Like, why is it so widespread, what causes it, what solutions are available, etc. I don’t really know how to ask this question so I hope I’m making sense

  • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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    6 months ago

    Culture of excessive individuality and independence plus macho culture

    Lack of intergenerational teaching and connections to help kids mature when growing up

    • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Macho culture existed long before the loneliness. It’s a different kind of macho culture now that is detrimental.

      Previous generations had less destructive outlets for machismo than boys of today. Being part of a sports team meant that you had an outlet and a group that you shared common goals with.

  • RBWells@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I do think the loneliness epidemic affects men more than women, and would argue it’s sexism harming men. On average, women are more likely to reach out, talk to people and family will check in on them if they are alone. Like, my husband (who is more outgoing than me and better at keeping up with friends) will call his mom or go up to see her, but leaves his dad alone unless he literally asks for something. Because men are taught it’s shameful to not be self sufficient, but women are taught to look for help if we need it.

    Obviously this is not a straight gender split but on average it still plays out that way.

  • dukeofdummies@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I don’t even think it’s an exclusively male thing. It’s just getting harder and harder to meet people and mingle. Men are just feeling it harder and sooner.

    It’s harder to meet people now. I think part of it is:

    1. That people used to be bored. You would make entertainment where you could find it, and two bored people can rapidly get entertained. Now you have a phone that makes you not bored, and de-incentivizes face to face interaction.

    2. There used to be more places where people interacted. Masons, elk lodge, unions, they would often serve alcohol at events, for dirt cheap. They were known as third places, somewhere other than work and home. One thing I hear from a lot of smokers is that the smoking areas are where people hang out to talk, and they do. It’s where conversations happen at a club. It gives you something to do when you’re not talking, a reason to stand somewhere close to people, and a perfect excuse to jump into a conversation. It’s kinda infuriating that it also shaves two minutes off your life -_-.

    3. People have less time. Younger generations are working multiple jobs, gigs with unpredictable hours, often times having commutes of an hour which turns a 9 to 5 into an 8 to 6, and spending all their vacation hours on the shit that has to be done on a weekday like the DMV or the like. How are you supposed to make a friend when schedules differ so much that a spreadsheet is required to make it work?

    • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      IDK; my partner has met ppl that have become very close friends at their workplace. I’ve become more and more isolated as I’ve worked as an adult, to the point where I have zero close friends.

      I hope to fix that this year though; I’ll be trying to get my handgun and rifle instructor cert so I can work with the Pink Pistols and Operation Blazing Sword, and connect with my local SRA chapter. E.g., try to do something good in my community, and also meet people.

  • jeffw@lemmy.worldM
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    6 months ago

    Toxic gender norms hurt everyone.

    I think this is exacerbated by certain people online who want to capitalize on the issue and scapegoat others (see the manosphere and how they talk about feminism) instead of actually addressing the problem

    Edit: a little plug for https://lemmy.ca/c/mensliberation

    • lordnikon@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Could not agree more feminism is just human rights by another name and human rights is not achieved by anyone till every gender , race , sexual orientation, religion or lack of, ability or disability are equal.

  • CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net
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    6 months ago

    The atomization of society. The process of a society breaking down into smaller, isolated units, where individuals are self-interested and self-sufficient. It can lead to a feeling of being alone even when surrounded by people.

    • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      I was thinking about it this morning.

      Look at Beatle-mania or Spice Girl-mania.

      Back in the day, 100 million people were aware of one big thing and it brought them together.

      Today with the internet, you’ve got a million different ‘big things’ each with 100 fans.

      • kshade@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        We still have mass phenomenons and bringing 100 people together is plenty. What’s probably missing is local community.

        • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          Serious question.

          What’s the last thing in entertainment that you think was known to everyone in the USA? I’m not talking about Taylor Swift dating a football player. I mean a brand new act coming out and all kinds of people excited.

          I can’t think of anything.

  • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 months ago

    if men display feelings, they’re seen as bitches by men, and weak by women (exceptions exist, but generally speaking).

    basically, a piece of toxic masculinity….
    men are only allowed to display emotions of anger or mild happiness.
    i think this is a big reason why sports are so popular… it’s more about camaraderie than anything else.
    also why they like to get drunk and say “i love you man” and all that mushy stuff.

    in a nutshell: because they’re taught to be that way.

