TLDR: StartAllBack, ExplorerPatcher and some other projects are being blocked on 24H2.
One more reason to switch to Linux
The Microsoft devs have time to do shit like this, but haven’t yet gotten the Settings screen as functional as Control Panel was two decades ago…
I really hate having the taskbar permanently affixed to the bottom of my screen. I’ve had it on the left side for decades now. They are really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Someone at Microsoft “Customization is the enemy of progress!”
I’m on 10 and been a top taskbar guy for years. Are you saying 11 forces you to have taskbar only on bottom?
Correct
Welp fuck. Guess I’ll start looking at Linux but every company I’ve worked for in the past 10 years is ALL Microsoft all the way
Wine does a Lotta shit. I know I have an NTFS drive running on my debian-family machine.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
You can run a lot of windows apps on Linux even if they don’t say they’re compatible, with a tool called WINE
Also, it matters less if youre a little tipsy.
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The taskbar was movable since it was first introduced in Win95. I’ve always had a top taskbar, and will continue to do so in Linux.
I have been missing the ability to split the quick launch and dock it since XP was the last time you could. I had a dedicated auto hiding bar on the right where I put shortcuts to all of my most used folders and applications. I have looked for solutions that brought that functionality back off and on, but never found anything.
Most things are close, but not quite right, and/or very “bloated” (for what I want it to do, not necessarily for what it was designed to do). It’s so dumb.
Just a slight correction, Vista was the last time you could split toolbars off of the taskbar like that, its taskbar was basically the same as XP still. The redesign in 7 was when we lost that ability.
Will say the docked toolbars did look significantly worse in vista as they all got an wide aero border
Huh, thinking about it I’m not sure if I ever really ran Vista on my main desktop at home, so that would make sense. I think I went from my roided out XP x64 image to win 7 despite using Vista quite a bit when working on customer’s PCs. Thanks for the correction, cheers.
Why? Why even fucking do this? What do they get? And why is their default ux so aggressively terrible?
They want you to use the search instead of a functional interface. That’s why they keep making the interface worse.
It lets them spy on you through bing, allows them to fill the results with ads, and lets them hide system applications unless you know exactly how to find them.
It’s also them gearing up towards funneling the entire UX through copilot for largely the same reasons.
The entire goal is to flip the operating system from the slave of the user to the master of the content.
As to how rationales go, this is the clearest.
I hate it.
Yeah that sounds probable, and I’m worried what happens to all the data on windows machines when they do.
The fact that windows is now becoming Apple 2.0 is kinda crazy ngl lol, thought shouldn’t be surprising cuz every tech company is now doing enshittification at this point.
And yet they’re not even becoming apple in the areas where apple does well - UX consistency, battery optimisations, a reasonably well-curated app store, etc
They’re not becoming Apple 2.0, Apple is becoming Microsoft 2.0. If you look into the history of Microsoft and Windows, you’ll see that they’ve always been this way, but have received more pushback in the past. Microsoft is the OG tech giant empire.
They’re not exactly “being blocked” but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I’m not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.
They’re not exactly “being blocked”
Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
Not if you’re using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.
But sure, downvote me.
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The article is actually incomplete. Some insider builds already lack the old taskbar, it can’t be invoked and if an application relies on it you simply get a crash.
This is not new behavior from Windows. When legacy features are going to be removed, they do stagger updates when users have known software conflicts installed, they also might throw warnings. This is exactly what we are seeing now.
Though the fact this small article is just reporting on Reddit information rather than testing insider builds is not my fault nor my concern.
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sounds like a 21st century version of quack3.exe.
They are, to the best of Microsoft security professionals’ abilities
Just kidding, the devs are probably using ExplorerPatcher themselves and are sabotaging this asshole move
Why is Microsoft even deciding what programs I can run on my computer in the first place? They’re not malware, they shouldn’t be doing this at all.
It’s the Windows Defender component. Blocking things that interfere with your computer is literally what it was designed and intended to do.
