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I dont really understand this. Does tiktok have a group call feature now? Or are they equating short form videos of strangers to “hanging out”?
Yeah I was on board until the tik tok part
Tiktok has DMs and livestreams, which can kind of shake out to be about the same.
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Simply different people expressing their opinion when they’re the ones concerned with the change happening at the moment.
…ooooooor TikTok propaganda through social media works… Never on me though!
I still hate it for that, but I also hate that the US government only cares if our privacy is violated by foreign actors and not a bunch of Silicon Valley dweebs.
Honestly, while it’s obvious why Tiktok is getting singled out, I hope it can be used as a precedent for cracking down on other data collecting companies.
It won’t, though, particularly because it’s specifically not required for TikTok to allow users to download their data if they’re divested to an American company before the deadline. Had anyone really cared, this would be a case for data privacy laws. But that’s not what it’s really about.
I know the details of the ban, but it will still bring the conversation to the general public more then not doing anyway at all.
I don’t feel confident about that. The bill has two elements of wide appeal: 1) General distrust of China and 2) General dislike of TikTok. At least from what I’ve seen, very little attention has been paid to the privacy/data collection part of the bill outside of tech-saavy circles. I feel like GDPR would’ve been the much larger push for data privacy, but it has lost its novelty and nothing has changed on this side of the pond. Hell, even Cambridge Analytica hardly sparked any lasting changes.
1.I don’t trust China.
- I don’t trust Tiktok or like ultra short form media.
So cool, cool.
I really don’t have a horse in this race. Politics is a spectators sport and I’m just coasting until climate change makes this all moot.
My point wasn’t really that you shouldn’t care about those things, just that I don’t think this bill will make any difference when it comes to increasing data privacy protections. In the “best case” (by government standards), TikTok will still be around. It’ll just be operated by a US company, and those have not exactly been known to be responsible with user data.
The biggest concern even for people who hate TikTok is the broad wording of the bill that possibly restricts using a VPN to access said banned sites. It’s a very dangerous precedent to set and is a much bigger part of the opposition than any particular love of TikTok.
Yeah I think no one stops to ask who those silicon valley jerks sell our data to. The answer is anyone. Including big brother who otherwise cannot legally collect it - but it’s legal now because a company did it and we bought it!
Exactly. It’s like it’s only bad if China gets all our data and influences us without Zuck and Musk getting their cut. But as long as they have to buy data and ads from them it’s fine.
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it’s even worse if it’s GCHQ gathering it and then just handing it over to the CIA, where the cia gathering it themselves would be illegal, but they use treaties and diplomacy as loopholes to subvert our actual legal protections.
Except that China can just buy it from American companies, mostly because our government won’t do anything to protect our privacy.
Astroturfing
Jesus Christ not everything is fake, it’s one of thy most popular apps in the world of course there are people like it.
You really need to try and get back in touch with reality
What if I told you that having absolutely no community third spaces is a result of car dependency?
Ever heard people complain that it’s impossible to just meet new people in real life because everyone everywhere is busy? It’s because we don’t have third spaces anymore, and one really big reason for that is car dependency. People really don’t like to drive, for the most part, and they’re generally not going to go drive to hang out somewhere; it becomes both dangerous and a special pain in the ass if alcohol enters the equation, as it does for many (but not all) third spaces. In short, if people go to a third space, it’s usually going to be one inside their own hyper local community or they won’t bother. These are all generalities, of course; miss me with anecdotal exceptions. Well, we keep our cities badly zoned and low density so that you don’t really have hyper local third spaces, you just get weird, semi-local, sanitized big box “third spaces” (massive sarcasm quotes) like Chili’s or Starbucks that don’t actually fill that role. They just want you to spend money and get out, there’s no actual tie to the community.
Having an outdoors that’s so utterly lifeless and hostile to anything that’s not a car that kids “hang out” on social media is neither normal nor desirable, unless you’re a tech exec, I guess.
What if I told you that having absolutely no community third spaces is a result of car dependency?
Then I’d suggest that if your only tool is a hammer, then every problem is going to look like a nail.
