Since Wrestlemania there’s been nothing but stories about John Cena winning an amazing 17th title, blah blah blah… It’s a “History making moment”, yadda yadda yadda…
Like…of course he did. It’s the storyline. It’s quite literally “in the script”.
This isn’t an achievement. Why is this in my sports news next to last night’s hockey scores instead of next to an article about who was the bitchiest on the lastest episode of Real Housewives?
I get it. I loved Wrestling growing up. Back when we all WERE pretending it was real; Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, etc… But I thought at some point they steered into the whole “entertainment” aspect when most of us grew the hell up and clued into the absurdity of it all.
It’s a soap opera for men. Sure the storyline is made up, but people still like being entertained.
Note, I am assuming the match was good. I haven’t watch wrestling in a while, but some of those old matches are still fun to watch.
I’ve heard the soap opera comparison before. But I think “circus” is technically more accurate. You’ve got these very obvious professional athletes performing a well-rehearsed routine that is physically demanding and dramatically delivered.
Like, would you call a tightrope walker or a trapeze artist “fake”? If a dozen clowns pile out of a car and start performing back flips and somersaults and climbing into human pyramids and spraying one another with seltzer bottles, would you dismiss it as an obviously scripted display?
Would you go to a Harlem Globetrotters game and complain when they pull out a springboard and start doing stunt slam dunks?
It’s a show! It doesn’t need to be competitive in order to be fun.
Yeah from a physical aspect yes you are correct but wrestling has the storylines that the circus doesn’t. The Jerry springer like drama and feuds that people really get invested in with the same level of chair throwing.
wrestling has the storylines that the circus doesn’t
Every Cirque-du-Soleil I’ve been to has had a storyline.
The Jerry Springer like drama and feuds that people really get invested in with the same level of chair throwing.
There’s a ton of hype that builds up around the actual events, in no small part because the events themselves are physically exhausting and the producers need to fill hours of time with minutes of match.
But we see the exact same kind of shit during the Olympics. Two talking heads reading out an athlete’s life story for half an hour, right before you get to see a three minute floor routine or a sixteen second bobsled run.
The outcome of the match is predetermined while the participants pretend that it isn’t. That is why there are constant arguments about whether or not it’s “fake”.
The outcome of the match is predetermined while the participants pretend that it isn’t.
The adventure is in the journey, not the destination. I don’t care whether you win or you lose when I came to see two roided out giants do backflip kicks into one another’s torsos while their friends spray silly string to distract the combatants from the sidelines.
That is why there are constant arguments about whether or not it’s “fake”.
There is absolutely no question that the outcome of the matches is predetermined, in the same way that there is absolutely no doubt that the Rat King is going to get killed by the Nutcracker at the ballet. But both wrestling and ballet are athletic endeavors.
I agree that most of them are athletic, but they simply aren’t competing in an athletic competition.
I think your comparison to the Globetrotters is on point. In the ballet and other examples, the difference to me is that they’re not pretending to be in a ballet competition while dancing the ballet.
There’s no doubt that what most wrestlers do requires skill, talent, and athleticism but it’s “fake” in that what you’re watching isn’t an authentic athletic competition despite the people involved pretending that it is.
In the ballet and other examples, the difference to me is that they’re not pretending to be in a ballet competition while dancing the ballet.
In the Nutcracker, at least, they’re pretending to fence, in a choreographed dance. A first-time naive viewer who came out of the show offended when they discover skill at fencing has nothing to do with whether the dancers playing the Nutcracker or the Rat King wins would sound silly.
I do think that the kayfabe is what sets wrestling apart from more traditional performance art. The carnival-barker lying-to-your-face aspect of the performance is what makes it feel extra circus-y. But when you accept that the kayfabe is just part of the performance, you stop feeling offended by it and start recognizing degrees of commitment to the bit as part of the artform.
In the Nutcracker, at least, they’re pretending to fence, in a choreographed dance.
And no one writes stories about who won the fencing match.
Wrestling takes things to a ridiculous level compared to all other performances.
And no one writes stories about who won the fencing match.
Because it’s the same story that’s been running for the last century. Pro-Wrestling shows are just stories you haven’t seen before. And reviews of new performances are written about regularly.
Wrestling takes things to a ridiculous level
Sure. The exaggeration and the very deliberate kayfabe is a big part of the appeal. But then you see that in Cosplay and at the Renaissance Faire all the time. Running onto the tournament grounds and shouting “These aren’t real knights! They aren’t really jousting!!” is still considered gauche. And it breezes past the skills you need to ride a horse, maintain a kit, and put on the display without hurting yourself or your partner.
This still doesn’t explain why Cena’s victory is being reported to much hype in the sports sections.
For the same reason any athlete’s performance is heavily promoted in sports media.
