Honda says making cheap electric vehicles is too hard, ends deal with GM::The platform was to use GM’s Ultium batteries.
So, like all the others, while China will produce cheap eCars. Look, I don’t want to predict the future, but if I only have 20-30k for a new car, I simply physically can’t buy a 60k SUV. You can’t jump into a saturated market of other car companies, who almost all seam to want only expensive eCars and expect a good outcome. There’s only so much money in the pockets of people and only so much people are willing to pay for a used eCar, if it needs expensive battery replacement soon. Not going to happen. Build cheaper cars or fail.
Electric cars don’t normally need a battery replacement during the car’s lifetime. If the battery needs to be replaced, the car has usually already been running longer than most ICE cars ever would. The used market for EVs used to be pretty dire, with little supply and awful pricing. But it’s slowly getting better. But of course the fact remains, that there is currently a lot of demand for cheap EVs and little supply. The Chinese are gearing up to eat up that part of the market.
What?
Show me a battery that goes 200k - 300k.
Just because the average consumer is an idiot and replaces cars long before then doesn’t mean the vehicles can’t go that far.
Every car my family has owned for the last 30 years has gone at least 200k, some 300k+. My current 2005 vehicle is at 270k, and I expect many more years from it, barring an accident. Our newest vehicle is from 2016, and is approaching 100k. An electric vehicle would be needing a battery soon, while all mine needs is an oil change, and perhaps a timing belt for $50 (to be fair, I’ll probably spend $250 and replace the water pump, idlers, and primary belt while I’m there. Last time was 100k miles ago).
I can keep you updated on my own EV ownership if you’d like. I bought a '22 Chevy Bolt brand new for $27k a hair over 12 months ago and so far it’s got 51,000 miles on the odometer and the battery has lost only 10 miles of range compared to the 240 it came with, which is such a small loss it might actually be due to the wind or temps on my test since I do my range tests on the freeway during road trips. Despite driving on average more than 137 miles every single day in this EV during the summer, rain, winter, and multiple snow storms (yay Midwest -_-), the battery seems to be holding up pretty well. My plan is to drive the car for at least 5 years before considering a replacement, at which point I should have between 230-270k on the odometer. The only maintenance items on the car are tires every 50-60k, new coolant in the coolant loops every 150k, brakes every 100k or whenever they wear out (which varies wildly based on how an EV is driven), and wipers + wiper fluid as needed.
My goal here isn’t to put you on blast or call you a liar because skepticism is fair. I’m just sharing my own experience so far with a car that runs on EV tech last updated in 2015. I was pretty worried the “abuse” I’d be putting it through with my driving would cause it to have problems or perform worse than it should, but so far it’s doing great and the battery isn’t any worse for wear than other Bolts who have published their numbers online.
Personally I’m really looking forward to finding out how well the 2022+ Tesla Model 3s do with the new LFP battery because supposedly they’ll be a big improvement over the NCM batteries they have been using (which my car also uses) when it comes to longevity and being left alone for really long periods of time (months, years).
The next Chevy bolt will also have LFP batteries, so they should have similar performance. I think the benefits of LFP outweigh the NCM and that they have a higher life expectancy, can charge to a higher rate with less degradation, although they don’t like really cold weather.
And if Chevy actually gives drivers the option to manually precondition the battery, your last point would be much less of a negative.
EV batteries are lasting longer than expected.
Also, when accounting for maintenance over, EV’s can be cheaper over time even with a battery replacement. They don’t need oil, engine coolest, or transmission fluid. There’s a whole life support system for ICE cars that EVs just don’t have, and what replaces it tends to last indefinitely if there are no manufacturing defects or have an abusive owner. Brake maintenance is also reduced; they need the fluid changed, but regen braking tends to reduce the need to replace pads. Manufactures were already seeing pads and rotors on hybrids last nearly the life of the vehicle.
It all adds up, and while the $10k battery cost years down the line scares people as one big number, it often ends up being less than what you would have spent on maintenance over the same time period.
Finally, the batteries may not be worthless at the end of that time. Putting them in houses for backup power is often still feasible. You’re just not getting the same range out of them anymore.
Aside from the Leaf, which does not have any sort of battery temperature management, I wouldn’t expect an EV to need a battery so soon.
Teslas can easily make it to 200k miles at while retaining >80% of peak capacity, according to
.