  • 𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Male loneliness is likely partially due to the same reason we are all here; this online outlet for social endorphins is why you were not building up a deficit over the last week and felt the motivation to finally call that person you were thinking about this whole time. That person was a passing thought, and the endorphins hit you might have received is ultimately less than you got from the austere but consistent dose you get from social engagement online.

    The only problem is that you are not creating a meaningful personal social network in real life. When you really need such a network in practice, you face the reality of no one to turn to, or less depth and meaning to such connections. Real people are also complex and you must face the reality that no one fits your echo chamber bubble like a place like this. If you act like a down vote or stupid hot take comes across here to people in the real world… you find yourself back here with less options in the future.

      • 𞋴𝛂𝛋𝛆@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Don’t get disabled and have a place like this as your only outlet to connect with other humans. Anonymous and mob like negativity, especially from misunderstandings, can be hurtful when sharing some part of yourself or the only time you’ve said anything to anyone in a day or more from within a prison of loneliness you cannot escape.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        Ah, I guess I’ll need to tell my teenage friend who never made it to adulthood after feeling trapped and ruined when an older man started an online relationship that isolated her from her family to… fucking grow a pair or something?

        Healthy mature people can exist online in a positive manner. Not everyone is an adult and not every adult is mature. The internet can be a dangerous place and it’s unhelpful to try and dismiss that.

  • BmeBenji@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    Traditional masculinity dictates that men don’t share their feelings (with the exception of anger and aggression because that’s not a feeling that’s just being manly). Sadness, despair, loneliness, depression all will be commonly bottled up and left untreated which leads to deep-seated feelings of isolation. The cure has to be a change in social norms, including decoupling the ideas of being socially vulnerable with being feminine.

    This is a gross generalization of the issue but it definitely describes my experience with it.

  • SparrowHawk@feddit.it
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    6 months ago

    Patriarchy harms and isolates men first so that they become the monsters that women fear.

    The same way women are expected to look and act a certain way, so is for men, with different criteria.

    Not by people per se, but by a sort of cultural subconscious, like a chaos creature from warhammer it exists because people believe in it, not necessarily because they agree with it. Everyone fears it, so most comply.

    That’s why it is so important to destroy the social gender binary, the idea that we all neatly fit in well defined labels that apply to our body and mind. It’s just complete bullshit and internalizing it is one of the many ways this system traps us in its oppression

    • essell@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Absolutely agree.

      One of the ways we’ve gone wrong so far is that people do need some guidance at least on what is possible and acceptable.

      Just saying to young people “Be whatever you want to be” is unhelpful and confusing.

      Role models of all kinds and representation matter so people who are figuring these things out as they grow have inspiration, ideas, can see who they are reflected in the world around them so they can put a name to the feeling.

      If we can do that without shaming, blaming or excluding then people can find their way without the need of gender binary.

      Caveat, not everyone is a suitable role model. Some people are warnings, not examples.

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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      6 months ago

      Never don’t downvote posts with the word “patriarchy” in them. The right says “DEI hire” the left says “Patriarchy.”

      • SparrowHawk@feddit.it
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        6 months ago

        Except if you did just the slightest bit of research you’d know patriarchy is an anthropological and well defined phenomenon not based on prejudice but on research of oppression throughout millennia, while the other is just an excuse to be intolerant.

        This kind of false equivalences really show people’s disinterest in going deeper with their judgment. There’s nothing comparable about the two other than widespread use

  • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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    6 months ago

    Here’s a theory. I’m sure it has lots of holes in it.

    Male loneliness has always been a thing. In cultures where it isn’t/wasn’t, there was a strong family relationship and older men modelling how to relate to others.

    To hide from loneliness, men were able to join clubs, hang out at pubs, volunteer, or bury themselves in work.

    In fact, those same pastimes are still available today.

    What’s changed is that it is now socially OK to talk about loneliness (at least in online forums like this), so more people are aware it’s an issue.

  • untorquer@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Gender division and masculinity is trained into us from the second our genitals are identified be it sonogram or at birth. From the colors, toys, media, to early childhood social pressures were pushed into one of two molds. If a boy interacts with a girl it’s labelled as boyfriend girlfriend even if there’s no romantic intent (because why would children have that?). But the point is that masculinity [and femininity] is programmed throughout the core development of the brain. Unless there’s a motivation to question it that developed neuron architecture only gets reinforced. By the time you’re able to question it you’re so set in the concrete it takes years or decades of struggle to unlearn the worst traits. When you unlearn them it’s a threat to people who haven’t had to question it.