Like, I get it, fuck cars, but North American culture has been car dependant while having history of having the some of the highest third space membership, even in my own lifetime. While I accept it as a factor of the erosion, it’s unlikely to even be the primary factor.
Yeah a big part of third space culture where I grew up was things like “let’s go to x” followed by six people getting in a car with two seatbelts because the nearest “x” was like 20 miles away. And the car itself could be a meeting place if someone who barely interacts with your group hears about a trip and asks to jump in the car too
Yeah that works great assuming you have an already-established friend group within walking distance and parents that either have the time and will to chauffeur you around everywhere, or friend’s parents willing to do so with your own parents giving you the “freedom” to be driven around by people that are more than likely near-to-complete strangers to them. Which, in the age of helicopter parents, is a dying breed, and the first option almost completely excludes children of young, single, low-income, and otherwise struggling parents.
The decline in religion is more responsible for lack of third spaces than car centric cities.
That can be more or less true depending on the community. I imagine in the central and southeastern US, the decline of religion has been especially devastating in that regard. However you don’t see that pattern replicated in much more secular western Europe. In fact, they’re doing just fine for third spaces.
You must be an alcoholic.
I actually love to drive and wish I had a car to get to the games shop in a reasonable fashion for D&D or MTG where I’m only really expected to spend money for tournament entry because kicking ass isn’t free.
Barely touch the stuff myself, but I do consider myself practical. A lot of people like to drink in social settings, that’s neither endorsement nor criticism, but reality. I prefer taking my bike or walking so much more than driving, and it regularly bothers me that anywhere I could want to go is out of range or impractical/unsafe to reach by bike or pedestrian infrastructure. I don’t like driving, I find it expensive, a general pita, dangerous, ecologically damaging (not just CO2, driving just one kilometer can produce up to a trillion microplastic particles in the form of tire dust), and just really not that fun. But hey, to each their own. I just kinda wish we hadn’t built our urban environments to the exclusion of everyone but drivers.
We didn’t built our environments to exclude specifically non-drivers. We are all competing and driving is simply a massive advantage. It also means that places generally don’t have to be super close together to have business traffic and therefore benefit more from cheaper real estate.
yes that is why our suburbs are condensing into chains and big box stores and can barely support themselves, because driving is such a massive advantage to all businesses everywhere.
All sarcasm aside, please just watch this video: Not Just Bikes - How Suburban Development Makes American Cities Poorer [STO2]
If that interests you at all, I highly recommend watching the rest of the strong town series of videos from not just bikes
Nah. Because car transportation is massively subsidised and the automotive industry is so influential, modern cities were built for cars instead of people.
Sure, we weren’t “targeting non drivers”, but we were exclusively building for cars.
We’re now reaping what we sowed - cities are now hostile to pedestrians.
In the town where I grew up, there was a tiny park downtown where all the weird kids hung out. It was a funky little park which had a lot of character. Then they renovated it and I never see anyone there anymore when I go back.
Of course, they took out all the benches and they took out the trees and walls that gave a modicum of privacy.
There were always paranoid kids who thought the cops were watching the park from other buildings such as one of the bars across the street (college town) but getting rid of everything that made the park theirs and taking way any feeling of privacy killed it.
My daughter is 13 now. We’re in another town. There is so little for kids to do. She spends most of the time talking to her friends on Discord.
Boomers:
Kids don’t do anything anymore. They just sit on their phones inside all day.
Also boomers:
Hello, police? Yes, there is a group of teens at the park. I think they have drugs or sex stuff.
Does no one remember what being a kid was like? Most people, especially teens, don’t care enough about you to be plotting against you. Let people live their lives.
I forgot to say that the cops raided the park one day. The whole town was outraged, but it definitely didn’t help matters.
What a fucking braindead take.
This is fucking braindamaged, 3rd spaces are dying because of social media not some conspiracy to destroy them in order to make kids work.
Jesus christ, you really can tell when someone just hasn’t suffered enough in their lifetime.
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Everything out there for teens to do costs money… except the public library, which often has teen services.
Yet another reason to support your local public library.
Which is the fourth type of alienation Marx talked about.
