Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.
Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)
Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.
Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.
While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.
You must log in or register to comment.
I’m someone who grew up on Windows but switched to Linux and holy shit was it so much nicer. I don’t know if Windows massively improved or if people are just incapable of comparing something new with something they already know. Because Windows is hard.
99/100 basic users need someone to unfuck their windows install after what, one, two years?
Every time you need to do something non standard you’re basically going from training wheels to “good luck, deputy sysadmin.”
Broken registry. Orphaned cruft.
Malware, spyware.
Maybe 10-12 years ago. I have provided friends and family with tech support for a long time (20+ years) and I’d say I haven’t had any relatives call me for support in 5 years.
It’s part user education, but mostly that the OS is generally so stable and solid that it isn’t necessary anymore.
I personally have two desktops, one windows and one Ubuntu. I use them both equally and have more issues with Ubuntu acting randomly funky than Windows 11.
- Ubuntu – random funkiness
- Windows – malicious funkiness
That’s why I never advanced past Windows 7.
Windows 8 looked like crap.
Windows 9 didn’t exist.
Windows 10 looked like they tried to unfuck Windows 8 with a mild degree of sucsess.
Windows 11 is actively the worst operating system I’ve ever heard of.
Meanwhile, I’ve installed about 6 different versions of linux. I don’t get it. It looks like an operating system that I SHOULD like…but 12 years, and 6 different attempts later, I don’t get it. I gotta remember code to install things?
Something like this:
Sudo fru inst = c:/update install “program”
And it spits out an error because it’s as much jibberish to linux as it is to me.
I just want to click.
Click click. Installed. Done.
I shit you not. I have a case for a raspberry pi. That case has a fan. For some stupid reason, that fan does not have a switch. Instead you need to install that fan with the operating system. I forget the code, but it’s actually really easy. You know what’s NOT easy? Getting the fan to work after I updated everything.
Apperently that shits impossible. Theres even a github page where some guy wrote another code, which I can’t figure out, that unfucks the fucking that any update does.
Then you got some linux users saying “always update and stay up to date!”
Then you got other linux users saying “don’t ever update unless you need to”.
Then there’s android. I like android. I can use android. Android is built on linux. So thats proof you CAN have linux be a stable user friendly operating system.
And 2009-2015 taught me that android can be free of corporate bullshit. Fully customizable. You can install your own take on it. In android they’re called roms, but in linux it’s distros.
Yet I’ve NEVER seen a distro run like android.
I’m sure they could even come pretty close to what windows is. But the people who develop linux have such a hate grudge against windows, that they refuse to admit that windows is the easier to use software, and the masses will only use software thats easy to use.
I’d LOVE to use my equipment I paid 200 dollars for. Instead, the last 3 years it’s sat unused, because the thing runs hot, and I can’t turn the fan on. That’s what is preventing me from playing the 800gb of roms (video games, not android images) I put on that card. That’s whats preventing me from linux. I can’t turn the fan on.
I have provided friends and family with tech support for a long time (20+ years) and I’d say I haven’t had any relatives call me for support in 5 years
That’s cause they don’t use their computer anymore. They do everything on their phones now.
To be fair, troubleshooting windows so I could play games in the 90s led to me becoming an actual sysadmin, so that’s cool I guess
Ah, the days of manually editing files in DOS so you could run Warcraft. No thank you.
But you have to admit warcraft was amazing and worth the hassle :)
This way! No, THAT way!
Touche, mon frere. Touche.
Same here, but DOS.
Windows is fairly stable now. I have been averaging about 4 years an install and I have only been reinstalling due to new disks.
My windows install (unfortunately 11 now because I needed nested virtualization on AMD) was first installed in 2016.
Since then I have switched the boot drive twice, the processor and motherboard once, the GPU once, upgraded and installed non OS disks many times.
I have not reinstalled it a single time. I do know quite a bit about windows so I have been able to fix every issue so far (except a new weird one that’s annoying but not game breaking), but still it shows how stable Windows is these days. Updates have not broken anything that I can think of (except that annoying update that everyone got in February or something, which doesn’t work because it tried to do something which doesn’t work.).