Most of the other brands don’t have enough vehicles approaching that milestone that I could find data on.
Yeah, I don’t know why you think this, but there are plenty of EV taxis out there with 200k miles on them.
And they don’t need oil changes, timing belts, spark plugs, idlers, water pumps or primary belts. And their brakes last easily twice as long thanks to regenerative braking.
So, after about 300k miles, you recycle your battery pack and get a 3rd party one installed for $5k-$10k and go for another 200k miles.
My 2008 Prius has ticked over 200k with the original battery pack. Sure it’s only a hybrid instead of a full on EV, but it’s going strong.
My longest lived ICE car was my Delta 88. 261k before the second shitty GM transmission gave out. The first one died at 180k and was slippy from 120k.
EVs in the US generally come with an 8 year/100k mile battery warranty.
That being said, most of the failed batteries are with early gen Nissan Leafs.
Battery degradation is by and large a non-issue, and newer battery chemistries will easily allow 1 million miles with ~70% battery health.
Why does it have to be new? Whats wrong with a nearly new car that is only a couple of years old? Warranty, at least in Europe covers the major components like body shell and battery for 7 to 10 years now.
Part of reducing the impact of cars to the environment is making them last longer and EVs have the opportunity to be fully refurbished at what would have been the end of their normal lifespan to better than new. Replacing the battery pack for a more modern and denser version, replacing the motor for a more efficient and powerful one, even replace the entertainment unit with a more modern one. Sure, this is expensive but you are basically getting a new car for considerably less than a new car.
While I personally think Musk can eat a bag of dicks, the ability to upcycle early Teslas using Tesla parts is very welcome. It needs to be legally mandated that manufacturers have to offer this and end the cycle of scrapping cars.
What you described is already done with ICE vehicles. Engines and transmissions are rebuilt all the time. Even cars that are totaled are typically given a second life.
Ultimately it’s the vehicle’s body and frame that determine when it’s at the end of it’s life. You’re not going to put a new battery in a tesla with a rusted out frame.
Arguably the lifespan could be worse for EVs since replacing the batteries is so expensive (more than a typical engine rebuild) that many probably won’t be willing to put that much money into an old vehicle.
Rarely happens though in practice with ICE cars, average age of a car being scrapped in the UK is about 13 years, average age on the road is about 8 years. Car lifespan has been increasing in Western Europe as car reliability has improved. In general Cars do not rust as quickly as they used to, obviously there will be individual Friday afternoon shit boxes or even entire ranges as with Merc between the 90s and early 2000s. But in general they are light years better than pre 2000s and especially pre 1980s when they could start rusting their first year.
In practice the cost to repair vs. value of the car tends to dictate its lifespan in Europe, it becomes cheaper to replace the car than fix it. This is the cycle we need to end.
Current it tends to be limited to enthusiasts to upgrade the capabilities of ICE cars such as more powerful or efficient engine, etc. I do not see this market changing with EVs, you can already by performance upgrades for Teslas for example, even if I wouldn’t touch these 3rd party performance upgrades with a ten foot pole (outside of things like brakes and suspension).
Retrofitting a much more efficient engine to a modern ICE car is difficult, it requires all sorts of other upgrades to enable it and manufacturers have been busy trying to lock people out, see BMW and their ECU encryption. Retrofitting a larger battery, particularly to earlier cars is reasonably trivial in comparison and the old battery still has value, whereas a knackered gearbox/engine/ecu combo is worth considerably less for the average car.
This should be similar to a right to repair law for EVs that also enables them to take advantage of the latest tech.
I’m the US the average age in the road is over 12 years and the average retirement age is about 20 years now. We don’t have any required extended warranty rules but do require that OEMs produce parts for at least 10 years. Most parts for most vehicles are available from the aftermarket vendors though.
We have similar parts availability but when a job costs £1500 and the replacement car is £1500 with newer tyres and brake discs most just opt for scrapping as it doesn’t make sense to keep the average car.
If you savvy you break the old car yourself and sell off the working parts for more than the value of the whole car.
Final owners just run the car till it breaks or fails it’s MoT and is no longer road worthy then scrap it for a new one. Cars just depreciate faster than they become unrepairable for large amounts of money (see the costs for a proper restore or retromod).
COVID fucked with depreciation for a while with 7sed being more expensive than new for white goods cars but that’s over now and depreciation is huge again.
