i am not ordering cars from them anymore /s
yeah me too. I was like, about to and stuff.
Well then, I’m going to order twice as many cars from them next year as I did last year.
Thank god you put the /s there.
Plenty of brands stopped offering manual variants of plenty of models. IIRC BMW practically begged people to stop asking for manual variants, saying it just does not make any sense to mess with the supply chain and the production line and the car itself just to put an objectively inferior transmission inside it.
The M series cars still have manual as an option, although IIRC the automatic versions have better performance. They’re a bit outside of my price range, so I’m trying to keep my old manual 328i running as long as I can.
They also offer it on the Z4 with the Handschalter package. Pretty sure this will be the last year of the Z4 tho.
I got my license in the early 80’s, and at that time the cheapest cars were older american beaters with utterly terrible 2 and 3-speed slushbox automatics. The alternative were Japanese cars like Honda Civics, small, reliable, manual transmission cars that got great gas mileage and were way more fun to drive. All these years later I’m still driving a manual, currently a 2021 Toyota Corolla. It’s paid for, it gets around 35 mpg, and with regular maintenance it will run until the end of time.
I know American cars have improved a lot since the malaise era but you generally can’t get them with manual transmissions, so I’ll stick with the imports for now.
I started driving around the same time as you. I remember how common real VW beetles were and I don’t think any of them ever had automatic transmission - if they did I never saw one. I spent a summer driving one with no starter and a broken reverse gear, which meant I had to be very careful about where I parked it. Today’s kids will never know the fun that came from that situation.
80’s
'80s
What Ferrari and Lamborghini does doesn’t concern me but I’ll keep buying cars with manual transmission for as long I can get one. I wouldn’t buy a new car anyway so that alone gives me atleast 10 extra years. I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either. Why? Mostly because of a principle.
What is the principle for manual cars?
They prefer fondling long shafts.
Same
More fun to drive. Id still have a stick shift if we hadn’t decided to switch to EVs.
I’m sure there’ll be a DLC that will emulate that feeling eventually.
Looks like Toyota is on it. I also saw a guy who basically created a fidget shifter but am too lazy for more than one link right now.
I don’t mind driving a manual. Every car I’ve owned has had a manual transmission so automatic would be a solution to a problem that I don’t have. I like driving and I don’t want the car to do the driving for me.
I have not had a manual in many years, but I will say I would prefer to have one because, whether or not it’s actually true, I felt like I was in more control of the car and, because of that, felt safer. The peace of mind was nice.
I still refuse to buy smartphones without a headphone jack either.
I’m running out of options and I may have to consider a jackless phone next. What are the options?
Sony. Even their flagship phones have headphone jack afaik.
Which unfortunately, isn’t available in my country.
I went with Samsung XCover 6 Pro. Not only has it a headphone jack but a removable battery as well.
But the performance is terrible for the price. The only jack phone I would reccomend is poco f5.
I don’t play games with my phone. The performance is more than good enough for my use. And it has a removable battery just like the ones I had before
The initial performance is always decent. The problem is the planned obsolessence. To compare two 2017 phones: my mom’s Huawei p10 and my Redmi 4X, for example. The p10’s geekbench score is ~2* the Redmi’s and it’s visible even in simple use. Web browsing works fine on the p10, but on the Redmi, it takes way longer to render a page slightly heavier, than wikipedia. OSMand works on the p10 perfectly, but on the Redmi, it takes very long to calculate routes and crashes often. If you want to use a phone for ~10 years, it’s usually better to invest in a performant one.
I’ll choose better features over performance any day but thanks
Just bought a car with a manual transmission and I love it. Someone mentioned in this thread that they didn’t want the car to do the driving for them and I couldn’t agree more. Having control over the acceleration makes such a difference.
Yeah. You can’t buy a ford or chevy pickup in the united states with a manual transmission anymore.
I know they’re not supercars, or anything like that.
Big trucking companies are all going to automatic transmissions in their trucks as well.
I’m a school bus driver - buses with manual transmissions are long gone. The drug use and child molestation filters weed out enough potential drivers as it is.
Honestly DCTs make up for it, especially when your customer base is mostly people who don’t know how to drive anyway.
Using a manual is easy, but using it to go fast can actually be pretty hard. You have to time everything right, compensate for a bunch of conditions, coax the shifter because its using synchros, feather the clutch accordingly, heel-toe downshift correctly, etc. It’s extremely rewarding and useful if you actually want to have complete control over your car, but I doubt your average rich guy is gonna want to put that much effort into driving.
Manual shifting a modern Lambo would just be such a chore with how fast the RPM changes too (plus the loss of power from clutch would be even more noticeable). Current high end manuals just choose to stay with 6 gears so the gap stays comfortable, but you obviously lose some efficiency.
DCTs will do that all for you, the only thing you lose is a mechanical shifter (which if you’re into manuals you very much miss lol) and the ability to do some clutch tricks (ie loss of some mechanical controls because its automatic).
Now putting a regular old torque converting automatic transmission into a sports car is a waste (and has many examples of such). They are very slow because they aren’t deigned to rapidly change gears like you can in a manual. Even a CVT would be better from a practicality standpoint.
