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Hey does Pepperidge farms remember all the fucking morons on Lemmy urging not to vote for Harris because she was allegedly complicit in genocide? I sure as shit do.
Know what’s gonna be objectively worse, 100% regardless of the veracity those allegations? The reality that they helped forge instead.
Cool, we remember - now what? What do we materially do now to resist that isn’t just blaming non-voters online?
Blaming other people and feeling superior is how Democrats win! Aren’t you paying attention? Hey, where are they taking us??!
Get ready to vote Dem really hard in 2028 /s
Go protest, resist being part of that genocide by laying down work. Call or write your local representatives voice your opinion and ask how you can help to stop that.
There aren’t many options… Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters, who are complicit in creating our current situation.
Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters
Should probably blame the people who actually voted for the guy and not an unrelated third party
Bunch of butthurt authoritarians whining about people they failed to engage and saying “but that’s the system we’re in” like that doesn’t apply equally to having to convince people to vote FOR you
Blaming both camps is the best way to go. But why spend efforts blaming the Trump voters? Presumably, they aren’t subject to appeals of logic or compassion or they wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place. So we know they’re pieces of shit. But the jury is still out on the protest non-voters. Did they fail to vote because they disagreed with kamala on a minority of her positions, or did they just not want to elect a brown woman? Assuming that they understood the choices of outcomes between candidates, they voluntarily chose to ignore the greater good for their own personal disagreement. Additionally, there’s evidence that if those protest voters had voted for Kamala she would have won. Therefore, they are to blame. To ignore that is to be an apologist for those at fault.
‘allegedly’
The mental gymnastics will only intensify as these fucking crypto-nazis get to distance themselves from their beliefs and actions of just a few months ago.
The point was to pressure the Dems into giving up on genocide. You wanna talk about “pepperidge farm remembers”, I got one for ya
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
Hey, what’s weirder? Not voting for someone committing genocide, or being unwilling to stop committing a genocide even if it costs you the election?
How does it feel that the only thing that Harris had to do was say “I will stop weapons to Israel” and she would of won?
You can’t keep blaming the voters when the strategy was at fault. They knew they would lose votes. They thought they could court the centrists and liberal Republicans to make up for it. They were so fucking wrong. And somehow it’s not their own fault for having the worst campaign strategy known to man.
Like, Christ. Y’all ain’t ever gonna stop trying to blame leftists. You’ll be up against the wall with leftists fighting for your life and you’ll still be like “can’t believe you didn’t vote Harris”. I can’t believe Harris threw away the election over the continued genocide of palastinians. That’s fucking crazy. Is that not crazy to you? You don’t find it fucking insane that the Dems would rather a fascist state than stop actively committing a genocide? Cause that’s the fucking Gambit they ran and look where we are.
Look. I’m pissed. Your pissed. But we are just people with no power. Same with all those voters you wanna complain about. All we have is the ability to yell and vote. And while I voted for Harris out of fucking fear, I cannot blame the people who yelled “I will not vote for you if you keep committing genocide” and were fucking CALLED ON THAT SHIT. What kind of monster gambles with their own base over a fucking genocide?
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
I do, and was downvoted for calling it out from my last account, and this one for remembering it.
Are these people gaslit or are they doing it for their favorite political celebrities who don’t know they exist or care for them?
Anything other than concede to the left. Gotta protect that capital
Democrats love losing because it gives them more money as Republicans enact evil policies. “We can’t stop them! …unless you give us what’s left of your paycheck! That’s how we can stop trump! Your money!”
voting is power, hell not voting is power. is it a fair system?
fuck no, but not voting did help get us here
disclaimer: gerrymandering and voter suppression also played a huge role
You know who committed genocide?
Stalin killed thousands of Poles. The USA had lynchings going on all through WW2. I’m not even going to start on the UK.
And they were all better alternatives than Hitler.
Greatest defence in the world. Vote for lynchings, better than extermination camps.
Or. Hear me out. Put a fucking bullet in both of them some bitches and stop accepting the lesser evil.
And what gun are you going to use?
Tell me what plan you have that puts Trump out.
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Stalin killed thousands of Poles.
Won’t anybody think of those poor innocent Germans Stalin killed?
The USSR was at war with right-wing insurgents. If you want to go down a rabbithole, do some research on any “polish resistance”, 50% chance you’ll come across nazi collaboration, warcrimes directed at jews, or both.
So, you’re saying Stalin should have turned down help from the Brits and Americans?
What are we talking about? I’m just saying one of those leaders was not like the other.
I’m talking about getting allies.
If you’re saying Stalin was perfect, okay. He still got in bed with the US and England.
Are you saying he shouldn’t have done that?
lol Stalin wasn’t perfect, he did some awful things such as the internment or relocation of minorities in preparation for WWII and various advice/demands he gave to the CPC that was catastrophic.
But to address your point, your enemy giving you equipment to help you fight another enemy doesn’t track to telling anyone telling the democrats that genocide is unpopular to shut up.
If yall had helped us, the democrats might have listened and not have driven the bus off the cliff. If we had shut up, they absolutely would have driven off the cliff.
I remember the BBC manufacturing consent for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris complicity genocide as well.
Honestly not sure why it hasn’t been suggested that the ‘no vote’ bullshit was a tactic to get Repubs the win. Sure as hell worked and didn’t do anything to solve the issue, as we can blatantly see now.
Wasn’t the idea to get the Democrats to explicitly state they were a anti genocide and promise policies to back that up?
That was the big ask, yes.
It has, it’s been a conspiracy on lemmy for the past 6 months. Any time anyone criticized Biden or Harris for aiding a genocide someone would pop up and say they’re a secret republican or Russian bot.