In my experience, at least in the US, most people aren’t getting rid of their car because a new car is cheaper, they do it because the cost to repair the old car exceeds the current car’s value. This is actually a very poor justification for buying a new car but it happens all the time. People get scared when they get a high repair bill and jump into a multi year auto loan costing 250+/month.
Cars are expensive here though so you’re unlikely to buy new for much less than 20k and the reality is most consumers aren’t buying base model cheap compact cars.
Of course you may be able to buy used cheaper but people who are afraid of repair bills aren’t usually rushing out to replace one old car with another.
It depends on if the car is about to enter an expensive period or not, if its not been looked after and/or is an unreliable model then when one thing goes it will be quickly followed by a whole bunch of other repairs. Cars can rapidly become a money pit and sunk cost fallacy applies very strongly to them. Its usually better to be dispassionate and cut your losses, especially if you can make money back breaking the old car yourself.
New vs. old is a difficult one. If you cannot work on the car yourself then having a fixed cost for a car that all non consumables are covered by the dealer can be very attractive. Plus you can offset some of the consumables costs for the first year or two as they will be brand new on the car. If you have the skills, tools, and time to do it yourself then usually its cheaper for a second hand car assuming you can choose a good one thats been looked after. Far too many people who think they know better know fuck all when it comes to choosing a good used car.
This was very much me when I was buying my first car. I was talked into not paying finance on a nearly new car and instead buying my dads old car that had just failed its MoT. I spent a few hundred fixing it myself and getting it back through the MoT. I then did about 50k in it over two or so years but I had to work on that fucker almost every week and spent thousands doing so. With hindsight the couple of hundred on the nearly new car would have worked out about the same cost and I would have saved hundreds of man hours of labor.
I think that there is a lot more mileage in taking a good old car and converting it to be an EV. Its not going to fit every use case but it is going to replace a lot of the old knackered rubbish that is in older ICE cars and is going to cost significantly less to run for the next decade of use before it needs another big refurb. My dream is to get an early Range Rover and do this to it.
As trade with North America and China degraded that was one of the worst casualties.
China has a booming market for small EVs. It is not an understatement to say they are years ahead of us in that regard.
What is it North America? Because you said I’m not allowed to have public transit and now I’m not even allowed to have the type of car I want.
Oh boy do I love freedom.
Oil companies invented a psyop in North America centered around male insecurity with their masculinity. That’s why the best selling vehicle in North America is a massive gas guzzling pickup truck that the average person can’t come close to affording but drives anyway.
They’ve also targeted maternal instincts. You can’t get a mother to look at a car unless the hood is taller than someone else’s child.
Also car seats are enormous and don’t fit well into compact cars unless the passenger side seat is all the way up and maybe not even then. Good luck if you have more than one kid that needs a car seat too.
Who said anything about compacts? A modern station wagon would work great inplace of an SUV.
I’m just explaining why parents might opt for a larger car especially if they have multiple children. It used to be mini vans, now it’s SUVs or crossovers which are probably not much bigger than station wagons.
They’re needlessly taller. That’s why I mentioned the hood height. You lose fuel economy and you make it more dangerous for kids crossing at cross walks.
I like when people drive lifted pickups without a speck of dirt in the bed. I call those vehicles the Pedestrian Killer 9000
Emotional Support Vehicle
Small dick emotional support
Pavement princess
I call them small dick compensators
The male safe space? :-)
Emissions regulations apply differently to vehicles of different sizes.
Remember Hummers? I swear it was mostly moms who’d buy it
I remember hummers, but then I got married
Is this innuendo? XD
I forget which gen we were in, but once I was a passenger with a driver who worked sales a Hummer dealership. We were driving back to a summer camp, and as we’re passing the top of what in the winter is the tobogganing hill, he goes “guys hold on, check this out.” He goes offroad down a significant incline, mowing down saplings and dodging trees, rocks, etc, with all of us kids just trying to hold on in the back because the seats lack bolstering. We get to the bottom and he’s just like “cool right?” It was kind of cool, and it’s also what made it the perfect karenmobile.
It also makes up for their obviously small penis as well. Use to be muscle cars.
