Whatever happens on my browser is client side, which is hardware and software I own. I can make what I own do what I want. It’s a right.
It’s like Google saying that I can’t skim a magazine in my home, and that I must read the ads. Google can do what they want server-side, and I’ll do what I want client-side.
They’re not saying you can’t have an adblocker. They’re saying their software will try not to serve you their data if you do, or at least make it inconvenient.
You have a right to your computer. You do not have a right to their service.
That’s exactly what I said, yeah
Me after reading the 1st comment: “OK. True. Fair.” Me after reading the 2nd comment: “OK. True. Fair.” Me after reading the 3rd comment: “OK. Also true. Also fair.”
There was a rabbi arbitrating a dispute between neighbours. One of them complained that the other one gathers apples that fall off his apple tree and into the other neighbour’s garden. “Those are my apples grown on my tree. He’s stealing them!”
“You’re right,” says the rabbi. But the other neighbour counters.
“But the branches of the tree are above my property. If he doesn’t want them to fall on my garden, he can cut off the branch. But he lets them fall into my garden making them my apples.”
“You’re right,” says the rabbi and adjourns the diapute to be able to think about it. He’s at his wit’s end and tells the whole story to his wife when he gets home.
“That doesn’t make sense. They can’t both be right.”
“You’re right.”
And as a service provider, they can choose to degrade your experience. It goes both ways.
Except they want to send you videos. The power is with you, the viewer. Without you, advertisers will have no reason for buying ads. Google can’t collect your data either. Realise that you have this power. Youtube is not like electricity or clean water. We can live without it if push comes to the shove.
They don’t want to send us videos, they want to serve us ads and annoy us into buying Youtube Premium, which someone using adblocker won’t see, or need. From their point of view they would win either way - if they successfully block adblockers it either converts us into ad watchers, premium subscribers, or we fuck off and stop using their bandwidth.
It’s funny because I pay for premium and have noticed a worse experience since this was revealed. They don’t seem to check if a user has adblock and pays.
They don’t seem to check if a user has adblock and pays.
They definitely seem to have checks in place for it. I have Family Premium and so far no issues at all.
Edit: to clarify, not a fan of any of this. Just saying it does work for me
Weird. It’s not happening to me today. Maybe it was something else.
Well, I don’t pay for premium, and I use an adblocker, and I haven’t had any problems. Not having a problem doesn’t prove anything if they’re only targeting a subset of their users…
The article says that this isn’t happening for all users, which indicates that they’re still experimenting with it and haven’t fully rolled it out yet.
I do have the issue when I’m logged out
To be fair, what they want is to make money off of you, be it through metadata or through advertising. It’s just that sending you videos happens to be the model which they use to get the metadata or advertising income.
You have no value to advertisers if they can’t serve you ads. By not doing so, they’ll also cut down on bandwidth costs, so it’s a double positive for them.
You have no value to advertisers if they can’t serve you ads. By not doing so, they’ll also cut down on bandwidth costs, so it’s a double positive for them.
When you take your comment to its logical end though your comment makes no sense, as hence there’s now no one to watch the videos and earn money from them doing so.
You can’t force someone to consume your content, and if you earn money by people consuming your content, then the power is ultimately with them.
Plus, all this discussion, we’re assuming that serving ads is the only way that Google can make money off you when watching the videos, which is not true. They can do the same kind of things they do with Gmail and make money from that.
Yep, they can send me 500s if they want to, too
Technically 400s would be more appropriate here. :)
Response codes only matter to good-faith actors
If the service degrades to far due to using ad blockers then I’ll just stop watching anything on YouTube. Easy.
Okay then. That was always allowed.
Umm, ok. You were not making them any money before, when you were blocking their ads, why would they care if you left?
Because the big channels will get a significant drop in views which lowers their sponsor pay and willingness to work with them.
I think you’re overestimating how many people care enough about this.
Remember when killing password sharing was gonna be the death of Netflix, and then they saw a significant increase in subscriptions and profits?
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Google can do what they want server-side
Sure, like not sending you videos. 🤔
Client side DRM is coming.