If I had a nickel for every time I was called one of those, I’d have enough to flee the country from Trump.
It has, constantly. Anyone who disagrees with you folks is labelled a Russian bot who wants Trump to win. Even if they fall in line they were labelled that way, just for saying things like, “I’ll vote for Biden but his age is a legitimate concern.”
You must be unquestioning, do not question the party! You don’t wanna be one of those do you? You will vote for who we put in charge without your first amendment rights to question them!
It absolutely was. And it was pushed by tiktok, a Chinese psyop.
[citation needed]
TikTok’s algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race -
From an article posted very recently in Politics
…that study demonstrates how Republican talking points were more easily boosted in TikTok’s algorithm. As in: Republicans were better at getting their message across on social media.
It also doesn’t do, in any way, what was asked: citation on how it was a Chinese psyop.
Interesting that such a fucked system exists that could allow the 50/50 chance that who wins an election could singlehandedly decide if everything is fascism and genocide or not, with what appears to be no real checks of power in place.
And you choose to blame those who have nearly no control over said system.
Lemmy is also a tiny community relative to other similar communities online. Lenmy is also not even just people in the US. You also don’t know how many of those posts were trolls or bots.
It sure seems to me that the larger system and set of choices are completely fucked to begin with and gives the “people” next to no options or say in much of anything.
But yes. If Lemmy people had not slammed Harris… then… something might have been… different?
The system is fucked but we exist within that system.
That’s the thing American citizens/voters need to remember if/when we get past this term: Trump didn’t do this by himself. He was enabled and empowered by Republican (and a significant number of Democrat) members of legislation, as well as crooked judges across every level from state to Supreme. Trump will be kicked out and Republicans will say “Phew, that guy was a disaster! Right, guys? Good thing we all worked together and survived it.” And we can’t just let them do it; everyone currently serving in office from the GOP and 60% (if I’m being very generous to the remainder) of the Democrats should be barred from holding office again. Extend that to the judges too.
The GOP has worked hard to sew shite into every strand of the fabric that binds the nation together. And so insiduously that many idiots will stare at a shite-brown rag and say it’s still the same, ol’ Red, White, and Blue they remember.
So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”
…and then not pull the lever.
If? None of us are remotely close to any trolley lever. Grow up and get real. Your idealism is a garbage pile you treat as a high horse.
None of you crypto-nazis can be honest about this discussion. You keep lying and presenting the choice as between two unequally bad options. If anything the democrats have been objectively worse in hindsight. There would have been no ceasefire if you had your way.
Now that Trump is in office you want to put on your resistance hats again like we didn’t all just watch you rabidly support the genocide yourselves.
It was the same cease fire that was on the table months ago, the only difference was that Isreal was going to continue the genocide until it looked good for their choice of president. And they didn’t even honor it.
The idea that the zionists were conditionally doing genocide for a year just to make your political opponent look good is fucking insane. You’re extremely stupid for not recognizing the relationship between the US and israel gave Biden the ability to stop it any day he wanted as well.
I didn’t say that. I said they were going to SAY they were going to honor a cease fire to favor a certain President. They fully intended to continue the genocide unabated either way.
That cease fire was put forth under Biden’s watch and was “agreed to” right before the transition with the caveat that it was trumps team that succeeded. Do you not remember Biden getting raked over the coals for this when he was announcing it?
Real fucking annoying how you both completely sidestepped my point and doubled down on the shit you began your comment lying about not saying. So I’m just going to repeat myself. Maybe this time it will sink in.
You’re extremely stupid for not recognizing the relationship between the US and israel gave Biden the ability to stop it any day he wanted.
I think people overestimating just how much the average person cares about wars abroad. This applies to every country.
Those millions of democratic voters that voted Biden in 2020, saw that the cost of living keeps going up, inflation happens and correlates with Biden’s term, and most people doesn’t understand that:
Correlation =/= Causation.
Most of those 7 million Democratic voters that voted Biden but didn’t vote Harris are probably thinking: I voted for Joe Biden and nothing changed, why bother voting
I doubt that 7 Million people suddenly cared about a foreign genocide (like when have the average civillian cared?)
I mean she entirely was.
And considering the US blocked every ceasefire under her and Biden, and people pointed out even a year ago that the US and Israel want an alternative to the Suez canal, and people pointed out that Israel was moving Palestinians out with the US’s help in order to do this, all that happened. Pretty sure it was going exactly the same way. If you haven’t noticed, democrats aren’t exactly sitting up and saying this is ethnic cleansing or genocide even now. Or trying to fight it.
You’re an idiot and the reason Trump won and is ruining the country. Congrats you enlightened centrist. Stupid fuck
My guy I’m exceptionally left wing in my politics I’m not even close to centrist. I’m not sure how you got that from my response.
Hey, everybody, we need to ignore trolls like this. They’re trying to divide the left. Instead, we have to unite to fight Trump.
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And that’s all you care about- being right. Seems by your own admission, you are completely fine with what’s happening in Palestine either way,
All you want is for everyone to agree with you that your opinion was the right one.
I argued with them constantly. I think a lot of them were bots but whatever
So, every hypothetical situation besides Trump winning, in the end, did not play out, due to the failure of the American population to mount a united opposition to Trump. Harris didn’t win, De la Cruz didn’t win, Stein didn’t win, West didn’t win, etc.