Formula 1 switched to semi-automatic in the 1980s. The technology has only improved over the last 40 years. If fast is what you want, driving a manual is insanity.
Formula 1 switched to semi-automatic in the 1980s.
Seeing how well it worked for VW in 1973 I’m glad someone tested it on the track.
High-end has all been sequential for like a decade
Most super-cars are not a sequential. A sequential is usually the type of transmission you find in motorcycles. Most flappy paddle transmissions found in sports cars are either a dual clutch automatic or an automated manual.
Ok that’s the kind I meant, I’d say I’m right of the curve on car knowledge but I don’t like design gearboxes for Ferrari or anything. Genuinely appreciate the correction.
They shift sequentially though via the paddles on the wheel.
GMA T50 begs to differ.
And recently also top end midrangers for some reason.
I know autos are faster these days but manuals are so much more fun and always will be. It really sucks that they’re going away :(
They’re all fun and games until you’re in stop go traffic. I agree though I miss driving a manual. Also they were easier to work on and tended to be cheaper to fix. That might not be the case anymore considering you’re pretty much guaranteed to to have to special order parts.
Stop and go traffic with a manual after working out legs is something special
I actually found stop and go traffic jams with a manual easier. All i needed was the clutch and id use it to drive the average speed of the stop and go traffuc jam, even if it was 0.5km/h. Cant do that on my automatic, it will speed up to a set amount of km if i release the break and press the gas even a little.
Edit: i will admit i have big feet and driving is more foot work for me than it is leg work. My legs barely move while driving, not even to go from gas to break, so it might be easier for me, idk
I guess it depends on the car, but most modern cars it’s NBD to drive manual in stop-and-go traffic. There are a handful of models that can make it a pain (e.g. Challenger, Nissan Z), but Honda and Mazda and many others are easy peasy even in dense traffic.
And propulsion, way funner even if it’s worse.
I would disagree if we were talking about regular cars, but these hypercars should’ve manual transmissions still since they are an experience and I would think people, specially those in europe, actually take them to a track.
So you need to download a pdf?
It’s taken me a while, but I’m okay with automatic transmissions on cars now. OTOH, you can have the manual transmission on my motorcycle when you pry that clutch lever from my cold, dead hands. (I have a speed shifter on my motorcycle now, and I barely ever use it.)
I didn’t know what a dual clutch transmission was and found this excellent video while searching. Figured I would share it here. Pretty awesome! You get the direct gearing benifits of a manual with the shifting ease and speed of an automatic.
I once had a Veloster with a dry plate dual clutch. Identical in design to a standard manual, just with a different clutch system and input shafts design, and computery bits controlling it.
If you drove it the way you drive a stick, it would last a long time.
Got almost 175,000 miles on it before it had any problems. At that mileage, the car was well and truly worn out, so not worth fixing, but I would have fixed the problem (failed 2nd clutch motor, common issue on the KIA/Hyundai DCT) if the car wasn’t all worn out.
My friend has a Veloster with the DCT. My favorite feature is that the car has hill hold, but it still rolls back like a manual transmission half the time.
Also the DCT gets confused pretty easily. At least once in a 15 minute drive I’ll have it fail to shift properly and the whole car jitters. Or it just picks the wrong gear then immediately has to shift again.
The first part, yeah, if you’re on a shallow incline it doesn’t hill hold. But you also should never hill hold with the clutch anyway, so keep that foot on the brake until its time to go. Worst case, you left foot brake to get it to preload and then immediately let off the brake. But I never really needed to do that.
The second part could be an early warning sign of the second clutch motor failure. I remember it only started going a gear too low not too long before it went completely, if I had it on auto shift. I ran it in manual mode almost all the time, though.
It’s been stupid like that for 7 years now. I think the transmission is just stupid.
Because nobody wants them. Or rather not enough people want them. Hell, kids these days don’t even want to get their drivers licenses. For them Uber is good enough.
Ok, so they’re performance focused. Who is making cars that are built for the most engaging driving experience? Are those “drive a slow car fast” type cars all already built?
Mazda.
I want my next car to be a Miata.
Porsche continues to sell manuals, but alas did do away with it on the upcoming Carrera 992.2 and gts. They have a 40% overall manual sales per this: https://www.motor1.com/news/705017/manual-transmission-sales-2023/
Bmw and others do have high individual model manual take rates (bmw m2/ct5 blackwing e.g. at 60/50% respectively.)
But they’ll always be the less performance option, though more “engagement”.
There is definitely a market for cars that take a loss in performance to give a boost in engagement.
I love my GR86, it’s a fantastic car! It’s the only car I’ve ever enjoyed as much as my wife’s Miata, and I fit more comfortably into it too.
Caterham
I made the mistake of buying an automatic once and i still regret it to this day because I’m still stuck with it.
Manuals only for me since thenI don’t give a shit that autos are faster, i don’t give a shit if they’re more efficient. Manuals are simply more satisfying and enjoyable—and that’s what driving is about.