These are all just ads. All sports media is fundamentally advertisement.
Because they need to sell papers?
Circus comparison is good but I prefer drag race. It’s a bunch of (generally) men in costumes and make up performing very well-practiced routines for the sole purpose of entertainment, with one rigged winner at the end.
Maybe wrestling fans wouldn’t like that comparison as much.
I’ve never seen ‘drag race’ used in this context, and I was wondering how you were about to compare drag racing (like with cars) with wrestling.
Lol yeah sorry I should’ve said drag queen competitions. What you described happens to me all the time in reverse when people talk about car drag racing. I watch too much RuPaul.
I think you can leave off “for men”
Facts.
Meh, it was okay I suppose.
Cena doesn’t play a heel very well, and it’s kind of shitty that they used crotch shots in both of the WM main events.
Living in the western world - I hear nothing about Wrestling…
Same. US defaultism strikes again. I don’t think I have ever heard anyone talk about wrestling in my life
I live in the US and also never hear about wrestling.
Wrestling has a significant presence in Central America, Japan, and Europe. Presumably other regions as well but I really don’t follow the sport so my experience is all second-hand.
Where in Europe?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_in_the_United_Kingdom
Quick little history of the last century in the UK.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_wrestling_promotions_in_Europe
Active circuits are pretty much everywhere.
That’s not significant at all. The viership is practically non existent. I’ve lived in 3 inches different countries in Europe plus the US. Not once have I’ve seen wrestling make the news anywhere in Europe. It’s extremely fringe.
Most sports never make the news. Even in the US it’s pretty fringe except for the wrestlers who transition to Hollywood, like John Cena or Dave Bautista. Though it had a heyday from the Hulk Hogan era through Stone Cold and The Rock when people were much more aware, generally. I don’t know anyone who watches but I know a bunch of people who used to watch.
Real wrestling yes.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWfeskasuOjBfZ5WxG66bvBeI8XQtNHA5
Sports theater as well.
God that’s cringe.
Nah, at least this once it’s definitely not a US defaultism thing.
As an American, this is the first time I’ve thought about pro wrestling in a very very long time.
Wrestling is a form of theatre.
Its just the high octane, sensationalized, ridiculous, coked up, american pop culture version of Theatre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnvSs3HEz2o excellent video where someone talks about why Wrestling got popular
Wrestling Isn’t Sports. But it also isn’t fake. Not entirely. the outcomes are usually scripted, and theres a card they are usually following (Sometimes, they aren’t. Whether its a botch, a shoot, etc) (botch means a mistake, a shoot means someone’s not acting, and they’re throwing real punches)
but the acrobatics and "stunts’ people are doing, are very real. an incredible amount of effort and skill is needed to have the physical ability and timing to make the stuff look real for the kids and cameras
thats why its called sports entertainment,
I think OP is specifically asking why Pro Wrestling is being treated like it’s real in some sports publications.
Just to further your point. It’s like Cirque du Soleil, scripted, but they are really doing those moves.
Counterpoint- all sports are silly. That’s why they are called games.
I don’t dunk on wrestling fans anymore because people are free to enjoy whatever they want. But it’s always been like this. It didn’t change - you did. Personal growth!
Not all sports are games, if you cant quickly grab some friends and head out to play it, its not a game.
All sports are games. Not all athletic competitions are sports.
What athletic competition would not be a game if all sports are games? I mean, honestly, what is the difference you see between “sport” and “athletic competition”?
You can extend or contract “game” as much as you want, but I can’t think of a definition of game that would encompass all sports but not all athletic competitions (if there really is a difference).
Track and field events are not games.
Gymnastics or any kind of event involving a choreographed routine. Diving. Really any kind of race.
I don’t consider all athletic competitions to be sports.
Why track and field events not games? They have rules, can be won or lost, and can be played casually if you think that is a requirment.
Take shot put, hammer throw, and javelin, for example. The game is who can throw the object in a certain way the furtherest. I could play a shot put game with some friends at a river bank by drawing a line in the sand and seeing who can huck the heaviest rock on the shore the furthest.
There’s a reason they call them Olympic Games.
Really any activity with some structure is a game if it is play and not “real”, even better if it can help practice a skill useful in life. There is a difference between a running race (a game) and running for your life from a bear (not a game). Between MMA and a street fight. Between war games and a shooting war.
Nah. Those aren’t games. The rules are often quite loose. You’re often not even directly competing with anyone else. Like, one person acts, and later another person acts and the results are compared. Your opponent’s actions don’t affect your results. Those field events don’t even necessarily have a set order to act on… people just wander in and out making their attempts, it’s mostly them competing with themselves.
You could run a race asynchronously as well, but time constraints prevent that.
Games have action, AND reaction. They have strategy. Throw things harder isn’t a strategy. Run faster longer isn’t a strategy.