Now let’s focus on this question for two seconds, because I don’t think you all have ever actually addressed it. Putting aside the supposed “viability” as a reason for to vote for them - since that’s circular logic before the election has even happened. Putting that ASIDE. Of all the non-Trump candidates, who, in the seat of the Presidency, would have been the best candidate for the job? Who, sitting in that office, would have produced the best outcome for Americans, or the world as a whole?
Alright new atrocity from Israel just dropped, who should we blame:
The fascists running Israelthe fascists running the USthe democratic party who teed up the atrocity- a couple hundred leftists on lemmy who didn’t vote
All of the above, plus:
- Reddit for turning their platform into a partisan shithole
- Elon Musk, Sundar Pichai and Mark Zuckerberg for allowing right wing propaganda and disinformation to proliferate on their platforms.
- Joe Rogan for political bias (inviting Donald Trump and not Kamala Harris onto his podcast)
Clearly it’s the leftists, they personally didn’t vote or voted third party or voted for Trump or whatever we need to say to deflect blame, and they did it in every swing state! It’s their fault, not the candidate!
This is sort of strawmanning some of the criticism. Leftists who held up nonvoting as some kind of magic bullet for gaza definitely seem like they are dumber than rocks for thinking nonvoting is the same as strategic voting.
However, There’s a bunch of like consultants and dem strategists that have clung to this to scapegoat these people as though there wasn’t a long chain of massive errors dems and their braindead consultants weren’t heavily involved in.
At the end of the day just stop listening to “not voting is a moral stance” people and put fires under the real culprits: lying republican media and apathetic democrat politicians
Leftists who held up nonvoting as some kind of magic bullet for gaza definitely seem like they are dumber than rocks for thinking nonvoting is the same as strategic voting.
Hey I see you got one one too, nice strawman you got there
I see
do you, really?
It’s the Palestinian Muslim Leftists who have completely overrun our beloved liberal institutions and undermined them. These tankies are the fifth column that brought Harris’s glorious march to office down from the inside.
We clearly need to purge our companies, our schools, and our political organizations of anyone who resembles, aligns with, or appears to look like a Palestinian or a Leftist sympathizer.
We absolutely must do this in order to Beat Trump. You do want to Beat Trump, don’t you?
I sure do! So we must:
- Keep COVID-19 away from the public eye as trump wanted
- Keep Mexicans in cages like Trump wanted
- Build the wall using federal funding despite several federal laws saying we can’t, like Trump wanted
- Allow the erosion of rights for BIPOC like Trump wanted
- Allow for the removal of rights for women, like Trump wanted
- Allow for the removal of rights for trans people in red states, like Trump wanted
- Fund genocide because it’s good for my 3000 year old book, like Trump wanted
- Boast about how we’ll have the biggest military, like Trump wanted.
- And do nothing to help the population with inflated prices of housing, rent, medical needs, groceries, and say we did all we could and you should be thankful the economy is doing great, like Trump wanted!
Anything else is Dreamland! Why wouldn’t I want what Trump stans want? I want to court them so much I’ll vote for anyone who’s on the blue team, no matter how much they hate me!
- Vote in support of unqualified and fascist Cabinet members even when your vote doesn’t matter one bit to signal that you have absolutely no qualms with playing on Team Destroy What Little Democracy America Has
I personally can’t wait for them to corralled all those men who are trans! They should be punished! They should chop off their dicks. Then I could probably get mine extended uhh 2 or 3 more inches would be totally fine.
Look, it’s time to take stock and move ahead, we need to focus on the here and now and try to do some good, and prevent some bad.
To that end, I recommend that both liberals and leftists focus on performatively scolding imaginary interlocutors from the other group over semi anonymous forums.
The neoliberal Dems are currently rubber stamping Trump’s fascist agenda
They aren’t interested in helping people.
Liberalism doesnt fucking exist in America, its called neoliberalism and its racist af. Do you all not realize how far right wing America actually is or do you just love to play stupid?
It’s very nice of you to assume it’s an act.
(But neoliberalism is by definition a branch of liberalism, a broad ideological grouping that includes America when it had widespread chattel slavery and Manifest Destiny)
We do, some of us are disgusted by it, some of us love it (we love fascism here in the US of A), it is just centrist status quo managers that pretend or actually believe that the goalposts aren’t all completely determined in their location and manner by the rightwing and the rich, subject to erratic and sudden unrationalized major changes.
How about the lemmy people who actively campaigned for trump and attacked anyone for Biden because Biden was anti Palestine. Those people can go fuck themselves. Its a guarantee they swayed votes to trump based on lies.
Which Lemmy voter actively campaigned for Trump?
They mean people who didn’t campaign for Harris hard enough. It’s the obvious next step from “if you didn’t vote for Harris you voted for Trump”; “if you didn’t actively campaign for Harris you actively campaigned for Trump”.
That’s disingenuous. It was active campaigning against Harris, saying she and Biden were complicit in genocide and that a vote for either was a vote for genocide. Actively campaigning against one candidate is effectively (if not outrightly) campaigning for that candidate’s rival.
lemmy people who actively campaigned for trump
Liar.
I keep seeing this sentiment here lately, yet no evidence that it happened on a meaningful scale is ever presented.
Uh, well, I’m not the commenter you’re replying to but I personally saw it all over the place. You didn’t? There was at least one in what felt like every thread for months.
There were a few
Leftists, regardless of how they voted.
Its good to mock those couple hundred people anyway, but to blame them for it is scapegoating. They’re obviously kind of dumb but yeah like Joe Biden running for re-election is like probably the #1 dick that Democrats tripped over. Campaigning with abysmally unpopular Cheneys, buying ads on republican media instead of knocking on doors or spending money on dem neutral media, focusing too much on trump instead of on strengths, moving right on immigration all contributed.