Good news hidden in the article:
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
@OP: People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
Well that’s a take
I mean, go off about it not competing, that’s some BS. But Linux doesn’t offer the compatibility and ease of use that Windows has on a day to day basis. There’s not really any argument to be made there.
Frustrating antipatterns, poor design decisions, poorly communicated reasons for functionality loss with updates (what this article is about), and settings requiring hoop jumping to touch aren’t unique to Windows and magically never present with Linux.
Linux is amazing, neccessary, and I sincerely hope it continues to grow as a valid competitor eventually taking over, but it’s still really rough in a lot of areas as a power user.
There are a handful of very user friendly distros for people who just need to do basic stuff on their computer and have it just work. Web browsing, document editing, even playing games that are just semi-popular (instead of only the most popular) all tend to work to a reasonable degree of “it just works” now.
There’s also an amazing amount of customizability and power placed in the hands of the user if they’re willing to dig into the guts of it. Run your own customized kernel with the specific patches you want, re-code part of a driver to meet your needs. Build an entire distro from source code up, piece by piece, exactly to your wishes. Compatability layers between different desktop environments. Mess with your drivers. It’s all open to mess with.
But what often gets left behind are people in the middle. I need a lot more than just basic functionality, and I have no fear about compiling stuff from code or making pull requests. I have the skills to make Linux work. What I don’t have is the time in my life to be digging in the guts regularly to get shit working on my computer, which is still far too often a requirement with Linux. Just look at discussions in the Linux communities here to see how absurd it can be to get a RDP or VNC client working, depending on your particular setup and graphics card.
It’s like the difference between getting a Honda Civic and working on a project car. You might need to change a tire, brake pads, change the oil on the Civic. You don’t need to mess with engine valve timings.
I really enjoy tinkering with Linux when I have the time, but most of my life I need my shit to just reliably work so I can get my shit done. I prefer my computer to be a tool far more than a project, and Linux is still too much of a project for a lot of people.
I would describe myself as firmly “in the middle”, and I honestly don’t disagree with your points overall. However, I think Windows isn’t really “easier to use” than most Linux distros, it’s just what most people are used to.
That doesn’t take away from your argument, as being familiar with an OS will make it easier to use and that’s completely valid, but someone who’s used Linux all their life would similarly face struggles using Windows. User inertia is a huge factor contributing to Windows’ marketshare.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux
I did. I was a heavy Windows customizer and deeply understand it as an operating system and target for application development. I left because, at some point, I realized the OS I (one way or another) paid for was treating me like a product instead of a user, and I resent that. I don’t like the feeling of slowly losing grip on the OS as it slides into becoming adtech tooling for marketing interests instead of the thing that runs programs for me. Despite my entrenched Windows knowledge, none of my primary personal computers run it anymore, including my gaming PC. Adaptation is a lot easier than most people expect, in my opinion.
This comment is simply wrong. Linux doesn’t compete with Windows desktop because it’s already ahead of it.
yup
Dude, the fact I like I can customize windows is EXACTLY why I’m switching to linux now that Microsoft wants a piece of that apple pie
Wow, now I’m really glad I switched to Linux. Windows? Never again.
Aaand another reason to stay with 10.
Windows 10 is filled with shit decisions too. And it won’t be supported much longer anyway. If you want to keep using Windows, but not 11, it’s going to be advisable that you use it offline only.
You’re right on all counts.
And I am not happy about about any of this.
Of yeah, and then there is this: Microsoft’s draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025
Hope FTC does something before this deadline hits.
- Microsoft blocks app with major security and performance concerns from Russian dev.
Fixed that headline for ya, big guy.
Hmm. Russia or Russian programmers were not in the article. The only reason was performance:
It is possible that Microsoft blocked those apps due to a higher number of crashes on build 26100, which is allegedly version 24H2 RTM build.
You realize you can get info from other sources right? Not just this one article?
Site your source
What? You can’t do simple research now?