I bought a automatic bmw for the first time and was like: wow this is great. Being in traffic is way more relaxing and so on. I thought to myself: wow my last car was the last manual car i ever owned. Now i went back to manual and i couldn’t be happier. A lot of people tell me that aktually automatic is so much faster and you can’t shift as fast and so on. Yeah. I know. But i’m not racing anyone. I just drive on the weekends with a car that i lke.
I wish it were easier to find a manual here. Most people in the States couldn’t drive them if their lives depended on it, so if they’re manufactured at all it’s in very small quantities.
I’ve been driving used BMW Z3s for the last 15+ years. These days they’re way cheaper than even the crappiest normal used cars because nobody can drive a stick any more and nobody wants to have a two-seater as their daily driver. They cost less than a new bicycle (although that’s because modern bicycles have absolutely insane price tags attached to them).
Yeah, but any used BMW is ridiculously expensive to repair. I had a '95 540i for a few years, and while it was fantastic to drive, even very small things cost tons to fix. Like, the windshield wiper motor transmission failed, and the repair was nearly $500 for just the part, and that was from a junkyard.
any used BMW is ridiculously expensive to repair
I mean that’s true, but to be fair they’re pretty reliable and things don’t go wrong on them all that often. The net cost of ownership is still a lot less than any modern new car - and roadsters are a lot of fun for the price.
I dunno. Depends on how old it is. My car had about 180,000 on the odometer–100,000 on the engine, since the engine was subject to a recall–and it was having a lot of weird issues. None of them were engine issues, but they really added up. When the clutch failed completely–probably a clutch master cylinder, given that the pedal went right to the floor–I threw in the towel, since it was going to cost more to repair than the car was worth.
On the other hand, I still see early/mid 80s 3-series cars on the roads.
I am with you here. I have a 2003 BMW Z4, not as expensive as people expect it to be, fun to drive and have had very few problems with it. 114k miles on it.
Though I have not had to do any major fixes on it I do sleep better at night knowing that I have several friends who are car guys that have all the equipment and tools to pretty much fix anything on it, within reason.
Also, lots of enthusiasts for those cars out there, plenty of forums with 20+ years worth of documentation from people fixing their own roadster and helping others fix theirs. Small car, physical buttons and controls, well engineered, fast, fun and reliable.
I’ve been thinking about getting a used Z4 next when my current Z3 dies. Early 00s Z4s are barely more expensive than Z3s these days and they are unquestionably superior driving machines - I particularly like that they don’t use the same rear suspension as WWII-era Soviet trucks like the Z3 does. I honestly don’t think they’re as attractive, though.
I am so annoyed at Honda for discontinuing the Accord Sport 6 speed. I have one from about 10 years back and it is without question the best balance between efficiency, space, utility and fun. It is my “mom car” that can get the kids to school (now they even drive themselves, college daughter drops off high school kid on her way to school) and drives like a dream. I thought the Sport thing was just trim but apparently not, it handles better than my husband’s Mazda.
It’s not like I need a new one right now, or maybe even for ten more years. But God I miss being able to get manual shift at a discount instead of a premium. Honestly this is probably my last gas car and maybe last car, but dammit I am just sad.
Driving is about butt-chuggig 50 years of american propaganda to the point you can’t even differentiate you own opinion from a Facebook minions meme.
But yeah have fun filling yours and the rest of our bloodstreams with micro plastics cause vroom is more important
Jesus Christ. Breathe.
Man I’m trying to but its 35° and my city is drowning in CO
I’m not sure how me driving to work with an automatic vs manual transmission affects that but okay buddy
It’s about the whole driving experience stuff. Cars are utilitary and they made us believe it’s about passion.
I wrecked my car 3 years ago and we decided to not buy a new one. We’re doing just fine without a car. We need one from time to time but car sharing has proven to ve really cheap. It seems like we have spent over 600 Euros a mont on our car before. Now we just spend a fraction of that.
Riding for pleasure is something for the tracks, I suppose.
You couldn’t project any harder if you were a fucking Epson.
“They” don’t make me believe shit.Congrats on ditching your car. If people who didn’t give a shit about cars weren’t forced to drive we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Took me a while to get that reference. In my mind Epsons are printers not projectors.
I live in a country where cars are part of your salary. Especially because that part of your wage doesn’t get taxed. It is very clear that ‘they’ installed a very car centric thinking into society. Sure, some people aren’t affected or influenced but way too many people are.
Since a few years bikes are treated in a likewise manner and now 30% of my colleages chooses a bike over a car. That has resulted in a surge of bike sales and that unfortunately. made them terribly expensive.
I do like cars though. That’s why I hit the track a few times a year.
Exactly, is just straight up for fun. I’d argue they’re safer too. You pay way more attention in a stick shift, looking ahead timing shifts with traffic flow, leaving space and coasting to red lights, and the extra speed control on steep windy mountain roads is amazing especially in the winter.
Was lucky to get a 2021 Crosstrek in a manual, which I guess Subaru doesn’t do in Canada anymore, so it’ll likely be the last ICE car I have. If I’m joining the zombie horde of alternating mashing gas or brake depending what’s happening 10m in front of me I better at least get some torque out of it.
Will we see a similar post when they completely switch over to steer by wire?