2024 was nothing less than a strategic clusterfuck.
Dems should run primaries even when they’re running for re-election. Its free coverage and right wing media has to address it.
They stopped running primaries because they almost lost control of the party to Bernie Sanders in 2016.
The DNC will never make that mistake again. It made their doners very upset.
But they are still running primaries? If talking about the presidential specifically, they did a typical primary in 2020 and sure in 2024 it was not done, but we’ve got people blaming “real primaries” against incumbents for losses in 76, 80, and 92 and neither party does it as a result.
It is, as others have said, a backwards cause and effect. Weak candidates are more likely to have an incumbent primary forced on them. It makes more sense to run primaries every election because it will allow candidates more actual screen time.
Look at it this way. Of the last 2 elections the party that ran a primary won both times. If you do the last 20 years only Obama won election without a primary. Thats 33% odds of a no primary win.
The thing that changed? Citizen’s united
Neither party runs presidential primaries when their guy is incumbent. It’s almost superstitious, that having someone ‘primary’ your incumbent is going to make them lose (because of losses under those circumstances by Ford, Carter, and Bush Sr.
Of course the cause/effect is backwards, they were primaried because their administration was at risk, they weren’t at risk because of the primary, but as superstitions go…
Hopefully they’ll switch there tone on the “incumbent advantage” after back to back one term presidencies.
If the fascists running israel, the fascists running the us, the DNC, and all the other people that are to blame for this outcome were on Lemmy, you’d see us arguing against them a lot more
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To be fair to the BBC, they’re ‘supposed’ to report the facts without judgement. How successful they are at that is debated endlessly, you can find anyone of any political flavour who will swear blind the BBC is ‘obviously’ biased against ‘them’. They can’t win no matter what they do.
The problem for the BBC is that not all stories have equally valid opposing views but they are forced to treat both sides equally at all times… So as the world drifts further and further to insanity, their reporting makes crazy positions seem legitimate as they have to be aired alongside more mainstream views.
It worked OK when the world was fairly stable and political positions were close together. It doesn’t work when political positions are so polarised and extreme.
Case in point: Brexit. The BBC really struggled in challenging extreme positions and outright lies during the brexit campaign.
Unfortunately though I’m not sure there is much alternative. Its fat from perfect but provably the best a public service broadcaster can try to do. At least it tries to provide the facts so people can make up their own minds - that in itself remains laudable.
Definitely agree with you there. In an effort to appear balanced they try and present different sides of an argument as if they’re both valid. I guess that’s how Farage got on so much.
That this is a very poor excuse at propaganda because the BBC goes out of its way to use “loaded terms” when it comes to adversaries of the empire.
Here is an example from yesterday. https://youtu.be/34Ta0IcQi-E?t=85
Impartiality goes out of the window when the BBC needs to remind everyone that “the Palestinian health ministry is ran by Hamas which is designated as a terrorist organisation in America, the UK and Europe” every single time the death toll in Gaza is brought up as well.
“The unprecedented attack on October 7th.” is here to justify Israel slaughtering tens of thousands of starving civilians.
of the empire.
I thought sun already set on that
They had a bazillion complaints (and still get them) that they report the figures at all and that they don’t treat Hamas being a terrorist organisation as a statement of fact. For a couple of weeks after the October the 7th attack, the reporting was more neutral, and the whole rest of the British press was up in arms about the BBC being antisemitic, and the current situation was the compromise that calmed it down. In a world where Israel having done nothing wrong ever is somehow part of the Overton window, this is what counts as impartial. Impartiality is a bad thing when it’s forced to apply to viewpoints divorced from reality.
Watch the video I linked if you are not convinced. I considered the introduction to be rather long so I timestamped over it. But it sounds like you might need to watch it from the beginning. The video is not about Hamas by the way. That is only another example.
Nah, I remember back when Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party and the BBC gleefully participated in the campaign to slander him, including in a news program having as a background a large picture of him digitally altered to put a Soviet hood on his head.
I also remember countless “two side” discussions hosted by the BBC on things like worker rights or the Environment were they put a professional politician on the side against it facing a total amateur on the side for it.
The BBC’s “two sides” has always been a multi-layered propaganda format, starting by the small detail that any social and political subject which is not ridiculously simple has more than 2 options to interpret and tackle it - in other words, more than 2 sides - and going into the above mentioned point that their supposedly open “giving equal voice to both sides” is actually controlled by their choice of the subject matter, who represents each side and even the interviewer’s take on each side and accompanying materials (a typical example would be them reporting as event as “such and such happened” when the source is IDF versus “According to Hamas such and such happened” when the source is Hamas).
The BBC are very sophisticated in how they do it, but their output is heavily spinned and propagandistic.
See: More than 100 BBC staff accuse broadcaster of Israel bias in Gaza coverage
They’re not trying to be fair, they’re trying to be pro-israel.
They are not impartial on this one
If both ends of the spectrum are saying it, they’re probably threading the needle pretty well.
“Both the Palestinians and Israelis are saying they are being treated unfairly. This means we are treating both fairly”. - enlightened centrist after Biden refuses to send one shipment of 2000 pound bombs to Israel.
The BBC has been complicit in the last 16 months of genocide and for good reason.
Robbie Gibb, who is on the BBC’s Board of Trustees, is also Editor of the Jewish Chronicle, a fanatically Zionist rag whose funding is hidden but suspected to be tied to the Israeli embassy.
