For me, it’s pretty clear that police and prisons reinforce class society and are things that factor into proletarianization. Therefore there can be no socialism without abolition. A corollary states that socialist projects that reinstituted police and prisons (gulags and checka anyone?) couldn’t be socialist because by using police and prisons it reinforced proletarianization and class relations.
What do you think?
I’m not an abolitionist because “abolition” doesn’t go far enough. It’s no accident that abolitionists mostly talk about “abolishing” visibly repressive arms of the state but not so much the nation-state system in its entirety, or the European cultural base it rests on. Most of them shy away from even fighting to abolish the nation-state they live in because then they wouldn’t be able to demand policy changes from it.
That doesn’t sound right. The abolitionists I follow absolutely do want to abolish not just policing and incarceration but everything that stands in the way of true safety and what causes people to commit crimes. These include cisheteropatriarchy, settler-colonialism, racism, capitalism, heck many even want to abolish the state.
Who are the abolitionists you follow? By using the word “follow” I’m guessing you’re talking about highly visible or well-known abolitionists, but correct me if I’m wrong.
I’m an abolitionist and an anarchist and I’m not sure I agree with your analysis. I know of anarchists who still envision prisons or something like them, and I view my abolitionism as opposing that even in an anarchist society.
I mean…I wouldn’t expect an abolitionist to agree with an analysis that says abolition doesn’t cut it.