And yes I know I should reinstall but that would be so much work.
My experience mirrors yours. Back in the day I used to have to do clean installs all the time, but I haven’t for years now, and I’ve swapped lots of hardware and disks, etc. it’s fairly problem free for the most part, except for the creeping sense of doom I feel with each new piece of adware they cram into the user interface. I am definitely planning on switching to Linux, I have an Ubuntu server and have installed a flash drive version of arch on my laptop before, but I just haven’t hit a wall yet that makes all the work of completely switching necessary yet.
I don’t know what version of XP you’re using, but this is not true in the last decade. The only times I reinstalled Windows was when I bought a bigger SSDs to my notebooks and figure to just do a clean one and play with the partitions a little. I never, ever, needed to reinstall because something was broken, even after updates. And my company still have notebooks running for about 6 years without needing a reinstall, which would be a huge headache.
Now on Ubuntu, Fedora, elementaryOS… I always had those implode for one reason or another, usually thanks to system updates. I got my DE dead by installing an app. I got it locked by uninstalling an app. And I wasn’t even doing fancy stuff like using the terminal to hack stuff.
I really wish I could migrate from Windows, specially now withbthis AI crap. The truth is, Linux is an usability nightmare and it still has a long, long way to go. Even macOS is better, and that’s saying a lot.
Is it still an unpopular opinion if I just hate that I agree with you?
(Writing this from my linux gaming desktop. I don’t use arch btw)
Yes we can be unpopular together.
Hey, if you get enough of you to agree, it’ll be the popular unpopular opinion!
Philosophy time: Is it unpopular opinion if 90% of PC users agree with you?
On the other hand, this is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy
Which is why I posted it. I was honestly hoping to be proven wrong, but instead I got a lot of victim blaming. Even Linux users aren’t ready to accept mainstream people coming from Windows.
Why do Windows users feel entitled to the free labor of others.
I don’t think open source developers should feel obligated to chase after “normal users”, they should just make great software. Linux is arguably the most successful OS that has ever existed, if it’s not dominant in one specific shrinking sector is that the worst thing in the world?
Linux (+ everything needed for a desktop) has been a great desktop system for 20+ years, most difficulties aren’t the fault of Linux, they’re the fault of vendors failing to support and/or Microsoft throwing up barriers to competition.
Linux is arguably the most successful OS that has ever existed
…what??? If we’re talking about users using the desktop experience (so like, not systems where linux is the backend, but the user never experiences it), then Windows is the dominant OS platform. If for nothing else than people know how to use it because every business uses it.
Second most used would be iOS.
And then…with maybe less than 1% of users, would be linux. Nobody uses Linux, because nobody knows how the fuck to use it.
Saying Linux is the most dominant OS platform for users is like saying Kwanzaa is the most celebrated religious holiday. I’m 40 years old. I’ve been in jobs where you meet new people every day. Probably have met thousands of people.
I’ve met exactly ONE linux user. Well…I should say linux family. He was a 34 year old, who lived at his grandmothers house, because he lived with his dad, and his 62 year old dad still lived with his 93 year old mom. But, I only interacted with the family for 2-3 hours. I’m still not 100% sure the mom was actually alive. I briefly saw her move, but you could easily convince me it was a weekend at bernies situation.
I cannot give an accurate number on how many windows users I’ve used. It’s far too high.
Do I upvote this post if I disagree or only if I know most people disagree with it?
Right???
don’t worry about it. with the enshittification of win 11, that gap will close faster than copilot will record your activities.
Those upcoming changes are why I’ve been playing with the idea of a complete switch to Linux. While I use Linux regularly (but certainly not exclusively) and feel comfortable making the transition to it from Windows, my wife and kids would struggle with some aspects of Linux. And committing all of us to that OS transition would mean a commitment for me of troubleshooting, assisting, and educating the family.
Thanks OP for this post. I know you’re getting some shit for it, but I and others appreciate your honest findings.