And here you are, furthering the psyop
You don’t sound like you’re from NA, but here in the US we have trucks that are colloquially known as “Child Killers” because when you’re driving them, you literally can’t see what’s in front of you. They are all over the roads, and make for an extremely bad experience for people in smaller vehicles, people on bikes, and pedestrians. Not to mention, they’re often driven by people that lean heavily into road rage.
Avoid Dodge Ram drivers, especially.
That whole culture is cancer. A lot of Koreans here think country music is typical American music, and i have to explain to them how that whole culture is super, super fucked and how they need to turn off that fucking music
they need to turn off that fucking music
Can I keep Bluegrass music and older country artists like Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash?
(Modern Country sucks.)
Good point. That stuff is chill. I dig me some Johnny Cash now and then, too
Yes and you can also enjoy anyone modern who plays in that style. So many nights me, whiskey, and Johnny Cash. Somehow that multimillionaire loved by all gets me.
My brother drive a 2500, guess it checks out. Huh.
Imho, the problem is that North American roads are not safe for small vehicles. If you’re a suburbanite who spends an hour in your car every day on expressways full of trucks and SUVs, you don’t generally want to be in a slow, tiny, short, vulnerable vehicle where you’re beneath the consideration and sightline and possibly wheels of traffic.
Seriously, in Texas even a full size 4-door sedan feels small compared to all he lifted oversized pickups all over.
Am in Texas (Dallas area) I commute 33 miles each way in an electric Fiat 500. I actually do feel plenty safe (car is insanely stable but also far safer than my other commuter which is a klr650 motorcycle) but do have issues with road rage. I legitly don’t care if someone hits me in this car as it wouldn’t be the first time and I have full confidence I’ll be safe…on the other hand I don’t appreciate how unsafe large vehicles tend to be nor how difficult they can make visibility.
I used to drive semi trucks for a living and I’d personally pick the Fiat over the Freightliner every time.
Right? And sane laws about safe vehicles that would clamp down on these land-tanks would never pass because muh freedoms.
If your vehicle represents a higher risk to other people around you, then there should be firmer laws about driving it safely. Give Miatas a higher speed limit, and F-350s firmer penalties for dangerous driving and speeding.
Ever seen a honey badger?
There’s also the matter of snow in a large part of the country. Any car with less than 6" of ground clearance is going to get stuck all the time. AWD or 4wd saves a you a lot of grief too.
I drive a Prius and I live in Canada, a vehicle with like 3 mm of ground clearance. The trick is to live in a place with actual civilized government that plows and salts.
I live in Chicago. They are good at clearing the main streets, but they don’t do the alleys. They also can’t help burying cars parked on side streets. On top of that the wind causes huge drifts.
Wisconsin here. I drove a dodge shadow, a grand am and then a civic. Only the grand am sucked in snow and that was due to garbage tires.
Where is this winter hellscape you speak of
Chicago. The wind off the lake blows huge snow drifts and the city doesn’t have the manpower to clear the side streets or alleys. If you park off the alley, you will get stuck. If you park on the street, you will get buried by the snow plow and you will get stuck.
No
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they make them in Vietnam too but nobody cares because they’re still expensive and they suck ass
Making a cheap car isn’t rocket science, but Americans unfortunately get all this cheap credit and blow it on luxury SUVs/crossovers
Because Americans spend WAY more time in their cars than most other countries and I’ll be fucked if Im spending an hour+ each day in a cheap econo-car.
look, if your car is the backup house wouldn’t you spend more on it?
With the way the economy is going, it may well be many people’s primary house.
Having spent a lot of time in China, I have not seen a huge uptake on electric vehicles because they don’t have the infrastructure or charging stations for it. That said, I haven’t been there in the last three years or so but I don’t expect that to be changed radically.
I know that the Chinese government has spent a lot of money trying to entice people to buy electric cars by allowing civilians to use the coveted green parking pass that is good anywhere if their vehicle is electric.
This led to some major expansion of their electric vehicle brands. I don’t know what kind of percentage change it is but it’s big enough to shake up their automotive industry.
Although it seems a bit of a weird move to me considering how good their public transport is.
The bus and train in China can be pretty wildin so I get why a lot of people hate using it. That said Guangzhou subway is pretty nice and Japanese like.
I expect with the amount they’re investing in FCEVs that EVs will only last another decade-ish.
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Crazy to see how far behind Japanese car manufacturers are getting these days. Japan disrupted the auto market and made small, fuel efficient, cars popular. Now Honda and Toyota are starting to feel like 70’s Detroit.