Dev: https://msfn.org/board/profile/36858-tihiy/
Dyor. This is Lemmy, not reddit.
Regardless, always cite source
What’s your source on that? That you always have to cite source? Not a rule on lemmy.
Checked your comment history, you make many claims and cite no sources. So what is this really about?
Seems like you want to argue for the sake of arguing.
Good luck my bro
Thanks for the link, but I still do not see where it says “Microsoft blocked apps because of Russian dev.”
The dev says that it’s related to depreciated features, not the country of origin:
Well, this has to do with myriad feature flags around copilot and working area hacks MS is doing. But generally classic taskbar is dead code and 24H2 is going bring only degradations and pain.
The irony is that people create these tools mostly because they’re frustrated by the limited customisation options provided by default. If Microsoft ever listens to feedback, it’s quite limited, and it takes ages for the new stuff get implemented; moreover very often you just about get used to something and the rug gets pulled from under your feet.
Micro$oft are being dicks again, film at 11 but here’s the thing - if you’re interested in customizing Windows - just grab that live distro and get to it man. Linux is here and it’s ready for prime time.
At this point Windows is just for businesses who don’t know better (or refuse to learn) and people who haven’t been told The Good News yet.
Sorry, it’s not ready for prime time.
It’s great for advanced users who are willing to put in the effort to work for them as a desktop.
It’s also great as a host for services.
And is dogshit in a business environment.
As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol). So I was in IT working before Linux existed.
I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured it as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery.
There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one. So many run-of-the mill things that take effort to deal with.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people.
There’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment, or for most users who are used to Windows/Office.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
As a very advanced user, I just don’t have the time to play fuck-fuck with Linux on a desktop - I have work to do with what little time I have.
Here’s a question: if Linux truly competes with Windows, why don’t massive organizations that have the IT manpower/expertise use it for their desktops? They’d save millions in licensing alone. Why is it they feel those tens of millions are better spent on contracts with MS?
See, ive had Linux problems, but my problem with windows is that I gave to actively fight the system to get anything done. It feels like PvP, and there’s fiat bullshit reverts of stuff. And the GUI is runny garbage!
Linux isn’t good enough, I agree.
But windows is far enough into enshitification that it isnt either anymore, and its getting worse. So fucking fast; its getting worse. I fucking miss usable windows; I’d still be on 7 if I could. But I can’t.
So if at this point Linux isn’t adequate, that means computers aren’t adequate. I use Linux so I don’t lose my computer, so it can do something at least.
There’s a bunch of problems with this post, but I’ll start by saying that at different times over the last decade I have certainly agreed that Linux just consumes too much of my time to use in a business environment. I’m rocking linux at work over the last few months, but just on Friday for example I booted into Windows because I couldn’t get a god damn Teams screen share to work.
Firstly, your post kind of deals with “business” as though all businesses have homogeneous use cases. Of course Linux might be more suitable for some businesses rather than others.
For power management, IDK what you’re saying really. I’m running a stock debian environment. I’ve never looked at these settings before but it took me literally 5 seconds to find the “Automatic Power Saver” options for low battery situations. Perhaps you want something specific that doesn’t exist but IDK, I don’t think this is really a deal breaker for business.
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at with Excel vs LibreOffice Calc. There’s 5 people on my team and we all use Calc all day every day. It’s fine. The features we use are “moderately complex”, as in complex functions, pivot tables, filtering, et cetera. No macros or db connections. Yes I’m sure some people use Excel in ways that Calc might struggle with, but I’m also sure the reverse is also true. Yes Calc has a more humble vibe.
if Linux truly competes with Windows, why don’t massive organizations that have the IT manpower/expertise use it for their desktops? They’d save millions in licensing alone.
This is a complex question. I think part of the answer is simply that this wasn’t always the case, a decade ago Linux was much less viable than it is today.
Orgs and individuals have built up a gargantuan amount of knowledge around and within the Windows ecosystem, and that knowledge has value. This means that moving to another platform will have huge training and support and specialist costs, even if the underlying platform is free.