I don’t think OP’s analysis should be taken as offensive or disingenuous by others here. And I don’t understand why they are getting shit. I’ve been using Linux off and on for 20 years. It’s come an insanely long way in that timeframe with its usability for less technical users. But yes, there are still some gaps to fill. And the way to fix them is to listen to honest feedback like OP’s.
If OP is unwilling to learn basic features of the OS, of course they face criticism. This post is not a good contribution, it is once more a superficial review by someone who has jumped on the hating GNU/Linux bandwagon because they somehow personally identify with M$. But the Apple crowd is worse.
I’m OP, I’m not unwilling. I couldn’t turn this laptop over to anyone else though.
Also, I don’t hate Linux nor do I love windows. I hate windows probably more, for other reasons. The pinnacle OS for me is OSX as distributed on the BlackBerry passport.
I’m even on an Apple phone right now.
It’s not difficult to empathize with non-technical people though, which is why my post is about.
So 2025 is the year of Linux desktop? This time for real.
Cosmic DE is coming out this year tho
windows isn’t ready to replace windows. they never have been.
Poor take. 3.1, NT4, 95, 98SE, 2000, xp, 10. All were widely considered to be a considerable improvement over the OS they replaced.
Where Millennium and Visita?? :D
Vista was a sacrifice. They needed vista to be awful so 8+ could fly.
ME was designed by the marketing team.
I really liked Vista, it was the first stable Windows for me that I didn’t have to reinstall once in a while.
Never used 8, I hated it.
Millennium wasn’t just a stunt, but it got bad reputation bcs of not-really compatible drivers with W98.
sure good old fashioned stuff from when I was a baby or something excluding 10 which really didn’t offer much apart from more telemetry than ever and even more convoluted system settings menus. I’ll let the pre-10 releases that weren’t total garbage slide but any widely considered improvement going forward at least will be shills, bots, and ai articles, calling it now.
I suspect with MS pushing their products to be based on webview2 (teams, new outlook, etc) that the next OS they release will be designed for a more efficient cpu architecture, similar to what Apple is doing. Like vista, it will probably suck until it gains more mainstream support.
Honestly… I love Linux with all my heart. I can firsthand say that the Linux Desktop is 20 thousand times better than when I got into it around the first Ubuntu betas, but it’s still quite a mess in certain areas. It often boils down to the hardware and software you expect to run on it (or viable alternatives, if they exist) being compatible or not.
I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?” because the use case is so important to consider.
If you just need a PC to browse the web and consume media then Linux is absolutely fine. This should more or less apply to a large group of users that don’t do anything else with their devices.
Are you a gamer? Then I’d say more or less perfectly fine but it really depends on the games you want to play. Everything with the new, invasive anti-cheat tools doesn’t work (e. g. League of Legends) but smaller, single player, or many multi player games do work at the moment.
Are you a professional or are using otherwise specific software? This is the biggest hurdle I see at the moment. CAD programs for engineering are a big problem for example.
And last but not least: Are you using periphery that needs specific drivers? Printers, audio interfaces, and whatnot. Then you might be out of luck as well if you can’t script.
The last two points are the only ones that would worry me when I won’t have at least one windows machine lying around.
I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?”
Incorrect. The answer is “No.”
So Linux is fine until you need to print, use software and some other scenarios? Explain that to my niece.
your niece is using ChromeOS or Android and making fun of her uncle for still being on a desktop
Your niece sets her windows pc up herself then or how can I understand your example?
Heres how you set up windows.
Step 1, put the disk in the tray.
Step 2, click next about a jillion times without reading anything.
Step 3, maybe put in a 16 digit code or whatever on the CD.
Step 4, drink a bunch of beer as your pc does the rest for the next hour.
Step 5, open Edge (today) or Internet Explorer (up until like 10-15 years ago).
Step 6, go to facebook, because thats all this machine can do.
And thats the average windows user.
I print and use software all day.
Thank you for your bigoted take. You know very well that a) GNU/Linux can print, b) it can “use software” and c) deal with any other scenario.
How tf is that bigoted?