The theoretical basis of alienation is that a worker invariably loses the ability to determine life and destiny when deprived of the right to think (conceive) of themselves as the director of their own actions; to determine the character of said actions; to define relationships with other people; and to own those items of value from goods and services, produced by their own labour.
For all the non-clickers
This is true.
It’s not like Tik Tok is doing things out of the kindness of their hearts, kids. They’re making money off of you. I bet if there was a meatspace location that tracked all your conversations and pushed ads to you they’d let you hang out there for free, too.
mmmmm…meat space.
One of the things the USA desperately needs is benches.
We eliminated all our benches in an attempt to get homeless people to disappear, but lo an behold they still exist.
It’s time to bring back public benches.
Nothing about this is true what the heck? Kids aren’t just banned from ever being anywhere, my friends and I hung out in parks and at restaurants and at eachothers’ houses all the time. And anyone who’s been on social media and thinks it’s an appropriate place for kids is very sus or naive. Even the most squeaky clean of sites are cesspools of bullying and grooming and right wing propaganda, and any use beyond looking at memes and catching up with irl friends should be supervised to some extent.
This post acts like we live in a dystopia where kids aren’t aren’t allowed to do anything and need social media to have any friends, which is only the case in really shitty circumstances where a kid is super lonely irl or somehow lives somewhere with no park or library or other good hangout spots. The banning of one specific app (which you can just get around with a vpn) isn’t going to disenfranchise all zoomers overnight, it’ll be a minor inconvenience people get over when they get a vpn or go to a different site. I just wish the people pushing to ban tik tok would apply the same pressure to American companies also pushing propaganda and doing shady stuff with your data
Also the new law is not taking tiktok away it’s just forcing the app to be sold to an american company
I can’t help but feel like all the “tiktok ban” discussion is straight up disinformation trying to scare kids
The confusing part of this is that they think this is a teen issue, like they see adults loitering everywhere. There’s logic behind why you don’t see them doing it because they have their own homes to hang out at but if four adults were hanging out by the door of a shop they wouldn’t get special treatment.
In most places adults gather outside of their homes you also need to pay for outside of parks
Hehe, there’s someone fearing about losing their dopamine source. Typical addict behavior.
This idea is called a “Third Place”. Your first place is home, the second place is work, and the third place is another place that isn’t the first 2. There used to be more of these like malls, plazas, parks, and others. In the last few decades, these places have gone away, had funding cut, or otherwise died. And like OP is saying, there are places that have been created to fill this gap, but they have been monetized :(
I realized that I treated Reddit as a third place. It was somewhere I felt like a community existed that I could talk to people and just hang out. It wouldn’t surprise me if people felt the same about Tik Tok or Facebook. So when one of those places is threatening to leave, it makes sense they feel there will be a void created.
Not sure what a good solution would be as this is a complicated issue.
Where are kids banned from hanging out? When did this happen???
A group of unsupervised teens probably can’t just hang out in a Wal-Mart. That’s probably the kind of thing this is about.
Why you’d want to hang out in a Wal-Mart is something I don’t understand, but different people have different ideas of fun.
I could see hanging out at Walmart if at least one of them is buying something. I don’t think anyone is allowed to just hang out in a store if they’re not buying something though lol
Yeah that’s the problem. Where do you go to just be?
Not fucking Walmart lol
Ya
We used to hang out at the park, or go to someone’s house, or go to the movies, or just drive around lol… I’m sure there were a few other places but I can’t think of what they were now. I guess those are unacceptable for today’s kids?
Snooze.
Wake me up when there’s something interesting to do.
So what you’re implying here is that in order for you to go somewhere to “just be”, there needs to be some sort of entertaining distraction made available to you at no cost? That seems like the literal opposite of “just being”
We raised $3’000’000 in my hometown to have the city build a skate park. Someone pocketed the money and gave us a quarter pipe, two rails, a box, and an incline in an old unused tennis court. You can fuck right off with your assessment of me.
It’s a war on teens!
More like a war on the poor if you wanna go there, which has a lot of overlap with teens. But also stores are not really meant to be hangout spaces.
They would not have been possible 20 years ago either
What a little drama queen.