Meanwhile Hyundai and Kia are absolutely smashing it (in Europe and Asia) with their cheap, reliable cars
can’t really agree with the “reliable” part but yea, they are affordable.
2013 Hyundai Elantra here. Despite full synthetic oil changes every 5k miles and new filters every year, my engine has now failed for a second time in 100k miles. The mechanic is telling me it needs a new engine, which is going to basically exceed the value of the car.
But at least it was cheap!
Former 2012 Forte owner here - first engine made it to 90k, second one was knocking already about 2k in. Basically walked from a freshly paid off vehicle and bought a Toyota.
Hyundai knowingly left an easy exploit to hotwire their cars in for several years. The redesigned a few cars to try to rebrand after fixing it, but they cut corners there too, and now they’re in the middle of recalling the Tuscan for exploding batteries.
Sorry, Hyundai isn’t a role model here.
He is referring to the EV cars as in the topic.
He’s also shifted from NA to Europe. So…
Meanwhile Hyundai and Kia are absolutely smashing it (in Europe and Asia) with their cheap, reliable cars
And easy to steal
Edit: Downvote me all you want, I got mine stolen this year in Bulgaria, and if you check the news there’s a lot of Tucsons stolen like every week. Along with the recent callback of models that risk getting on fire, Hyundai has a pretty shit reputation lately and I wouldn’t buy one again even it was free.
I thought only the American models were easy to steal because they left out some critical antitheft features on the lowest cost models? Didn’t think it impacted other countries.
Pretty sure their refering to the fact that certain Kia(?) models could be jacked using a screwdriver and USB. Basically the engines power button was shit. This is also why I dont fucking trust cars that use startup buttons, atleast if someone hotwires the car they had to work for it.
It only affected key start cars, if it was push button start, it was immune to the attack you describe.
I was going off of something I vaguely remembered. But now my question is why the actual fuck was the key start system setup so badly.
That’s a damn good question, when chip-keys were fairly common in the 90’s already.
Because the US doesn’t make engine immobilisers mandatory like the rest of the world does
But a Hyundai isn’t going to easily go 200k miles with easy to source parts (have Hyundai cars in my family).
Hyundai and Kia are disposable cars. Not a model I can get behind.
Tradeoffs, it’s always tradeoffs.
They are only disposable to those that don’t take average care of their cars. My parents Sonata is at 235k and it will soon become my kid’s car. Runs fine with no issues because my parents take care and of their cars.
Kia and Hyundai are the most stolen cars in North America due to missing basic security measures like steering wheel locks and the ability to spoof the key fob with a cell phone. You could also take a Hyundai or Kia that is near it’s fob and just drive off in it. There was no proximity shut off until a recent OTA update, and it didn’t work on every model
They’re cheap in NA and they’re likely to stay that way until they add proper security measures. In response, both State Farm and Allstate have raised insurance rates on Hyundai and Kia made after 2015. They’re cheaper because they cut corners, and the end customer foots the bill on the insurance side
Last I looked into it, Toyota was still supposed to have some of the most efficient combustion engines out there, with something crazy like 40%(?) thermal efficiency.
As far as I know Mazda are the highest with their gas engines that have diesel compression ratio.
Wow, 56%, impressive, although they seem to be roughly in-line with the competition for MPG anyway.
I know, that’s what I find weird about it, in the end fuel economy isn’t that much better… I haven’t checked peak power vs competition though, but I think they have more torque than most? 🤔
It’s because fuel economy is heavily driven by vehicle weight, since start from a stop kills efficiency. Cruise effeciency is more about aerodynamics than weight (ask anyone who’s ever towed anything - you can really feel the drag above 45mph).
And oddly enough, today’s cars aren’t really significantly lighter than 30 or 40 years ago. We’ve just moved the weight from the frame/body setup to unitized body/frame (lighter but safer… And cheaper to manufacture), more safety systems (airbags/computers) and things like heated seats, etc.
Today’s 4+ seat SUV often weighs as much as a 1970’s 4+ seat station wagon…but with less space inside.