I was paraphrasing…
I need to disagree on pretty much all points. I switched both my mother and an old friend of mine to linux and neither of them had any major issues. They’re not technical people, but they understood the basics needed for everyday use without problem.
I swear, half the issues people report after trying out linux are entirely related to the nvidia drivers and nothing else.
You’re the monster I deal with the remains of at my job lol
an adventure in terminal
That I do not understand. With APT, it’s usually a single installation command for any kind of software packaged by the distribution. An adventure would in that case translate to a one-liner by your standards?
Any problem that breaks the GUI version to such a degree that the user must resort to using the terminal is a problem. You and I may be content to use the terminal – hell, I tend to prefer it over most GUi options – but that doesn’t mean your average user will be happy to do so.
I would be surprised if 5% of the people that use a computer at all know how to work a CLI of any form.
Additionally, when you get a response from the command that the dependencies failed to install, what is the typical computer operator expected to do? They are already far outside of their abilities at this point.
Anti-libre software forcing us to click through 69 boxes to fail without showing any error while banning us from sharing fixes source code, banning us from fixing the problem, is so much better. I would be surprised if 0.00001% can’t open terminal, type three words and press enter.
Windows isn’t good enough to replace the Unix/linux desktops I’ve been running for the past 35 years.
What’s Windows?
A retirement system the Kremlin uses.
For media consumption, internet browsing etc, Linux is more than ready to replace Windows. However, problems do arise in exotic hardware combinations, but these days, this is the exception rather than the norm.
1997 was the year of Linux on the desktop.
Also 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
2024 baby! I can feel it.
This will be the millenium of the Linux desktop!
As a full-time Linux user and evangelist, I agree that it’s not ready for most users. Just too many issues and idiosyncrasies. Mostly bugs and hardware incompatibility things. Also way too easy to break your system.
It is a tough sale for sure.
I am trying to transition to Linux but there are a bunch of hurdles.
For example I installed fedora KDE spin in dual boot on my desktop. Then I installed steam as a flatpak and pointed it to my already installed game. Didn’t work because of some permissions I didn’t understand how to configure with flatseal.
Alright then noted I need to learn that shit but now I want to play a game so I uninstalled the steam flatpak and installed the steam package from the fedora repo. Checked the boxes in the packagemanager-gui (discovery) for nonfree steam and nonfree nvidia drivers, pointed to the library and it worked.
Great! Updated the games and downloaded the saves. So far so good. But after all that I had no time to play anymore because i had to look up a bunch of stuff to understand that I don’t understand enough to make it work the way I tried.
I took my laptop with me which also has fedora KDE on it. When I had a little time I thought “hey maybe I can play a bit of moonring. After all I now know how to get steam running”.
So I downloaded steam from the fedora repo, Logged in, downloaded moonring and… No save sync.
I go into settings and see that cloud save is enabled. Start a game maybe that triggers it? Nope.
It doesn’t even say that sync failed or something like that beside the start button.
Okay so off to the web search. But as that gets more fucked by the minute I just get some problem adjacent stuff.
Like: “how to install steam on fedora”. I already installed it, why isn’t the cloud working? “Maybe it is because the path for savefiles is casesensitive?”. Maybe but what am I supposed to do about it? And so on. So I closed my laptop with a bad taste in my mouth.
It is just frustrating to have to understand a bunch of shit you are not interested in just so that something works which worked before without a problem.
The world is just to complex and fast moving to understand everything and to retain everything. That’s why we are an expert society. “I invest my time to understand this stuff really good and you invest your time to understand this and in the end we exchange our labor”.
And that’s the “problem” with Linux, that you have invest time into it. And people mostly don’t have the time because they have lifes beside the PC.
If moonring has a linux native variant, it is not going to sync saves between versions automatically, you can download the proton version of your game however and snag your game files to put in the linux native version (or honestly just play the proton version, they are usually more up to date)
I gave up when the graphics kept breaking itself on every update. I don’t have the time or patience to fix that kind of stuff, anymore.
Anti-libre software, Steam, bans us from sharing fixed source code. Software hijacking our control, no one has time for that.