Also, I’m sure you’ve seen the recent posts about whatever German state migrating 30,000 machines to Linux. You’ve probably also heard of that other German city that developed LiMux and ran it successfully for a decade and how desperate MS was to win them back.
As I started off by saying, yes there are problems, and I agree that Linux might be out of reach for many businesses for the next few years. However, the compelling issue I encounter regularly is compatibility with the microsoft ecosystem. That’s not so much the fault of Linux itself, but really a network effect problem. If everyone started using linux tomorrow microsoft would ensure teams would work without issue.
Linux isnt quite ready for prime time.
But neither is windows anymore, and Linux isnt generally shitting itself and taking features, features you might rely on away from you
The fucking precarity of modern windows, man. Plus the amount it must spy on you.
Good for you I guess but good luck with commercial software development when your whole toolchain is Windows only. Same for video games, and Proton only works properly if you have a new GPU which supports all the Vulkan features.
This will be true when Linux supports anticheat (well, when anticheat supports Linux).
Sure, not everyone uses their computer for gaming, but I’m sure a lot would like the option.
well, when anticheat supports Linux
It certainly does in many games. Helldivers 2, Hunt: Showdown, and Warframe are rated gold on Linux, Guild Wars 2 is rated platinum. Those are the first four multiplayer games that came to mind.
You have my attention, as someone who’s been considering switching my main to a Linux.
Those are all great games, but the unfortunate truth is that you’re still going to be limited. Some people may be totally okay with only playing the games that get support but I feel like I’d always feel like I’m missing out if a game I’m really interested in doesnt.
only games you’ll be missing is games with invasive kernal level drm/anticheat.
most people with common sense tend to avoid those games and their rootkits to begin with, so you’re really missing nothing by switching.
Sometimes theres a game that doesnt run great at the moment but within 3-6 months runs like a dream.
I’ll switch to Linux when Visual Studio Community (NOT Code) works on it and I never have to touch the command line ever again.
I still can’t believe Linux only have 5% of OS market share
I can. Do you really think computer savvy people are the majority of computer users?
It’s painful that this needs to be mentioned, and that people will actively argue that it’s not true…
I can too. A lot of people don’t know Linux exists
While that’s true but some DE nowadays make it easier for general consumer to install/using Linux as their main os, I think some people even scared of Linux and didn’t wanna touch it and that’s a shame
In either case, you still need to install a new OS, which is already a technical hurdle in itself, and know enough command line to fix things when they break/update packages, or to access things that might not have a UI.
Yeah, maybe someday Windows become so bad that people will do anything to get rid of it, I confess that I’m still using Windows 10 to play most of my games but I will ditch Windows once it reached EOL (I use Open SUSE for web browsing and documents editing and it’s been great so far)
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There is nothing tech savy in linux, if you use the right distro. Moreover, mostly tech savy people customize their OS and not average users. If an user can install an app for customizing, then linux is no more different.
if you use the right distro
Exactly, a sad amount of people wouldn’t be able to install windows if they had to. They definitely won’t be finding the right distro then installing.
You say this.
But its just not true.
It took my of all of a day with Linux mint before she needed to open up a command line and do things.
I love Linux . i would kill for Linux. Have killed for linux. And wil kill again for Linux. What’s that, tux? Sudo for person in store; do “$festoon_the_walls_with_their_guts”? If [[ -e $police ]]; then -eval sudo_works_in_real_,life; find / -type “*god” -exec /platonic_root/deicide police surviving_bystanders news_crews: fi; done
You’re always looking out for me bud. Sure I’ll do it.
You don’t really need any skills to use modern Linux. I would argue that it’s easier to use than Windows for someone who has basic googling skills. Windows have an annoying habit of getting in the way of the user and making things much harder than they need to be. For example, needing to use the registry editor for basic configuration options.