The rules are quite loose? Why else would they have eagle eyed officials watching closely to disqualify athletes for infractions.
Games can absolutely be played asynchronously. Games can have scoring systems instead of head-to-head.
Would you say pinball is not a game?
I didn’t think I needed to get out the dictionary definition of game, but I hope this clears it up… Definitions from Oxford Languages: “noun, a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.”
That’s not the definition of a game, though.
Loads of games need co-ordinated access to specific resources, from chess to the 2001 release of Halo. Doesn’t mean they’re not games.
The line between games and sports is entirely arbitrary, and changes from person to person.
Yes I know. Real sports have “motor” in front of them. lol
If your game doesn’t involve traveling above 100mph and pulling more than 2g it’s not a sport 😤
What outlets do you follow?
Because this is the first I’m hearing about it.
Yeah, that’s kinda silly. I can see an argument that WWE wrestlers are athletes, no problems there. But they don’t actually perform in any sort of athletic competition, which makes thinking of it as a “sport” a little weird. If WWE is a sport, then so is ballet.
Roberto Bolle wins unprecedented 17th championship against King Mouse in the Nutcracker cage match!
We’ve regressed into believing a lot of imaginary things are real.
Wrestling is the least of our worries.
I don’t watch wrestling, and I haven’t heard anything about it beyond this post. We must hang out in different circles.
I mean people get excited over TV shows all the time? Doesnt have to be real for people to talk about it and be excited
No, we know the outcome’s predetermined. Last year’s Wrestlemania was basically written six-months ahead of time.
It’s still fun to watch though, and the athletes do some amazing shit.
I wouldn’t call them athletes if their skill isn’t what determines the outcome. Performers certainly like cirque du Soleil.
I wanted to be a pro wrestler in my teens, I hung around with local wrestlers and did ring crew work from time to time when a show was local. Eventually they started giving me some training and let me tell you it takes a lot of athletic ability to make those moves look good without injuring the other person.
Just because the outcome is predetermined doesn’t mean the lead up to the outcome isn’t an athletic competition. They are competing in that ring, it’s just that they are competing for a chance at a belt and earning the belt is the equivalent of a promotion in the workplace. Champions get better pay and more opportunities.
Why not? What definition of ‘athlete’ are you even using? Did you just decide this?
athlete Athletes compete or strive against others to attain a goal, TV wrestlers perform, or enact a feat before an audience.
You could say there goal is to perform for that audience, as a team….of athletes.
No idea why my previous comment shows as quoted, but whatever
My argument is that if they were actually competing that would mess with the performative nature of the storytelling.
wwe have to labe them as sports performers, so they arnt subject to any regulatory issues, like with roids and standards. we know alot of the wrestlers was on PEDS, rock and cena was the most obvious.
LOL
Go try to do moonsault off a steel cage without breaking your neck and then you can judge.
Still not an athlete.
Wrestling and the media surrounding it will always be written/performed as though it is real. There were just as many adults that knew it was fake when we were kids that didn’t. It’s santa clause and easter bunny style culture. Once you are disillusioned, if you want to continue being involved, you join in on the act.
I know professional wrestling is as real as the MCU or the latest episode of Severance. I am still entertained by all three.
Wrestling winds up in the “sports” section because news outlets have to classify it somehow. That’s not the fault of wrestling fans.
There’s really no need in life to yuck other people’s yum. If it’s not for you, that’s cool.
Sports is kind of a stretch. Professional wrestling should be classified as entertainment with the soap operas and marvel slop.
Totally agree but for the opposite reason.
Wrasslin’ is very story driven. Not everyone has time to watch, and the sports news outlets is all spoilers.
It’s like a Harry Potter fan opening their news feed to “Snape kills Dumbledore after epic battle!” plastered all over the news on the day after the book came out. (my apologies to any Harry Potter fans who haven’t read all the books or seen all the movies by now, in 2025).
I guess they pretend that wrestling is real to have more fun? idk.
Since when is that allowed!? /s
I’m fine with that. My bigger question was simply why am I seeing it in sports news instead of entertainment news all of a sudden? It’s not a sport. it’s a variety show sponsored by the makers of steroids.
Since when is it forbidden? Who is gatekeeping the sports page?
And I think you see it in sports news because it reaches their demographic better—some WWE fans are too insecure in their masculinity to visit the arts and culture section, and I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that football and wrestling have a huge crossover demographic.
We have been living in a post truth world lately, and pretending that WWE is a sport is just another facet of it. Strap in, the nonsense is just getting started.
Obligatory:
It’s a soap opera with fighting. Of course fans are talking about the characters and the story. Nobody talking about anything that happens in a soap Opera will add that it’s just fiction, they’re talking about the events.