They’re mostly there on Android already.
You forgot to mention it’s also coming to all Chromium based browsers (i.e. Chrome, Edge, Brave, etc) as well in the form of ManifestV3
Manifest V3 doesn’t really have the real client side DRM. It just has the ad-blocker breaking API changes. The real DRM will be whatever comes of the abandoned Web Environment Integrity API. (It’s not really abandoned just shifted over to only Android WebView.)
Couldn’t they fork Brave and have both a current and a ManifestV3 version?
Usually Brave already strips away invasive/unfavolrable stuff from Google before releasing. OTOH, browsers with inbuilt adblockers won’t be affected by MV3, as the latter only applyes to extensions. Inbuilt adblockers are part of the browser itself and aren’t constrained by whatever rule Google may want to put in place.
That’s ok. Us nerds have been defeating DRM in its many forms for decades. This will be no different.
Not really true for video games. Plenty of popular games still with uncracked denuvo…
You can, but as a part of doing what they want serverside they can ask for some kind of proof you don’t have an adblocker on the server-side, you can reverse engineer that and spoof the checks and it becomes an arms race just like we have now… You’re effectively just saying the status quo is a-ok with you
I don’t personally enjoy the status quo, but they’re not obligated to serve me any videos if they don’t want to. However, if they have given me media to consume on my devices, it’s up to me to decide how I consume the media that was already delivered.
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Let’s just hope they don’t start injecting their ads into the video stream itself
Remember when every billionaire apologist was telling us how no one would do shit like this when net neutrality was being gutted?
Not just YouTube. Now I have to say I’m not a robot when searching from my phone because I dare use a VPN that’s not theirs.
This is because scammers and criminals often use VPNs. They actually should be doing that.
Do you know the old saying:
if privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.Just because people might do stuff with things that isn’t intended or even illegal doesn’t mean you should be banning said things.
Otherwise we’d be in a world where we have no kitchen knives, axes, wrenches, food, money, cars, planes, ships, bikes, hands, feet - you know what I mean?And guns.
You know what else spammers and criminals often do? Breathe. We need to make that more difficult.
Straight to slippery slope fallacy. Cute.
I still remember Ajit Pai’s dumbass teeth as he smugly insisted that you’ll still be able to “‘gram’ your food” before covering a Chipotle bowl in a mountain of flaming hot Cheetos and an ocean of Sriracha. And that was one of the least irritating moments of that video. That whole fucking video was basically “you can still waste time with your bread, circuses, and creature comforts, you fucking peasants, now shut up and let the corporations do their thing” while ignoring every legitimate criticism of the decision to gut NN.
DAE nET nEUtrAliTY?!?!
I don’t know why they think this change is going to get anyone to switch.
5 seconds of nothing is still way better than a minute-long ad
They want to sell their Premium subscription. They want you to compare 5 seconds of nothing versus “0” seconds of nothing. That being said, I think uBlock Origin with up-to-date filter lists completely eliminated this delay for me.
At work, we can’t log into personal accounts. And my job isn’t going to buy YouTube premium. So now any video tutorials on YouTube is getting impossible to watch.
This has now triggered a bunch of lazy developers into action in my entire company. Even our internal newsletters are explaining how to use adblock.
I haven’t seen any issues or ads on Youtube across all devices, except my LG tv. I don’t doubt they’re being scummy but the workarounds are working.
I use https://github.com/webosbrew/youtube-webos on my LG TV, to watch without ads. I have to sideload it via the CLI tools, but it works. Sometimes I have to reinstall it (I suppose some TV update screws up), but for my partner watching without ads is worth the random sporadic breakage.
I am so worried about breaking it, how would you rate it in terms of ease?
The procedure to install is very easy, you can also always uninstall it and reinstall the official one, I don’t think it’s irreversible in any way. Note that I am talking about side loading using developer mode. Rooting the TV via an exploit can brick your TV instead.
Edit: The procedure is basically described in https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-started/developer-mode-app.
I realize I said very simple, but I guess it depends on your familiarity with tech and command line tools.
