I’m glad they included a fire emoji after “self-imolated” I wasn’t sure if that involved fire or not
Holy shit I hadn’t clicked yet and hoped you were joking. I’m sure they mean well but I find that really disturbing, what a weird use of emoji…
There are probably quite a few people who dont know what “immolate” means, so maybe its intended for those.
Hmm. While I can see that and appreciate the inclusiveness of it, it still feels like the wrong choice to me. Maybe times are changing (obviously) and I need to get used to emojis being used in a more serious tone? But I don’t know… Are we there yet?
No i agree that it was used poorly, also because that emoji is usually used for exiting/positive things. I was just trying to throw out ideas, as to why it might have been used.
I’m sorry, but this person just threw away their life with an act that will have zero impact and is going to be forgotten by Wednesday.
Poor kid.
Its not smug. I’m a communist and its just one less person that agrees with us and can help people. Did Bushnell doing this do anything? No.
Did Bushnell doing this do anything? No.
Says who? You?
The people detracting this as ‘nothing’ are clearly so comfy in there own situations they cant imagine any action, nevermind a strong one like this having an impact.
Thats your problem.
Says who? You?
Material reality. People have done this before for a myriad of causes. Does it stop empire? No. Lenin never said ‘go kill yourself it totally will change everything’.
The people detracting this as ‘nothing’ are clearly so comfy in there own situations they cant imagine any action, nevermind a strong one like this having an impact.
I run a homeless shelter. Thats at least one thing you could do that is far better than killing yourself for a cause. In fact, anything is better.
Material reality. People have done this before for a myriad of causes. Does it stop empire? No. Lenin never said ‘go kill yourself it totally will change everything’.
Marxism isnt a orthodoxy that needs to be followed like a religion, im not going to judge the protest actions of others if it serves to protest a ongoing genocide being comitted by that persons government.
I run a homeless shelter. Thats at least one thing you could do that is far better than killing yourself for a cause. In fact, anything is better.
Firstly, cool. That doesnt change anything about how much you’re smugging over a dead person rather than allowing it to inspire.
I don’t know how you see it as anything other than sadly acknowledging a thrown away life. Do you think there is a magic number of self-immolations that will change US or Israeli policy? If one wasn’t enough a thousand won’t be.
I dont think there is a magic number, I think the hope behind these actions are to inspire to enact more change and to show all human life has value, I think disregarding this as nothing demonstrates a lack of empathy or working class spirit.
Marxism isnt a orthodoxy that needs to be followed like a religion, im not going to judge the protest actions of others if it serves to protest a ongoing genocide being comitted by that persons government.
You absolutely should be against chain suicides, like any good person is.
Firstly, cool. That doesnt change anything about how much you’re smugging over a dead person rather than allowing it to inspire.
Because it shouldn’t be copied, by anyone. There were many dozens of people that did this during Vietnam, of similar ages. Did that cause America to stop? No. None of the protesting did. Military defeat at the hands of Vietnamese communists did.
‘Inspiration’ and nonsense does not make a change in the world. All it does is add another sad headline, of which there are plenty to be had.
You absolutely should be against chain suicides, like any good person is.
‘Chain suicides’ you’re inserting a bunch of nonsense no one has argued for. Lenin absolutely sent people to commit acts of violence on his behalf, and there have been many examples of suicide protest during occupied nazi europe having an impact.
You judge these things as not being impactfull the literal day after it happens, this is ridiculous. Its had enough of an impact we’re sitting here talking about it, this can be said to be more than most are doing.
Because it shouldn’t be copied, by anyone. There were many dozens of people that did this during Vietnam, of similar ages. Did that cause America to stop? No. None of the protesting did. Military defeat at the hands of Vietnamese communists did.
It pressured people to come back to the table, of course it did. Your ignorance of the impact of those protests doesnt make them not impactfull.
‘Inspiration’ and nonsense does not make a change in the world. All it does is add another sad headline, of which there are plenty to be had.
It likely sounds like nonsense because you’ve already accepted defeat.
Bingo
After the self-immolation, the US put more pressure on Diệm to re-open negotiations on the faltering agreement. Diệm had scheduled an emergency cabinet meeting at 11:30 a.m. on 11 June to discuss the Buddhist crisis which he believed to be winding down. Following Quảng Đức’s death, Diệm canceled the meeting and met individually with his ministers. Acting US Ambassador to South Vietnam William Trueheart warned Nguyễn Đình Thuận, Diệm’s Secretary of State, of the desperate need for an agreement, saying that the situation was “dangerously near breaking point” and expected Diệm would meet the Buddhists’ five-point manifesto. United States Secretary of State Dean Rusk warned the Saigon embassy that the White House would publicly announce that it would no longer “associate itself” with the regime if this did not occur.[29] The Joint Communiqué and concessions to the Buddhists were signed on 16 June.[30]
So what’s the key difference? IMO “dangerously near breaking point”. We aren’t in danger of a breaking point. What are you going to do, vote for a even more conservative person? The 1% has crafted themselves a win win situation with First Past The Post voting. The liberal party in Canada recently promised electoral reform to their voters, yet the voting system remains.
Because that’s democracy, having a insanely limited amount of options to vote for. Feeling represented yet? No? Fuck you, vote for my guy. That’s democracy, fuck you and what you believe, just vote for my guy.
Have you ever talked to a democrat about voting third party before? Boy they sure seem to understand the faults of First Past The Post voting, because nearly every single one you talk to about this will mention how a vote not for their guy is a vote for the other guy. How can you point out these glaring mathematical faults of our voting system and then, some way some how, wash your hands of the issue Post election?
Now hang on just one second my blue conservative “ally”, you can’t just do nothing about the voting system after bringing up all those flaws when we discussed voting for a third party. You can’t lecture people on how to vote in “the most important election ever” and then not work tirelessly to enact state level reforms to fix the problems YOU YOURSELF enthusiasticly bring up to vote shame people into supporting your guy.
Here are some videos on the topic if you’d like to know more:
First Past The Post voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Other electoral systems to choose from:
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
You realize the voter you speak to has no influence on policies right? They are right that in current america you cannot vote for 3rd parties without helping fascists get in power. However a vote for blue doesnt mean something about the system gets changed either. At least it will not make things much worse and maybe improve some other stuff. Voting for a third party will not help. The only thing that would change the political system in america is a revolution to tear the current system down. That will be bloody in america though.
Horrific.
The letter from the MIA is extremely well written, and conveys a lot of humanity and sympathy. I’m moved.
That’s sickeningly tragic. End the genocide.
And it’ll change absolutely nothing
It does have impact. Public sentiment is not something that changes in one day. Lots of smaller actions change it over time. Demonstrations and even self immolations though I would not condone self harm as a demonstration method.
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