Yes it’s about aerodynamics and rolling resistance and weight and you need X torque to overcome all of that at Y speed, but if you are able to generate that amount of torque from less fuel because your engine manages to extract more energy from the same amount of fuel, you would expect the car to have better fuel economy than its competitor with an engine that has worse thermal efficiency… So unless Mazda is doing something really wrong or the return diminishes greatly past a certain point, I don’t understand why they don’t have much better fuel economy numbers with an engine that has 56% efficiency (compared to as low as 20% for gas engines just 20 years ago!)
How do they pull that off?
16:1 with the latest generation of engines, direct injection does miracles!
How efficient was the Flying Scotsman? That must have had a pretty efficient engine.
At a quick google steam locomotives generally top out at 10%, due to discarding the steam without recovering any of the heat.
I mean I drive a Prius Prime and I love it. I’m surprised they’re not pushing harder on PHEVs. I just put 900km onto the darn thing on a road trip - a few evening charging sessions (the motel had a charging station across the street) for like $3 total plus $35CAD of gas for the whole trip.
We did nothing and tried everything!
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They’re saying they don’t care about the cheaper segments and are just going to sell expensive vehicles. I don’t know what those of us who can’t afford 60k vehicles are expected to do for transit though… I suspect this is a ploy to get the American government to subsidize an affordable car range.
We can buy Chinese cars. They are starting to kill it on EV’s, with an already expansive supply chain. It is only a matter of time before they start showing up in the US.
If they get approved by the DOT, which is unlikely both due to government sentiment towards Chinese businesses and the fact of they probably don’t actually meet our safety guidelines
Some of BYD’s models just got 5 star saftey ratings in the EU.
Those super cheap, tiny, death trap looking cars, are mostly just that, but these newer EV companies are making better vehicles. They’ll be in the US soon enough. Safety won’t be an issue.
I see you don’t understand how lobbying works in this country.
There are already cars being built in China being brought into the USA.
All that’s going to happen is these newer companies will need to meet our standards (BYD has proven they can now), deal with some politics bullshit, and end up having to deal with some hefty tariffs that will put them at a disadvantage.
They won’t be completely stopped.
Edit: BYD already has busses running in the USA even.
Cars built in China is not the same thing as cars designed and manufactured entirely in China. And “some politics bullshit” is a hell of a way to describe overcoming the auto and union lobbies in the US.
Chinese cars like Great Wall have been a thing in New Zealand for a long time but they’re quite terrible. Chinese built Teslas seem to be reasonably built, but I would steer clear of any cars built by a Chinese brand until there are long term reliability studies.
Amount of time before ban citing vague security risks like car technology could somehow be used by the military…3, 2, 1…
If you’ve ever seen how Chinese manufacturing continually lowers quality despite your contract requiring certain specs, you’d understand the problem.
They’re also heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
Unless something magic happens and evs get super cheap thats eventually going to end and they’ll just be almost expensive death traps.
Not that they’re particularly cheap at all, but Polestars are already made in China.
Lolol and I’m sure the quality will match any day now 🙄
I think as the infrastructure expands, those cheap cars will come. The batteries drive the cost and everyone is putting huge batteries in luxury cars to get 300+ miles of range. But imagine a decade or so from now when charging stations are as ubiquitous as gas stations. Range anxiety won’t be about breaking down on the side of the road. It’ll be about how often you have to stop and wait 10 minutes to charge. At that point, car companies will be able to make affordable new cars just by halving the battery size.
Buy a used car. At some point people started thinking new cars was something for people without money.
Same thing they did to housing. Incoming 10 to 15 year car loans.
Force your City or government to improve public transit options.
My local government keeps refusing to expand public transit options because they say it will increase crime. They’re so fucking racist they don’t want busses and trains to make it easier for people to get around because then the “wrong” people might come to the burbs
Have you seen the size of most US states?
All of England could fit in Alabama (they’re practically the same size). And it’s in the lower half of state sizes.
Great Britain would fit in, I don’t know, Missouri?
It takes sixteen western OECD countries to equal the land mass of the US.
Do you comute going from NY to LA? No right, so what’s the point?
Doesn’t matter if you live in USA or Switzerland, a city is a city, of course suburban sprawl doesn’t help, but this has nothing to do with the size of the country
Ok. While I am convinced that train is even better than planes I was talking about public transit in cities. And yes I know that conny from the rual area won’t be able to drive 100 miles by bus. But that is not your problem in the us. Your problem is, that you must use a car for 2 miles within the City because you can’t safely walk there.
