- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
Among the many recent controversies around AI, there is the claim that to solve a longstanding mathematical problem, OpenAI stole the work of the New York University mathematician Tristan Buckmaster and a colleague, Levent Alpöge, who also is a researcher for Anthropic. I have no ability to assess the validity of the claim, but as I understand it, the argument is that OpenAI had access to work done by Buckmaster and Alpöge. It then built on this work to quickly rush ahead and find a solution, which also had a $1 million prize attached to it.
Insofar as that accurately describes what OpenAI did, this seems like it would be equivalent to having a professor doing a seminar for colleagues and then having one of the attendees do a few additions and claim the work as their own. This would not be viewed as very collegial behavior in a normal academic department.
I’m not sure what claim a professor would have against a colleague under such circumstances. I suppose if their work was properly cited, there would not be a claim of plagiarism. (OpenAI’s work did not directly cite the work of Buckmaster and Alpöge, from my understanding.) I suppose there could be a basis for disputing rights to the million-dollar prize. But the problem seems much greater.
If AI can effectively steal the work of others, and claim it as its own, then it undermines the practice of openness in science that has allowed for enormous progress for centuries. This practice depended on norms, whereby scientists would properly credit the work of their peers.
In the seminar scenario I described, if one of the attendees listened to the presentation and realized the one or two additional steps needed to get over the goal line, they would be expected to raise the issue with the presenter. Assuming the additions were correct, the presenter would finish the paper, acknowledging the contribution or possibly adding the attendee as a co-author, if their contribution was sufficiently important.
But that relies on norms. If the owner of the AI doesn’t share those norms and can freely scrape scientific work wherever it finds it, and then take credit for the product, it will threaten the longstanding practice of openness in science. With the risk of having years of work stolen without getting any credit, researchers will likely keep their work closely held until they have a finished paper.1 They would only share it with a small group of trusted colleagues. Posting a working paper, or having an open seminar, would put control over their work at risk.
However, it is important to recognize the villain in this story. It is Sam Altman and his company, not the AI. Altman and the company are the ones responsible for what their AI does. If it did something they disapprove of, it is their responsibility to correct it. However adept AI may become, it is not the active player; it is the individual or company that set it in motion.
This issue applies more generally. There has been a social media mini firestorm over Texas Attorney General and Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton using AI to have his opponent, James Talarico, making a series of outlandish statements that he never said. Much of the outrage seems to be over Paxton using AI, rather than the fact that he is lying about what Talarico said.
The issue here is that Paxton is defaming Talarico; the AI is secondary. The AI presumably makes the defamation more effective, but if Paxton were an exceptionally gifted mimic, he could likely also trick some people into believing that he was speaking in Talarico’s voice when making outlandish assertions. If that were the case, it would be every bit as bad as using AI to accomplish the job.
There were also the claims that the girls’ school in Iran, which was destroyed by the US military on the first day of the war, killing 120 children, was selected as a target by AI. That may be the case, but the important point was that the military did not have a system in place to properly review targets. It doesn’t matter whether or not an AI system identified the target. The problem was that there was no system that ensured the places designated were proper military targets.
It is important to keep our eyes on the ball. The bad actors are those who do bad things with AI, not the AI. This is like the husband who gets drunk and beats his wife and then says the whiskey did it. No one should ever accept that story. In the same vein, if a theft of mathematical work did occur, it was Sam Altman who did it and it was Ken Paxton who libeled his political opponent. The AI is beside the point.
simple reminder: capitalism will do this, every single chance it gets. this isn’t an ai thing or a sam altman thing, it’s a capitalist thing. since forever.
Yep, it’s not one broligarch that did it, it’s all of them and their circus.
I also read that the AI used about $25 millions worth of tokens, to solve the problem (with a “prize” of $1 mil), not counting a lot of actual mathematicians supervising the works. Can you imagine if that sort of money was available to academics. I know a couple of math post grads and I feel they spend more time trying to secure grants than doing actual work, or at least that’s what they are always talking about
Just applying some of that LLM money into funding education would’ve given us SO much.
if corporations are people - time to hold them liable to the law - especially when they’re committing espionage and cyber crimes, and theft
If corporations are people, then they are rich people, not bound to the law.
We have to fix this outside the law. The French taught us how. But we have forgotten.
“guns don’t kill people. people kill people.”
… with guns.
… designed specifically for killing
Which isn’t illegal.
What is illegal is when a person makes the decision to use a tool immorally, i.e. to murder. The problem in that scenario is the person, not the tool.
If you could magically cause every gun to disappear, there would still be murder because it’s the people who are doing the murder.
If you could magically cause every gun to disappear, there would still be murder because it’s the people who are doing the murder.
…but the number of victims of murder would be much, much smaller.
Yes, that is true.
But the source of murders is always a person, not the tool.
Just to be clear, I’m not making some kind of anti-gun control argument. I’m just explaining why that metaphor is flawed.
The problem at a murder scene isn’t the gun, it’s the person who used it. Nobody is mad at the gun, or worried that it will suddenly murder again.
Much like here. The problem isn’t AI, the problem is the people who are choosing to deploy AI in this way.
It’s the people
Users and tools can be treated separately. We have entire industries on the subject.
The problem is AI.
The problem is people.
We have two problems.
We ought to fix the parts we can.
Old people burning, old people burning, put your hands up!
Thank you Freddy.
With guns, POW!
Not your AI, not your data.
Of course he did, that doesn’t mean AI is a worthwhile product. It is just a means for rich to steal your life.
Your problem is with capitalism, not AI.
