apatheists will support a system they don’t like by claiming it can’t be changed.
First day on Earth? Welcome. Mind the dog shit, some people don’t pick up after themselves.
Well in Australia we don’t have tipping.
You sure you don’t use some other word? You guys have one of the best accents out there but can be tough to understand.
Tipping is basically donating money to the waiting staff (in a broader sense, to the management of the restaurant).
I think there are more people in need of donations than the ones who move your food 10 steps.
I would 10000% pick my own food and cary it to the table, as I often do in many “”“lower class”“” restaurants (diners?)
That, or add a flat service charge, add it to the check and pay fucking taxes (this is directed to the management).
I don’t tip. But I don’t live in the US.
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Yes, at this point it’s rude people that don’t tip.
It’s like people moving next to an airport, then complaining about planes. If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a full service restaurant.
That being said, every single order at the counter POS terminal that asks for tips can fuck right off.
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The tipping system is fucked, but that doesn’t at all change the fact that it’s baked into the system. EVERYONE (in that moment) expects you to to tip; so if you don’t, you’re effectively stealing from the server.
If you don’t want to tip, your only options are to either not eat out at restaurants, or to find restaurants that have “Hospitality Included” service (a trend which I’m thankful to see growing – albeit slowly).
If you don’t want to tip, your only options are to either not eat out at restaurants
I would gladly take this option, but sometimes other people want to for some reason. I would rather just go for drinks at a pub.
What if everyone didn’t expect you to tip? You vehemently defending the tipping system is part of why EVERYONE expects you to tip.
That kind of aggressive apatheism is what makes the system continue.
Okay, then at the very least when you walk in you should declare your intention to not tip. Still shitty towards the server that gets stuck with you, but now it causes conflict amongst the staff and brings the issue to a head.
The tipping system sucks, but short of passing some laws mandating a livable wage WITHOUT tips, going out now and not tipping for a full service dining experience is absolutely a bad move.
Basically you’re advocating for customers to screw over the wait staff since, as you clearly point out, the owners aren’t on the hook for the tip income.
They are advocating for not supporting a broken system so it can be replaced with a better one.
How long do you think that wait staff will stay in the restaurants where their wage consists of tipping which doesn’t exist?
It’s like people moving next to an airport, then complaining about planes.
I believe this analogy works in the opposite way?
Moving next to an airport is like starting a job at a restaurant that doesn’t pay minimum (or living) wage.
In either case, you know ahead of time that it’ll be annoying to live/work in those situations because planes are loud and not all people tip to make up the poor wage level.
And then to solve these problems, instead of requiring that planes be quieter or that people always tip, perhaps re-zone the areas surrounding the airport so people can’t move there, and sign into law minimum wage that scales with cost of living so people don’t have to need tips.
Both can be true
I’m Canadian. Servers now make minimum wage. I have stopped tipping. It doesn’t make any sense that a server who is making above minimum wage has to rely on customers paying a gratuity. Where were my tips when I was a lifeguard? Or a tour guide? I didn’t get a bonus for doing a good job landscaping. I’m not angry at the servers. I’m upset at the ones who blame customers for the shady business that they help keep open.
Not gonna stop doing it though. In fact, my brain is broken in such a way that. If I see someone else not tipping, then I have to tip even more to make up the difference.
In the US, servers and restaurant staff tip like 100% of the time they go out because they know how important it is with our current pay laws, and they know that the waiter expecting that tip isn’t the one making the laws or who deserves to be punished for them. So that tip is almost always going to someone else who also tips.
Btw, don’t bother arguing with me that tipping is wrong so we shouldn’t do it. I agree that it’s wrong, but abstaining punishes the wrong people (servers, not owners or policymakers). So instead of writing a comment, write a letter to you local govt to eliminate sub-minimum wages for tipped workers, and keep tipping poor waiters and drivers til they change something.
I work at the most expensive restaurant in my town, FOH workers are paid $2.13 (regardless of tips) and servers have to tip out 30% to assistants and bar. If everybody stopped tipping one day then some of them will literally not even have the money to buy gas to go home.
Yes, and then the restaurant would close because noone can work there. They might have to consider paying a decent wage.
Y’all act like there aren’t restaurants that already pay a standard wage. Stop supporting your oppressors, its a shitty look.
Usually if you make under the federal minimum wage they’ll bump you up to minimum wage for the shift. I know my restaurant does. But yeah thats still nothing
Our job does not apparently, asked my sous chef about it when I learned and he doesn’t understand if it’s legal or what
Its illegal, they legally need to compensate you the difference if your tipped wages is under the federal minimum wage.
Cool, now the underpaid staff has to find counsel to go sue their employer. Guess it worked out in the end.
The only way you can help increase the wages is to not tip, all it does is subsidize the owners
The problem is, in the meantime some of the worst paid people in
your countrythe US will suddenly have no money.The only way you can help increase wages is to reform
yourthe US voting system, so you can reformyourthe minimum wage.You will never be able to vote with your wallet out of this one.
Surprise, suprise, in Australia, the minimum wage is okay (not fantastic, but you can live on it), and we don’t tip (or at least, the vast majority of transactions never attract a tip. In hospitality venues there is a tip jar, that’s it).
It’s all about how far you look into the future.
If you look into the future by 20 years, then yes, not tipping is the best way to improve the average wages of servers, and in fact the wages would probably rise to match exactly the loss in tippings.
But if you look at only the next 3 months, wages might not rise quickly enough to compensate the losses through tipping, and that puts servers in a (temporary) hardship.
So, it’s all about whether you’re far-sighted or short-sighted.
Unfortunately as this very thread shows, a lot of Americans are mindbogglingly not in agreement about that. Which explains a lot about the current predicament of the country.
It goes both ways. We do want families and kids to come in and eat. Some people don’t tip well because they don’t have the means and that’s okay! It’s socialized service. You can look at it like you’re supporting the people who are working and those who want their kids to have experiences they otherwise couldn’t. Just like the guy who orders 3 cocktails subsidies the water and sandwhich guy. Or the 4 kids meals and fries guy. You can look at it a lot of ways.
Tip your waitstaff. Don’t be a pos.
This is how a greedy person thinks. It’s morbid, but fascinating.
I am not in a financial race against the people who do not tip. And if this guy thinks I am then he failed to factor in that people pleasers probably go a lot further socially in life and thus are likely to make more money. Maybe I tip not because I want to please, but because I have more expendable income than the average self-limiting greedy asshole.
I don’t think the richest people are the ones who want to please people the most, I think the less they want to please people, the richer they get. Then they run society with their wealth and the people pleasers are at their mercy
The richest people, yes certainly. But they didn’t get rich merely by not tipping, and the moron who wrote the tweet is certainly not that level of wealthy. I’m just talking about 99% of people, the working class.