…you buy ICE until affordable EV is a thing? Is that so bad?
The brands are saying they aren’t/won’t be making affordable EVs because the luxury market is too lucrative. And ICE is done in just a few years, by the time my current hybrid dies ICE won’t be sold
ICE is done in just a few years, by the time my current hybrid dies ICE won’t be sold
You’re delusional if you actually believe this.
And I absolutely guarantee you by the time ICE is not sold anymore, there will be affordable EVs on the market.
Well, they already have that down pat.
That’s a bummer. Was interested to see what a Honda EV with ultium cells would be like. A sub-$30k EV is what a lot of people are looking for, judging from my experience buying a Bolt. Hope they can figure out the unit-economics
I somehow lucked into finding a 2023 Bolt EV at MSRP last year, and got a really good trade-in offer on top of that. It’s been such a great car.
The one dealership that didn’t have a markup near us sold out immediately and we ended paying a slight markup at another place, but after all the incentives and trade-in it was a steal.
We love our EUV, I don’t think I’ll go back to an ICE car after seeing how convenient home charging is and one-pedal driving is great.
I’m a little sad about this - the planned Honda looked nice, the range would have been fine for us (we usually take our pickup on longer road trips anyway), and I was hoping to replace our Mazda 3 with one if it drove nicely and all that. I admit that I had some concerns about the GM underpinnings, though - my experience with American brands is rough, and our experience with GM is the roughest.
We plan to hit the auto shows next year to get an idea of what we want to look at more closely.
I dunno, my Chevy bolt has been a solid
GM had their chances with us. My wife and I each brought a GM into the relationship; they both developed serious transmission problems - among other random issues…and both had much less than 100k miles. They need to show years of reliability before I’d buy another one.
The previously announced cars are still releasing.
Oh thanks. I missed that. Still have the GM influence concern though!
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07’ Civic here. You distracted drivers better not run into me. Please I can’t afford another car.
08 civic and still going strong.
My Chevy bolt still runs. Shoot, it’s cheaper to drive than my 1986 Honda Civic!
GM has blamed the Ultium bottleneck on an unspecified “automation equipment supplier.”
Rockwell Automation has entered the chat.
Rockwell is like Comcast. You have no opinion on them or a blind raging hostile opinion of them.
Edit: on a serious note the systems engineering folks have been telling this before my parents were born. This should not have been a shock to anyone. Diversity in components means greater ability to withstanding changes, the tradeoff is you are going to run less efficiently even in good times.
I want to talk about trains.
How about trains but we only use electricity to power them, and let’s say put overhead electric fuel lines over them. Trams. I wanna see more trams. Solves most of the issues EV’s have with batteries.
Fossil fuel mafia dumped a large bribe into Honda’s bank account?
Idk, even if you made almost everything out of aluminum , thats like $2000 for the raw metal for the frame and body, 8k for a 80kwh battery, about 5.5k for a 166HP emrax 228 motor off the shelf… with no transmission, the most expensive components combined are less than 20k. I dont see how even a 35k EV would not be profitable with some sensible off the shelf components.
China does it lol
That’s parts don’t forget labor and transportation.
I love everyone in this thread who is talking about how expensive EVs are while ignoring they can buy a cheap 15 year old ice car and save thousands 🤣🤣🤣
Isn’t the whole point of an EV that they don’t have ICEs?
If I’ve got my heart set on a steak for dinner tonight, the fact that sausages are much cheaper isn’t really relevant information.
Isn’t the whole point of an EV that they don’t have ICEs?
Honestly this is the first time on Lemmy I’ve felt like I was on reddit with such stupid argument logic.
Then don’t complain that the steak is too expensive and eat your damn sausage.
You can want what you want. Doesn’t mean it’s a smart or only choice. You are going to spend more money in most cases and you won’t make up the money for at least 6 or 7 years (at least in the states) unless you drive a ton.
i drive a 1st gen Yaris that is literally older than me. not the best for climate change, but it was 1500€ and uses less than 6L/100km. super cheap to drive. if an electric car was available at that price, and had a possibility of driving 10-20 more years, i would’ve bought it on the spot.
Lol a used car is far more environmentally conscience than a new EV.
True, but they did have to be new at some point. Presumably you might like to buy a used EV one day.
But how would people cope with shitty lives without buying something new every couple of weeks?