    When you’re emotionally isolated from yourself, and surrounded by others who are also emotionally isolated, you’re not motivated to be around them since they won’t fulfill your needs. Then, you realize you’re also not comfortable enough to bridge the divide to people who are in touch with their own emotions. So all this hard work and you’re only a few steps down the path to connection. Usually with little sense of where to go from there.

    When you finally get to the point of diving in and expressing emotionally outward, it’s easy to get wrapped with anxiety. You expect others to push you away, not because they will, most people respond well, but because you’re even less oriented and more vulnerable than ever. Though i would argue less fragile.

    Lots of other posts discussing things like whether other people in the age group are socially available, and lack of third spaces.

    • nifty@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      But the point is that masculinity [and femininity] is programmed throughout the core development of the brain. Unless there’s a motivation to question it that developed neuron architecture only gets reinforced. By the time you’re able to question it you’re so set in the concrete it takes years or decades of struggle to unlearn the worst traits. When you unlearn them it’s a threat to people who haven’t had to question it.

      Except for children with autism, I’d say. My mom couldn’t get me to be girly or feminine while I was growing up, I just did what made sense, sometimes that was a girly or feminine thing and other times not.

      Maybe the patriarchy is an allistic people problem lol.

  • LouNeko@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    It always felt like between the ages of 12 - 18 (basically while you were in middle-/highschool) you need to get some sort of “seal of approval” from the other sex as a prove that you are relationship material. If you didn’t get that you’ll always be seen as somebody to stay away from.

    I’ve heard a lot of times that those young relationships are completely inconsequential, but I think it’s those lack of consequences that serve best as a social teaching tool on how to recognize and have an actual meaningful relationship when you’re older.

    And I feel like this experience is exactly what a lot of men and women are struggling to get. They have trouble finding partners and if they do they are not good partners themselves. Which is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, you are deemed bad relationship material so you’ll become bad relationship material.

    I recognized this about myself. At my age the only people left are either young divorcees, people with small children or people that are like me - single for a good reason. There will be expectations towards me that I’m neither aware of nor will probably be able to fulfill. Dating well below my age range is neither something I can pull off nor something that I am comfortable with. So I’m forever stuck in this weird limbo of wanting a relationship but knowing that whoever will be my first partner will probably not have a great time with me.

    I think this is also the root of a lot of toxic behavior. People turn to sources of knowledge to at least get some idea about what an relationship is about. But all they find is the Cosmopolitans and the Andrew Tate’s who prey upon peoples’ loneliness and desperation for profit. I understand that nobody wants to be a teacher, I understand that nobody wants to throw away years of their life so that the next person will maybe have a better time with your partner.

    Ali Wong had a good joke about this in her special with something along the lines off not wanting a divorce because then she’d have to teach the next guy how to please her. Taylor Tomilison also had one about wanting to call her ex during sex just so he could explain to the next guy how he did it for her. I know those are just jokes, but it think there is a bit of truth in them.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I’m just autistic\BAD and indecisive and had a romantic trauma at school and my environment (mom) is not mentally well at all (right now it’s not worse than hoarding and forgetting everything, but it was).

      However, with my looks it’s somehow enough for me to just be kinda clean and shaved and in a public place for very pleasant young women (and I suppose much kinder than that girl from school) to try to talk to me with possible romantic perspective (which I usually realize after the conversation ends).

      Except it just doesn’t work, either I don’t understand them, or I’m petrified and don’t know what to do or say, or I postpone interpreting the conversation to somewhere late, or I’m ashamed of the mess where I live and showing my life to that person if it goes somewhere.

      So - sometimes it’s just about never having the courage to go forward. Not about other people discarding you.

      EDIT: ah, also about BAD - in the mania phase one might slowly build up background dreams about some women one knows, and when trying to make a decision in regards to the woman they are really communicating with, to feel ashamed both before everyone touched by those dreams and before that woman ; I guess some people are fine with that, some even have open relationships, but this is not a common thing.

      • LouNeko@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        I know the feeling too well of not having a place to invite somebody to. But I always told myself that if it ever came down to it, I hopefully could convince the two halfbrained adults that call themselves my parents to behave for a few hours. But in the end it didn’t really matter because it never came down to it anyway.