I have no problem trying it, I just didn’t want to brick it is all. I am tech literate but it wouldn’t be in my hobbies so I don’t have much in the way of skillset. Anything I’ve done has been with step by step and tools 😂
Oh no, I get it, I was quite scared the first time I messed with it, and I cursed LG plenty for not letting me install safely what I want on my own TV. I found this technique to be quite safe though. You basically uninstall the official YouTube app, then do the loading and you can always remove the app and reinstall the official one.
I hope I didn’t sound condescending, I just realized that I had been a bit too quick labeling something easy, while I understand that for some other person reading, using a CLI tool is in itself a new thing. Good luck :)
They can try selling me their Premium subscription again when they start suggesting more than one or two videos (if that) on their homepage that actually interest me.
Not that I’ll ever pay for it, anyway. But get me something that I’ll actually click on to get served ads before trying to sell me something to get rid of them.
are people that impatient
Most people? Absolutely.
people ._.
5 seconds of nothing
It’s an eternity of nothing for me now so yeah I switched. To invidious.
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Fuck Google and YouTube, but the title is misleading, and it’s an article from three weeks ago. I’m quite surprised that this post is so upvoted, and nobody else flagged this before.
I just read the article and I don’t see how it’s misleading. Google introduced a delay before video starts for adblock users
But the register wasn’t able to reproduce it, and goes on to suggest it might be testing the capability with a random subset of users.
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Genuine question (because I’m looking too): without YouTube, where would you go to watch all the diverse videos they host? It’s a really difficult business model. Look at how expensive Floatplane is to the user. Luke and Linus have talked about how difficult it is to run on WAN Show, too: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1mZrsunukUA
A fediverse platform would almost definitely be a worse experience in terms of speed and video quality because residential internet (at least in the majority of the US) just doesn’t have the upload to support multiple HD video streams. Therefore, it’s not really possible to host at home; a basic server at Hetzner could probably do a dozen or two direct streams with no conversion, but storage is kind of expensive just because there’s so much content, and then there’s the need for moderation, high uptime, security, “good” UX design…
Then of course on top of all that when you don’t have creators getting paid by ad revenue, fewer will be able to spend the time on production quality because they’ll be doing it after work, so the length and/or quality suffers.
I dunno dude, I really hope someone smarter than me has figured this out, but it’s a tough problem.
You are correct. Fundamentally, it’s the hosting and storage issue that’s the crux of all this.
And the only choices available are another corporation hosting and paying/passing on the cost, or all of us hosting on a peer-to-peer network, which will be slow, but doable.
Having said that, the peer hosting method would work though, and shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. We just shouldn’t expect the same level of service we do from YouTube or any corporation hosting videos.
Interesting, it came up in news feeds on other sites. I’ll check more in the future, that’s the first time I’ve had that happen.
I wonder if there are bot farms for Lemmy/Fediverse… There must be
FAKECIENT OLDS!
By doing that you’re wasting bandwidth on all the CDNs that hosts ALL your filter lists. Updating the Quick fixes list should be enough. (Which updates every 5 hours automatically on uBO 1.54).
How to manually update Quick Fixes (Manual updates push back automatic updates.)
- Click 🛡️ uBO’s icon
- the ⚙ Dashboard button
- the Filter lists pane
- the 🕘 clock icon next to the uBlock filters – Quick fixes list
- the 🔃 Update now button.
mate, that won’t even scratch a single server’s bandwidth, much less that of a CDN.
@Frellwit@lemmy.world is right, the following FAQ is from the uBO’s YouTube Mega Thread on reddit.
How often should I manually update filter lists? Can I somehow automate this?
YouTube filters are in a list named
uBlock filters - Quick fixes. The list updates every 12 hours. It’s the only list you might need to update - only if this page says it’s fixed, but you’re getting the message.If you’re not getting detected. Don’t update. Current estimated cost for just ONE of uBO’s CDNs: HERE. This is with other lists updating every few days. uBO’s not a company, it’s a volunteer project using free services, which have limits that we cannot cross.
completely different scenario from a manual purge though
And freetube is making it so much better.