Raffi Berg, BBC News online editor, is a former state department employee, fan of Netanyahu and has been described by one journalists as "This guy’s entire job is to water down everything that’s too critical of Israel”
More here:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/bbc-civil-war-gaza-israel-biased-coverage
Meanwhile 🦗🦗🦗🦗 from the genocide Joe caucus.
Hey, me here from the Genocide Joe caucus, I voted for Harris, Trump is a despicable pathetic genocidal idiot…and Genocide Joe disgustingly facilitated the conditions for a genocide to be expanded upon by Trump.
Also while saying all those things I was chewing gum and walking, heap praise on me for doing the impossible.
I’m not sure the incessant chorus of 'I told you so’s is really helping the cause.
Personally, I’m watching the dumpster fire from up on your hat, without any option to participate in your elections either way, but it’s still getting pretty grating. Surely, there’s a better strategy.
I’m not sure the incessant chorus of 'I told you so’s is really helping the cause.
I’ve heard so much MSNBC bigotry in the last month.
“Palestinians cost us the election!”
“Trans people cost us the election!”
“Hispanics cost us the election!”
“Everyone under 40 cost us the election!”
This is typically followed by some sickeningly smug “I hope they enjoy what they get” from the most vile and repulsive insider slime the party has to offer. And now Dem Leadership is just throwing up its hands, insisting Trump’s just a dictator now and there’s nothing any of them can do.
Hell, the fucking CIA - the agency that exists to topple foreign governments - seems equally indolent and feckless. So, idk. Maybe saying “I told you so” isn’t impacting the cause one way or another.
Wow I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC, that does sound truly sickening.
Yes, because hopefully if we point out how much not voting has hurt us and everyone else, these dimwits will actually choose the lesser evil next time instead of letting the greater evil win
Oh yes, calling people dimwits will totally win them over.
We absolutely will not. Take that into account and stop thinking it’s a bluff you can call.
We absolutely will not
Better to let the greater evil win, eh? If some Palestinians are bound to die, better that American transes die too?
You need to update your rhetoric. The Democrats have already started talking about how they lost because of their support for trans rights and plan to move away from that. Your line in 2028 is, “If Palestinians and trans people are bound to die, we might as well let the Republicans win and go after bi people too, eh?” But maybe you should start practicing for 2032 and say, “Oh, so if Palestinians, trans people, and bi people are bound to die, we should let the Republicans win and go after lesbians too?”
Or, instead of walking down the list of “then they came for’s,” we could draw a red line and say that if they keep walking down that path, we will make it impossible for them to win. And if enough people do, then they will either have to give in or be replaced.
Edit: You posted two removed comments that nobody upvoted lol. Reminds me of that Bloomberg ad about random Twitter users saying mean things lol.
Sources for Democrats saying they lost because of their support for trans rights please?
Do you not think Biden was instrumental in setting this up?
Biden: doesn’t invade Gaza
Genocide Joe crowd after Trump cleanses Gaza: But did you think about how this is Joe Bidens fault?
It’s clear that Israel has major sway with the US. We were not gonna stop them no matter who was in charge. I think Joe did as much as he could without pissing off our corporate overlords but him ending the conflict was never gonna happen.
People would be blaming Biden for genocide even if he did not partake in the genocide
We haven’t invaded Gaza yet, and i don’t think we will just like i don’t think we’ll invade Canada or Greenland. Trump says a lot of dumb shit that will never happen. The only thing that has happened since trump took over is a ceasefire.
we were not gonna stop them no matter who was in charge. I think Joe did as much as he could
He could’ve at least tried by blocking arms shipments. Biden could’ve done that at any time since there’s already a law on the books that the u.s. must stop weapons shipments if there is credible evidence they will be used in war crimes. Biden and his state department refused to enforce this law and ignored multiple reports about war crimes to do so. One time they tried to do it on a specific squad in the Israeli military of ultra orthodox that was doing crimes in the west bank but gave in after bibi said it was anti-semetic.
Even if that wasn’t an option Biden could’ve vetoed the many arms packages that were passed after it was clear Israel was attempting a genocide, he didn’t. Even after he was effectively a lame duck after he dropped out and didn’t have to worry about the Israel lobby. Even after he was actually a lame duck and the dems already lost.
This wasn’t Biden being handcuffed by outside forces, he had multiple opportunities to stand against the genocide and refused to because he is an ardent zionist who is fine with the horrors in gaza.
Doesn’t matter about the ifs. People decried Biden for not stopping the conflict. Here’s trump saying he’ll do much, much worse. Where all the Genocide Joe’s at? Oh right, they never cared. Just needed something to sway people opinions away from Dems.
Also, you left out the critical part of my quote (which is just arguing in bad faith) Bidens does as much as he can without pissing off our corporate overlords. This is an oligarchy and has been for years. Money rules all. The war machine demands blood to convert into dollars.
where are all the genocide Joe’s at?
Here? It looks like the person who posted this is what you’d call a “genocide joe”. There are tons of people in this thread like me arguing that what he did is still horrible. Do you want us to say trump is worse? Yeah rhetorically, but objectively Biden presided over a year and a half of unmitigated horrors and trump has presided over a ceasefire.
Money rules all. The war machine demands blood to convert into dollars.
If this were true, Biden wouldn’t have pulled out of Afghanistan. He did though, despite huge backlash, which i commend him for, because he knew the war was an unjust waste of money. He didn’t do the same for Gaza because he is a staunch zionist. This also ignores his lame duck period where he wasn’t beholden to any corporate interests, and he still kept sending weapons to Israel, because he’s doing it out of principal not pressure.
Also it’s not like Afghanistan since there’s still another war going on. If Biden cared about the genocide he could make a deal with these oligarchs to compensate any loss in sales in gaza with more spending on Ukraine.