        A long while ago there was a post by a distressed young woman who struggled to enter relationships. I really connected with what she said but of course had no answer for her either. But what I’ve noticed is that all comments completely missed the point of the question.

        I used a casino as a metaphor for dating which I think applies pretty well. Dating is essentialy that - no matter how much effort you put in, nothing is ever guaranteed or given, it all essentially comes down to luck.

        What the vast majority of people hear when somebody is asking for dating advice is that they play the game but lack any success. They then give you advice on how to play your cards right, how to increase your chances, how to cut you losses, etc. But they don’t understand it’s not about how to win the table, but how to get into the casino in the first place. Not what to I tell the dealer at the table, but what do I tell the bouncer at the door?

        It’s not about the rejection I’m facing, its about the fact that my mere approach is seen as an insult. It’s the audacity to ask to be included in something that is considered a normal part of life for others.

        There’s a disorder, I forgot what it’s called but it makes people feel especially uneasy around psychopaths, even if the psychopaths themselves are extremely good at hiding their psychopathy. Basically those people can pick up on queues nobody else, not even the psychopaths themselves are aware of. This is essential how I and many others feel, like there’s something about us that we are unaware of but everybody else picks up on that tells them to keep their distance. Something that is outside of our control. We could have every trait that would make anybody other than us attractive, yet we would still end up being alone because at some point nature pointed her finger at us at said “Yes, but not you”.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          It’s not about the rejection I’m facing, its about the fact that my mere approach is seen as an insult. It’s the audacity to ask to be included in something that is considered a normal part of life for others.

          Perhaps you are approaching wrong people.

          There’s one rule I’ve learned (but haven’t internalized, still a virgin and all that) from my aunts and just today had it reinforced by my therapist.

          Do what you want. If you really like a girl you are talking to, offer her to do something. Start small, no “let’s have a date”, just offer something interesting to you that may be interesting to her. To have tea in some pleasant place. To walk in a park. Be honest, if she asks if it’s romantic. Apologize if she dislikes it. Might even be honest that you don’t know anything about relationships. I mean, what do you fear more, shame from saying it or to remain lonely till grave? And that conversation doesn’t define all your further life (most likely).

          At least that’s my plan the next time somebody tries to talk to me with a smile. Mostly happens at summer, so there’s time to find all fossilized sandwiches behind furniture and repair all broken closet doors. In theory, in fact some of these are broken for many years.

          like there’s something about us that we are unaware of but everybody else picks up on that tells them to keep their distance

          Are you sure you don’t have ASD?..

          On the other side - I have ASD and, surprisingly, ASD is not the main thing preventing me.

          I have found one funny thing - when I cut explicit materials a bit, say, less pr0n and such, and cut stimulants (sugar, caffeine) and eat more meat and dairy, people seem to like me more. But this is not a firm law.

          It would make sense, though, that when you are healthier and have fewer outlets for certain kinds of energy, you are physically more attractive in ways hard to notice.

    • optissima@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      At my age the only people left are either young divorcees, people with small children or people that are like me - single for a good reason.

      How old are you?

    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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      6 months ago

      I understand that nobody wants to be a teacher,

      Well actually that’s not true. There’s a lot of people who are willing to put up with younger people/inexperienced people, but these people have difficulty too because of … reasons.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    For decades it has been ingrained in men that they are to be held to a very specific standard. Men don’t cry, men are strong, men have to take care of everyone else, stop your whining, I’ll give you something to cry about, be the alpha male, that’s “gay”, strength, weakness, and so on.

    My father, and grandfather, both grew up with a code of silence. Feelings weren’t talked about, but relayed through their wives; except anger. That was given directly through corporal punishment (hand or belt).

    I was always “emotional” growing up. I cried “like a baby” over “nothing”. No one ever came to check on me, or console me, during any of my “fits”. In fact, there were times I was ridiculed for it (sometimes by family members).

    When I was 19 my grandmother died. I was really close with her; she was the only one who ever came to my aid and defended me. It tore me up so bad I could barely talk without breaking down. I was told multiple times that I shouldn’t be so upset, and that I was overreacting (by my family). Everything came to a head when all at once my cousins, aunts, uncles, and even brother yelled at me because I was being selfish and unreasonable, and insensitive to my grandfather because “he just lost his wife”.

    Oh, and apologies are for “pussies”.

    Anyway, it’s not really about me. I wanted to paint a picture for you as to why I’m lonely. Do with that what you will.