Something I didn’t even realize I wanted was to not have some eyeball-pulling algorithm recommending things to me. It’s lovely.
That’s why I’ve been using YouTube without logging in and if using in browser, I have the cookies autodelete after I close the page to start new each time.
It never really recommended me what I wanted anyway. I guess the algorithm doesn’t work on me.
What freetube?
Google it and join us in video paradise
What about sponsor block?
Freetube has Sponsorblock built-in.
Most of the channels I watch with inline sponsor roll from the creator, they do a good job, and I am entertained by it.
Obtrusive ads are frustrating.
Perfectly integrated, entertaining, on-brand ads from creators I appreciate? No problem.
You have the option to disable sponsorblock in freetube.
I don’t care. I was giving you the opportunity to inform others about something you think is cool. You blew it.
I mean they’ve also consistently been making YouTube worse for everyone not using Adblock, so it’s only fair.
Sounds like its beginning to reach the point someone may decide to code an add-on or extension that adds a “F*** YouTube” button to a Youtube Video page where if you click that button, it would take you over to the equivalent YewTu.be page of the video currently being viewed.
We’ll still figure out ways to get around ads. So suck it Google.
As a premium subscriber, it’s definitely gotten worse for me over the last month. Whatever they’re doing on the back end, it’s pretty terrible.
I’m not sure what the hell is going on at YouTube but I’ve noticed a significant drop in decent videos being recommended, and a huge uptick in videos I’ve already seen showing up at the front of the feed. Probs gonna drop it when the price picks up and just go to nebula.
Why are you paying your abuser
There’s a ton of educational content only on YT and so it’s a part of our homeschool curriculum. My kids were getting a lot of super inappropriate ads a while back, so I got premium to avoid all ads.
Stockholm syndrome
Stockholm syndrome was made up to cover for police incompetence
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Here’s a springboard article, if you want to do your own research.
The woman, based on whom the term was coined (the psychiatrist never even talked to her) wrote an autobiography “I became Stockholm Syndrome”.
There’s also the works of Allan Wade, a Canadian psychologist, who has talked to the victims throughout his career.
Basically when you’re at the whims of an armed lunatic, you might cozy up to them in order to appease them. The victims were also really afraid of the police coming in and shooting them. Which is pretty justified, considering the police couldn’t even identify the perpetrator before conceding on his demands and bringing in his prison buddy.
The guy with a gun, whom they’ve been talking to for days and has not hurt them in the slightest looked much less dangerous than the impending doom of the police barging in and shooting the wrong person.
*Laughs with RSS feeds, Invidious redirects, Newpipe and Sponsorblock.
WHAT?! I didn’t believe it for a second when the whole planet immediately noticed at the same time!
But then again, they DID admit it. Which means they have nothing to hide! And that’s transparent, and bold. We should reward companies for doing the right thing. Not only criticize them when they didn’t do wrong!
Tinkle Fingerent!
Youtube should add a tip Google button.
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YouTube premium exists
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How’s that different from purchasing YouTube Premium?
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was an obvious attempt at humour
One thing I’ve learned from my time here on Lemmy, never assume anything when you’re replying, be explicit, even bordering on legalese, when discussing with someone else here.
People and conflict bots will nitpick the fact of things not said and use it against you.
At the very least conclude your subtle joke comment with a “/s”, the universal signal for “please don’t yell at me, I was just joking around”.
Is lemmy your first social media ever to use? Random people on the Internet don’t get jokes or even worse, they intentionally ignore it
Is lemmy your first social media ever to use?
The level of true insightfulness of your reply comment is so incredibly powerful and accurate (and wise!), that its hardly readable by a normal human being. /s
Random people on the Internet don’t get jokes or even worse, they intentionally ignore it
Well, its random, so that means some do ignore them, and others do not. /shrug
(Just being playful, but in the future, you may want to click on a user’s name and see their posting history, before declaring them a novice of forums.)
Fuck YouTube
The CEO said shareholders needs to be appeased by making new sacrifice
Are they making it worse than ads make it?
Not yet!
They are a business that makes money off of ads. Nothing to see here.