If this were true, Biden wouldn’t have pulled out of Afghanistan.
Leftists respect and remember this, especially given how the mainstream media went full warhawk on Biden for actually doing it. If only Biden had got his head out of his old racist ass and used his power to stop the Palestinian Genocide.
Biden presided over a year and a half of unmitigated horrors and trump has presided over a ceasefire
… That started under Biden. As far as US diplomats were involved, who do you think was in charge of directing them?
If we want to give the US president credit for a ceasefire, why would we give the credit to the one who any involvement happened before they were in office, to say nothing of the one who wasn’t even in office when it started?Yes bidens diplomats made the deal, along with Qatari and Egyptian mediators, but they were unable to get Israel to sign it. It was only after trump was elected and started talking to bibi as the president elect that the Israelis signed the same deal that they rejected 6 months ago.
They hadn’t achieved any significant accomplishment that would prompt them to say “we’re good now” and finally sign. The only thing that changed was the incoming administration.
I don’t know what trump said to bibi but whatever it was it changed his mind on a ceasefire. My guess is he just wanted a 6 week break so that he could roll out all the horrible shit he’s been doing in his first month without having to deal with Gaza. They probably went along with it because trump is more likely to follow through on stopping weapons shipments because he’s less committed to the zionist cause and political norms of unwavering “defensive” support for Israel.
Or maybe bibi was just tanking peace talks to drag down Biden and they were actually fine 6 months ago but wanted to help trump win first. Possibly with some collusion with the trump campaign but I doubt the dems will ever investigate that like they did russia because that would be anti-semetic.
In either case I don’t think bibi would’ve signed if Harris won. Either because he doesn’t respect her or he wants to drag down the democratic party.
It was Trump’s envoy that secured the ceasefire
What the fuck are we supposed to say? We spent a year and a half doing everything in our power to show the dems what they need to do to have a chance to win, they chose genocide instead.
And we (informed voters) spent a year and a half painting you a very detailed picture of what was going to happen if you didn’t suck it up and do what was necessary to keep a rapist traitor out of the White House. Hell… even HE spent a year and a half telling you exactly what he was going to do.
Remember Project 2025? Yeah… that is the actual name of what’s happening right now.
Sooo……
What the fuck are we supposed to say?
Start with: “I’m sorry” and work from there. Because anything short of this is unacceptable.
spent a year and a half painting you a very detailed picture of what was going to happen if you didn’t suck it up and do what was necessary to keep a rapist traitor out of the White House
Oh, far more than a year and a half.
Joe Biden to rich donors: “Nothing would fundamentally change” if he’s elected
Dems made it crystal clear that they were going to roll over to Republicans, whether nor not they won. Absolutely nothing in the last month has lent weight to the contrary.
To be honest, of all the posts I’ve seen of the shit Trump is pulling, all I’ve seen is comments complaining of the Democrats who didn’t vote. The actual story in the post…crickets. It’s unnerving when you want to actually see comments about the subject of the post and all the comments are “wwuuaahhh, you didn’t vote for Harris it’s all your fault” against people who aren’t even reading the goddamn posts. I’m sick of it!
Like…I hear you guys. I don’t fully agree but I hear you. But for fuck sakes, let it go, lets talk about the actual post instead of going on and on about the perceived injustice the Democrats have suffefed. Right or wrong, it’s done! Let it go!
Did you think that maybe it’s because we all already knew about all of this shit? So it’s not as important for us to spend time discussing it because…
WE ALREADY HAVE BEEN FOR THE PAST YEAR.
Yes, I know you know. You are all very smart and sofisticated. But by being stuck on your complaining you are preventing people from discussing what really matters. In my case I see a post about the latest Trump antic, I go in with a opinion to give and eager to see other people’s insights.
But it’s all “wuahhhaaa…it’s all their fault” and the actual shit that Trump pulled takes the back seat and is buried in your moping. So I’ve mostly given up on commenting on these posts even though I agree more with you than not. Trump himself couldn’t censor me more effectively.
Your priority is being right. And since the shit that Trump does makes it easier for you to feel right then that is all you want the world to know. How right you are and how wrong the others were. And they should say “sorry” for eternity so you can feel right forever, while Trumps rapes your butt because your ego is what matters.
I want to be angry with you. But ultimately I just find it sad and depressing.
Neat!
So wtf are you doing on here then? Your entire premise is so sad, months after one failed victory and you’re demanding random strangers say they’re “sorry” to you? Were you Kamala’s campaign manager or something? Because the vibes fit right in.
You spent a year telling people what to do, congrats. Do you think the progressive movement just started? Do you think this is the first set-back the world has succumbed to?
It’s kinda obvious that comments like yours reveal it’s just some sort of sports game to you. You spent one singular year talking progressively, so now it’s not as important to you but will post several comments saying how important it is for others on your team to bow down to your superiority… because you spent a singular year talking progressively… whoopdee fucking doo.
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You’ve also been whining and crying about third party voters for the past year, but you still find that important enough to go on about at every opportunity.
You mean prior to the election? when we all told you what would happen and instead of listening, you all played victim and reported everyone for being mean to you?
Yeah… if you want to call asking people to do the right thing “whining and crying,” sure.
Now I’m absolutely going to go on about it at every opportunity because I truly believe that you should never be let off the hook on this.
The only thing that would have kept Trump out of the whitehouse was for the democrats to stop facilitating genocide.
You blue MAGA are the ones who helped them maintain the delusion they could have both their genocide and win. You helped them maintain the delusion they could have won with Biden until 5 months before the election.
