They’re not really engaging with you, just like Israel isn’t really interested in a dialogue about the situation. They just need you to think there’s a civil dialogue being had so that we don’t realize the need to stop them by force.
This is quite literally how they see the world. Every child in Rafa is this child. Every adult is a terrorist cell leader. Every refugee is going to want revenge. Every survivor is going to join the next revolt.
Its the same logic American colonists used on First Nations people, as they carved their way westward. Its the logic Serbians used as they butchered their way through Bosnia. Its the logic American soldiers used in Hadditha and Kandahar. Children are just tiny future evil adults and killing them is right because they are incapable of doing anything but wrong.
The going rate is 1:30 Israelis to Palestinians in revenge killing. For killing each Hamas militant they’re allowed to kill around 20 as collateral damage. 50% in Gaza are children so 10 kids per Hamas militant is okay according to the Israeli government.
They didn’t put the kids in with the terrorists, the terrorists did. They don’t get to dictate the terms of battle because it makes a small minority of westerners too sad to see any nuance or larger picture.
“They have to kill the children because there are terrorists next to them” is really not a moral defense for killing children. If anything, it makes it seem like the terrorists have a point.
“The terrorism came first” is also not a moral defense for killing children, sorry. I get that you really like the idea of killing people, but that doesn’t make it morally defensible.
I’m neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas, but I believe the correct answer is “same as in every other war”.
In other words, the maximum rate of Gazan casualties you will accept depends on the maximum rate of Axis casualties you would have accepted in WW2. That might be zero or it might be fairly high.
I didn’t say it was acceptable. It is no more acceptable than civilian deaths in Germany, Japan, or Chechnya.
People are often more concerned about the rate of deaths because Gaza is relatively small. But if you really are counting how many and not the rate, then the vast majority of wars were worse than Gaza. The number of civilian deaths in Dresden alone is comparable to those in Gaza. Over 150,000 civilians have died in Iraq.
And as I said, some people find one civilian death to be unacceptable, others are willing to accept more than one. I’ve never met anyone who is willing to accept “any amount”.
Interesting that you keep saying ‘civilian death’ and not ‘child.’ Seems like we’re talking about two very different things.
Maybe so. But personally, I believe that all civilian deaths are equally tragic whether of a child, an old man, or a mother. In fact, I would object if someone said “X dead women is acceptable, but X dead children is unacceptable”, because personally I believe that whatever X you choose should be age-independent. YMMV
What worm ate your brain and made you think that is the choice of sides here?? Fighting for Palestinian emancipation has nothing to do with being pro-Hamas you dingus.
Those are the two sides that are currently at war. They are both religiously motivated right-wing regimes, and I support neither one.
I’m also not fighting for Palestinian “emancipation”, for the same reason I’m not fighting to “emancipate” Istanbul from Turks or New York from Americans.
If Israel were ONLY attacking Hamas, you’d be correct.
The problem is they are insistant on attacking, bombing, killing, and displacing all of the innocent Palestinians in Gaza as well, because they have been at war with Palestine, not Hamas, for generations now.
It’s a dumb question. Hamas puts the kids in harm’s way, Hamas and their loyal supporters. They love nothing more than their own kids dead from Israeli weapons, it’s the only way they will win this war, tricking well meaning people such as yourself.
800,000 people left Rafah safely. Blame Hamas for 0.006% of them being killed. What did Hamas do this time, tell them the evacuation was fake or hold them against their will?
More likely they just indoctrinated them over decades, convinced them it’s patriotic and holy to sit inside a room with terrorists to be used as fodder for Qatari and Iranian state media to try to drum of western support. At some point they realized this is more effective than suicide bombings.
If you ask me, I would sacrifice every last one of them in order to eradicating hamas(Isis). Western civilization/values are worth more than the children killed in the hands of hamas(Isis).
I sincerely hope you aren’t a parent with that attitude about children.
Now I will direct this question back at you, What is the maximum number of children who need to die before hamas(Isis) surrender?
Zero. Israel should not kill one single child. If they can’t defeat Hamas without killing children, then maybe Hamas has a point.
That’s an interesting way to excuse virtually any war crime imaginable if Israel chooses to commit it. “It’s Hamas’ fault that Israel covered Gaza in anthrax spores, they’re the reason Israel did it.”
I keep asking pro-Israel people here on Lemmy what the maximum number of children that they feel it is necessary to sacrifice in this war.
I get two answers, usually both together:
And they expect me to accept those answers as if they were true.
They’re not really engaging with you, just like Israel isn’t really interested in a dialogue about the situation. They just need you to think there’s a civil dialogue being had so that we don’t realize the need to stop them by force.
You’ve got to see this from the Israeli perspective: An inside look at a terrorist group’s summer camp for kids
This is quite literally how they see the world. Every child in Rafa is this child. Every adult is a terrorist cell leader. Every refugee is going to want revenge. Every survivor is going to join the next revolt.
Its the same logic American colonists used on First Nations people, as they carved their way westward. Its the logic Serbians used as they butchered their way through Bosnia. Its the logic American soldiers used in Hadditha and Kandahar. Children are just tiny future evil adults and killing them is right because they are incapable of doing anything but wrong.
You had me in the first half.