No regular Joe will ever need to use regedit, you’re thinking with yourself as reference, the majority of computer users aren’t going to configure shit. They just get a computer with Windows installed and they start using it.
They are forced to use Windows, like me
My last two jobs require(d) me to run windows. At one, I spent 95% of my time in a Linux VM so it was more tolerable.
That’s a good option, only if you have a powerful PC. Mine is not enough powerful for WSL to run
Usually just VirtualBox VM’s – i’ve never touched WSL except for the original version way back in the 90’s I think.
While Mixrosoft produces questionable software, they are really good at ugly marketing strategies.
It is imo literally unbelievable that e.g. the EU is not enforcing an own OS (that the EU and not another country can control) on the EU members administrations and militaries. Microsoft is good with stuff like this.
The volumes of cash that Microsoft throw at retailers (custom builders / big box) is astronomical. Worked for a relatively small retailer with some international buying power. EOFY “MDF” from Microsoft was an absurd figure.
Our builders would belt out 3 - 6 machines per day, depending on complexity of the custom build, the pre-built machines were in the 6+ per day range.
Considering the vast majority of those machines were running windows (some sold without an os), from a quick estimate after too many beers we were out of pocket 10% at most of the bulk buy price for licence keys after our “market development funds” came through.
It’s fucking crook.
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A wasted opportunity to natively support these features and make the user base happy.
I can’t use win11 without explorerpatcher, if it stops working I won’t know what to do
--------------------------------- / Got a problem with your PC? \ \ Want to make that NaN problems? / --------------------------------- \ \ .--. |o_o | |:_/ | // \ \ (| | ) /'\_ _/`\ \___)=(___/
One reason not to switch to linux: I want to play PCVR with my Quest 2. It has a really bad stutter when moving around using the only tool that works: ALVR, and this makes VR unplayable. I have not found an actual solution, just a handful of speculative issues threads that go silent as to what is the answer if any.
User won’t switch to Linux because of lack of software support, company won’t support Linux because of lack of user, such a vicious circle
The solution is to probably not use the Quest 2. And that’s a pretty crappy solution.
But VR on Linux sucks in general, so if you really need VR, it’s probably best to stick with Windows. I really hope things improve because I’d really like to play with VR, but I’m unwilling to use Windows or make a Meta account, so I’m sitting on the sidelines until a reasonably affordable headset ($500-ish) with reasonably good app support on Linux is available.
Laughs loudly in perfectly working steam index on Linux.
Perfectly?
What games or experiences do you play? I’m basically in VRChat all day with OVR and XSOverlay.
I’m eager to know what workarounds you needed to do in order to get “perfect working order”
The only issue I seem to have is when one of the frequent Nvidia drivers is updated I need to re-run flatpak update to pull updates manually, and occasionally I have to disconnect and reconnect the display cable or I get a hardware address issue. That’s it. Oh and the beacons don’t properly sleep/wake in Linux they just stay on.
I usually play
- super hot
- beat saber
- moss
- Alyx
- google earth
- redout
- star wars squadrons
Never tried VR chat. I use VR and games to get away from people not closer 😂
I’m sure there are pain points I’m glossing over, controller config I remember can be a pain, as most aren’t developed with index in mind. In my mind these are artefacts of adopting any new technology before it’s form factor is standardized and ubiquitous.
So “perfectly” for me, now that I’ve come to know what it’s prerequisites are.
Oh I have to do this, oh I have to do that. Doesn’t sound perfectly to me 🤣
You’re absolutely right. You should 100% stay on windows, where it all works the very first time and forevermore! I never see anyone posting about issues with that OS! Enjoy!
Delusional. You Linux fanboys are something else.
Pico 4, though instead of Meta it’s the Chinese
I didn’t get my headset new, I got it on ebay for cheap. I also made a Meta account specifically for the Quest and nothing else.
ALVR works on Linux with Quest 2, BeatSaber works fine, dont know much about other games.
Yeah you should stay on windows and never check out Linux. Hopefully ques too is great.