LMAO your moral stand is going to literally get people murdered.
How does that feel? I think it’d feel bad.
You don’t even need to take the moral stand to tell democrats to do the moral thing when the moral thing is also the only shot they had at winning.
Your stance is morally repugnant, but more importantly, ineffective. We told the democrats they would lose if they did genocide. You told the democrats they could win while doing genocide. Look at what happened.
Lmao, are you making a moral argument against acting according to morals?
The sad truth is that turning on Israel would have done more damage to the democrats electorally than it would’ve helped. Not saying it’s good, just sayings it’s true, and waving Gaza around as “the reason” Harris lost is kind of disingenuous and misses the bigger picture
Yes, the bigger picture is that as soon as Harris got the nomination, she ran back to the cold, dead embrace of the Biden campaign, and supported every single policy that made Biden so unpopular. No muslim spoke at the DNC, but they had cops, CPB, and republicans speaking for the party.
Her words when asked what the difference between a Biden and Harris admin would be was “Well I would appoint a republican to my cabinet”.
Yes, the bigger picture is that Harris was a bad candidate for a litany of reasons.
Harris could have been a great candidate. The flaw was that she promised more of the same. She would have trounced Trump if she became the candidate we all hoped she would be in the weeks after she announced and appointed Tim Walz VP.
This isn’t a messaging issue. Biden’s greatest flaw wasn’t that he was old, it was that he didn’t fight for the things people elected him to fight for, and instead compromised with republicans, ended covid protections, built more of Turmps wall, deported more immigrants, sent more weapons to Israel, and did fuckall to protect women’s rights.
Right up front, I voted for the ‘lesser evil’ in a swing state, so stow those comments about me enabling fascism.
The sad truth is that turning on Israel would have done more damage to the democrats electorally than it would’ve helped
I mean, you can keep saying that. But it’s not even true among Jewish voters, let alone the larger electorate.
I’m really starting to suspect these kind of comments are morality laundering after spending months backing an immoral stance held by a feckless executive who refused to see past his moral blind spot.
- The populace didn’t want the death and destruction.
- Career bureaucrats at the state department didn’t want it.
- Online commentators refused to seriously entertain criticism of Joe as anything but bad faith - so the message became “we’re okay with it” never “I don’t want this or Trump, do better Joe”
The sad truth is that turning on Israel would have done more damage to the democrats electorally than it would’ve helped.
“Our country just wants genocide too much” is quite the take.
I love this logic because it doesn’t even matter how bad the position is - we could be arguing against sending immigrants to gas chambers and you could still say “sorry, they can’t run against that because they’d lose more votes than they’d gain”. Nevermind the fact that they helped to create the political reality that they are now claiming to be helpless against. They spent the last 80 years making Israel into the centerpiece of middle eastern foreign policy and now they can’t speak out against an ongoing genocide because they might lose their control and influence in the region.
Even better - some of the same people saying ‘gaza isn’t the reason we lost’ are also saying ‘we lost because we’re too woke’ - it shows just how much contempt the democrats have for their base that they dismiss the problem being with their genocidal foreign policy and instead blame their loss on being too friendly toward minorities.
bLuE mAgA!
It’s good to see you leaning into what your entitlement has won for you. Glad you can own it so transparently.
People are going to suffer but at least it’s not the democrats brand of genocide, right?
God imagine if there was a Blue MAGA, a cult that was just as die-hard about protecting transpeople, labor rights, and all that as Red MAGA was with destroying them.
I cannot imagine a cult stronger than one supporting genocide.
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There is, they’re called leftists and they’ve been systemically expelled from the Democrat party.
You learned nothing in 2016, you learned nothing in 2020, and you learned nothing in 2024. Can’t wait to see you insisting that the democrats can win while running on compromise, building the wall, deporting every immigrant, getting tough on crime, banning trans people from public life, and continuing whatever war Trump starts in 2028.
That still doesn’t sound like “I’m sorry.”
And that’s all you care about, the personal insult to you
🤡
Its difficult because the dems 100% were enabling genocide. But, crazy enough, there’s bad and worse genocide.
People who protest vote think they’re “showing the dems” when they don’t vote. Maybe the dems lose now but they learn a painful lesson and change in the future.
But here’s the thing. The dems would rather lose to republicans than change. They will eat your protest vote. And they will accept they lost power for 4 years. And then they get re-elected and go back to what they were doing before. Being greedy and taking money from lobbyist as much as possible, including AIPAC, but not outright malicious. They never change because people only vote centrist dem or further right.
And them dems suck. They’re bad. But Republicans? They’re worse. They aren’t doing genocide just for the profits. They’re also doing it for the fun of it. The dems will show some restraint to avoid war with Iran. The Republicans won’t.
So the protest vote won’t show the dems shit. It will just unleash unapologetic genocide instead of milquetoast genocide. And while they’re at it, the republicans will tank the economy and fuck up the lives of every minority they can manage.
They never change because people only vote centrist dem or further right.
Except no they don’t, every time the dems run to the center, they get beat the fuck out. The only reason rightwing and centrist dems do well in primaries is because the billionaires and the party elite will do anything to keep it that way. There’s a reason Bloomberg dropped out the moment Bernie was no longer a threat.
Left policy is overwhelmingly popular with the people because it helps the people instead of the capitalists. It becomes even more popular when it’s implemented, hence why even rightwing parties in countries with universal healthcare never run on switching to the american system.