The going rate is 1:30 Israelis to Palestinians in revenge killing. For killing each Hamas militant they’re allowed to kill around 20 as collateral damage. 50% in Gaza are children so 10 kids per Hamas militant is okay according to the Israeli government.
According to some people here, infinite kids per militant is okay to maintain Israeli security.
And I have no idea why they think a state that believes killing large numbers of children is acceptable is worth securing.
They didn’t put the kids in with the terrorists, the terrorists did. They don’t get to dictate the terms of battle because it makes a small minority of westerners too sad to see any nuance or larger picture.
“They have to kill the children because there are terrorists next to them” is really not a moral defense for killing children. If anything, it makes it seem like the terrorists have a point.
The terrorism came first.
“The terrorism came first” is also not a moral defense for killing children, sorry. I get that you really like the idea of killing people, but that doesn’t make it morally defensible.
Yes, there is no moral defense for hamas’s decision to let these kids die.
Ah, so now Hamas is letting children die from Israeli bombs and bullets.
Boy do you do some pretzels trying to avoid connecting the victim with the killer.
Fucking hell. What is your damage, exactly?
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I’m neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas, but I believe the correct answer is “same as in every other war”.
In other words, the maximum rate of Gazan casualties you will accept depends on the maximum rate of Axis casualties you would have accepted in WW2. That might be zero or it might be fairly high.
Not the same as in every war.
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/death-toll-children-gaza-israel-rcna143269
That’s cherry picking.
The civilian casualty rate in Gaza is about the same as the Second Chechen War and less than on the East Front, in North Korea, or in Vietnam.
Since I asked how many children and not the rate of children, I’m pretty sure a count of children is not cherry picking.
But I guess your answer is that any amount of children killed in a war is acceptable and nothing to be complaining about.
I didn’t say it was acceptable. It is no more acceptable than civilian deaths in Germany, Japan, or Chechnya.
People are often more concerned about the rate of deaths because Gaza is relatively small. But if you really are counting how many and not the rate, then the vast majority of wars were worse than Gaza. The number of civilian deaths in Dresden alone is comparable to those in Gaza. Over 150,000 civilians have died in Iraq.
And as I said, some people find one civilian death to be unacceptable, others are willing to accept more than one. I’ve never met anyone who is willing to accept “any amount”.
Interesting that you keep saying ‘civilian death’ and not ‘child.’ Seems like we’re talking about two very different things.
Then see the person who replied to me who says it’s worth killing any amount to get rid of Hamas.
Maybe so. But personally, I believe that all civilian deaths are equally tragic whether of a child, an old man, or a mother. In fact, I would object if someone said “X dead women is acceptable, but X dead children is unacceptable”, because personally I believe that whatever X you choose should be age-independent. YMMV
What worm ate your brain and made you think that is the choice of sides here?? Fighting for Palestinian emancipation has nothing to do with being pro-Hamas you dingus.
Those are the two sides that are currently at war. They are both religiously motivated right-wing regimes, and I support neither one.
I’m also not fighting for Palestinian “emancipation”, for the same reason I’m not fighting to “emancipate” Istanbul from Turks or New York from Americans.
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If Israel were ONLY attacking Hamas, you’d be correct.
The problem is they are insistant on attacking, bombing, killing, and displacing all of the innocent Palestinians in Gaza as well, because they have been at war with Palestine, not Hamas, for generations now.
They are at war with Palestine just as Americans were at war with Germany and Japan. Many civilians were killed and displaced there, too.
Palestine didn’t attack them, Hamas did.
Hamas is the government of Gaza
Tell that to the millions of Palestinians homeless and starving thanks to Israel.
It’s a dumb question. Hamas puts the kids in harm’s way, Hamas and their loyal supporters. They love nothing more than their own kids dead from Israeli weapons, it’s the only way they will win this war, tricking well meaning people such as yourself.
800,000 people left Rafah safely. Blame Hamas for 0.006% of them being killed. What did Hamas do this time, tell them the evacuation was fake or hold them against their will?
More likely they just indoctrinated them over decades, convinced them it’s patriotic and holy to sit inside a room with terrorists to be used as fodder for Qatari and Iranian state media to try to drum of western support. At some point they realized this is more effective than suicide bombings.
Ah, “indoctrinated” children deserve to die. I see.
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I sincerely hope you aren’t a parent with that attitude about children.
Zero. Israel should not kill one single child. If they can’t defeat Hamas without killing children, then maybe Hamas has a point.
Amazing how hamas can go into Israel, murder children, then get asylum by hiding among its own children.
By your logic I can grab a couple of babies, shoot up school, and I should be untouchable as long as I have a baby vest?
Are you honestly suggesting that the IDF has absolutely no culpability when it comes to killing children? All dead children in Gaza are Hamas’ fault?
Because otherwise, you don’t understand what you are calling my logic.
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So you’re saying that even if an IDF soldier shoots a child in the face, it’s Hamas’ fault? Really?
Yes, because hamas is the reason for this soldier being there.
That’s an interesting way to excuse virtually any war crime imaginable if Israel chooses to commit it. “It’s Hamas’ fault that Israel covered Gaza in anthrax spores, they’re the reason Israel did it.”