The dems didn’t lose due to protest votes, they lost because they ran to the right and nobody came out to vote because rightwing policies are unpopular. Which is what I have been saying would happen since 2020 if Biden doesn’t fight for us. Shit, when I was phonebanking for Biden in 2020, when I got young potential voters who were already activated, I didn’t have the heart to tell them that none of the issues they associated with the dems, emptying the cages full of migrants, regular checks for people who couldn’t work during covid, free healthcare, free college, weren’t part of Biden’s platform.
The dems would rather lose to republicans than change. They will eat your protest vote.
Fine, watch as we dismantle and destroy the DNC and build a structure in its place that responds to and respects the voices of its members, especially the vulnerable and oppressed.
We aren’t fucking around and no amount of money or corporate media spin is going to stop us.
Your move DNC
Work within the constraints of the first past the post voting system you have while working toward ranked choice or something more functional.
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You spent a year criticising your own side and supporting a “both sides” narrative. You can’t now pretend that you were trying to help the dems get elected.
There are literally commenters all over this thread (about Trumps intention to invade gaza), who believe Trump will produce a better outcome for Palestinians.
It is extremely telling that you consider criticising your own side to be incompatible to wanting that side to win.
Joe offered me Vanilla Ice Cream, but I prefer Strawberry, so to spite Joe I took Donald’s offer to let him piss in my mouth…
You were warned what Trump wanted to do, and now he’s turning Palestine into a Trump Resort
Joe offered me Vanilla Ice Cream, but I prefer Strawberry,
This is literally what centrists think about people who are upset about their genocide.
Your daily reminder that BlueMAGA don’t care about genocide
(sheer insanity has just been described in detail)
BBC Presenter (nods thoughtfully, shifts some papers)
“Alright, thanks. That was Charles Manson there, live from Narnia.”BBC Presenter (split-second later, brightly)
“And now an endangered frog species sees a new life on Mars! Our nature correspondent Jethro Tull with the latest…”So the last and final attempt to steer the United States from fuelling genocide failed.
The one moment in history America has actually stopped a genocide solely because it was a genocide was in Bosnia, and we still bombed hospitals to do it.
China really needs to start throwing their weight around on the global stage if they want to be anything more than a regional power.
China should be filling the vacuum on the global stage that the US is vacating.
China already is extending their hand to places affected by USAID being shut down, I believe.
Everyone had this prediction that China would become the world’s number one superpower at some point, but I don’t know if people predicted that was because the U.S. shot itself it the face.
Maybe after the Chinese authorian regime is done with the cleansing of the uyghurs, they take the place of the US and help Israel with the cleansing of Palestine
You think the Europeans are going to do anything about it? Think again.
If the American President wants to take Gaza by force and turn it into a Mediterranean Vegas, he’s going to do it with very little pushback.
Don’t act so surprised. We all knew elections have consequences, right? This (among other things) is the obvious and predictable outcome of allowing Trump to win the election.
This was happening under the Democrats as well
They did their job: telling you about news that just occurred at that moment. For the analysis they will need some time. Which is absolutely right.
If you expected them to be surprised then you clearly haven’t been paying attention to Trump’s statements before now.
What should the BBC have done?
Factually state the implications of what Trump is saying, forcefully?
They don’t have to turn into a Fox opinion segment, they can just explain reality instead of blowing past it, then turning to talking heads.
It’s not really a news agency’s place to start guessing or claiming on what this might mean. They could report on people making that claim they, as they have done
The UN Secretary General’s spokesperson Stephane Dujarric has just previewed remarks that we are expecting this afternoon from Antonio Guterres, in response to President Donald Trump’s shocking plan for the US to take over Gaza.
On Gaza, Guterres will say that it is “vital to stay true to the bedrock of international law” and “essential to avoid any form of ethnic cleansing”.
Since Trump made his controversial Gaza remarks yesterday, some Democrats have taken to social media to condemn his comments.
Many have accused the Republican president of “promoting ethnic cleaning” for saying Palestinians should leave Gaza and settle elsewhere.
“It is horrific,” Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told reporters, adding: “It is part of the culmination of what I view to be genocide of the Palestinian people.”
Use the term “Ethnic Cleansing” because that is literally the term which describes Trumps plan…
I don’t think it’s a new agency’s job to make such claims, but they have reported on people calling it that
The UN Secretary General’s spokesperson Stephane Dujarric has just previewed remarks that we are expecting this afternoon from Antonio Guterres, in response to President Donald Trump’s shocking plan for the US to take over Gaza.
On Gaza, Guterres will say that it is “vital to stay true to the bedrock of international law” and “essential to avoid any form of ethnic cleansing”.
Since Trump made his controversial Gaza remarks yesterday, some Democrats have taken to social media to condemn his comments.
Many have accused the Republican president of “promoting ethnic cleaning” for saying Palestinians should leave Gaza and settle elsewhere.
“It is horrific,” Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told reporters, adding: “It is part of the culmination of what I view to be genocide of the Palestinian people.”
Watch: ‘Definition of ethnic cleansing’, Ocasio-Cortez says on Trump’s Gaza plan
Can’t say I see anything wrong with BBC’s actions here tbh.
he only said this to distract from what Elmo is doing right now… the classified computers he’s taken over…
the fact that they’ve already begun reprogramming the treasury computer system, meaning they must have had illegal access to plan that well before trump was sworn in….
i don’t think trump will ever get the authority to occupy gaza and “relocate” all of them…What fucking world are you living on dude?
I’m not question that Elon is doing that. I mean why do you think genocide is the distraction and not the main thing lol.
I think the truth is they don’t need a distraction and they know it. As much as I hate it the American people aren’t gonna do shit. No matter how in our face it is
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You’re right of course. There is nothing special about Palestinians, they are an ethnic group just like all the others.