Blaming a field of machine learning because some rich assholes are exploiting it demonstrates a failure to diagnose the issue.
AI isn’t building data centers, a human being made that decision.
Would you say Sarin gas is bad. Or just people who use it are bad and should be freely available for individuals to decide.
Yes I have compared AI to a deadly chemical agent of warfare. Just as Sarin any benefit of AI might come in the future but all the worst part of it has arrived and is just as unregulated as firearm in the wild west that is America.
Because the probability engine is called Intelligent. It is called machine learning even though it makes probability models and doesn’t understand anything, so it doesn’t learn anything.
Words like Intelligence, learning has been reimagined to market foolish dreams.
Can’t wait to see the movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_(2026_film)
Well said
If
AICapitalism can effectively steal the work of others, and claim it as its own,That’s just how Capitalism works. No need to attack the tool Capitalists use to do it. The ideology is a complete endowment of Psychopathic behaviour - suppress others to promote your self - win-lose.
Edit: To be fair:
However, it is important to recognize the villain in this story. It is Sam Altman and his company, not the AI
So almost there, but ffs - say it out loud: CAPITALISM is perpetual economic war and causes this behaviour always !
LLMs clap are clap not clap AI clap.
Try to get that into you sycophant brain, and you will understand why this bullshit happens in the first place.
Plagiarism is the core and only mechanism of LLMs that produces anything that people get impressed by. The pre- and postprocessing logic for grammar rules is not the stuff that makes gullible people believe there is “intelligence” involved.
Your statement ignores the meaning of AI or the decades of work that have gone into the field.
They’re not sentient. They’re not sapient. They’re not conscious, nor do they have feelings, volition, desire, or anything that can be described as an internal life. They can’t even think in they sense that anyone means by it.
None of those things are intelligence though.
An LLM posesses the ability to respond to external stimuli in a way that is meaningful. They also have the ability to learn, which is the act of a system transforming information or stimuli in a way that is applied to later stimuli.
My air conditioner learns and is intelligent. It measures the environment, takes actions based on that stimulus, and when I make adjustments it records when I like different settings and applies that to the temperatures it’s recorded in the past to adjust early. An LLM may be more sophisticated than my air conditioner but it’s in the same category.
The mistake is thinking that AI in the real world is what AI is on TV.
They are AI the same way ELIZA is.
Nah, Eliza had a programmed logic, all phrases she reacted to had been implemented deterministically by a human. There was no training data.
LLMs clap are clap not clap AI clap.
Yes they are.
They’re built on artificial neural networks that share a basis (a basis, not a replica) with biological neurons that produce probabilistic results (not deterministic).
Plagiarism is the core and only mechanism of LLMs that produces anything that people get impressed by.
As opposed to what? Don’t get me wrong, the blatant violation of copyright is a massive issue, and in a logical world would bury each and every LLM company out there. But what other mechanism to “learn” do you think exists?
gullible people believe there is “intelligence” involved.
If you mean “intelligence” in the colloquial sense, then sure. But that’s not the same word that researchers use. Intelligence is simply the ability to make a decision based on input data. And by that definition even an if-else statement is a form of intelligence (which it is). So then the discussion becomes the degree or “amount” intelligence.
LLMs are absolutely intelligent. The issue is that most people conflate “intelligence” with “sentience” and “sapience”, which they are not. They aren’t “clever” or “creative”. They are extremely good at taking large swaths of information and distilling it, finding hidden patterns, of finding specific data points that are otherwise deeply buried. Good examples are finding bugs in code or novel and massively beneficial uses for existing medication (which has already happened multiple times)
I’m not defending the current state of AI. Energy use is a problem. Water use is a problem. The grift is a problem. The copyright violations are a problem.
But this “LLMs are not AI” rhetoric is just pure ignorance.
with biological neurons that produce probabilistic results
Ah, so you understood neurons better than neuroscientists, eh? You have missed the part where no scientist worth their name claims to be able to fully explain how consciousness works and whether or not it affects our decision making.
LLMs are absolutely intelligent.
Okay, I think we’re done here. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
so you understood neurons better than neuroscientists
No, but I have no idea what that statement has to do with artificial neurons.
You have missed the part where no scientist worth their name claims to be able to fully explain how consciousness works and whether or not it affects our decision making.
And you have missed the part where I explicitly mentioned that LLMs are NOT “sapient” or “sentient”, which would preclude “consciousness” also.
Okay, I think we’re done here. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Says the person using colloquial definitions and applying them to a field of active research.
The facts don’t care about your opinions. A basic program with hardcoded decision trees is “intelligent”. An LLM can do more at a dynamic (and probabilistic) level. Therefore, LLMs fit the academic definition of intelligence.
Even the general word definition:
the ability to learn or understand things or to deal with new or difficult situations.
I can point an LLM to my code that’s never been seen by an LLM and it can read it, explain to me exactly what it does, point out bugs, and even give suggestions on areas that can be improved.
Is it “smart”? Debatable.
Is it conscious, sapient, sentient, or “alive”? Hard no. And that was never the argument.
Edit: autocorrect speaking mistake
And you have missed the part where I explicitly mentioned that LLMs are NOT “sapient” or “sentient”, which would preclude “consciousness” also.
I am inclined to believe that people who use the word "sapi*"anything are just very very gullible and/or Dunning-Kruger-victims.
You completely missed the point I made that links understanding and conscience in humans.
am inclined to believe that people who use the word "sapi*"anything
You mean the word “sapient”? Because sentient doesn’t even have the letter “p” in it.
just very very gullible and/or Dunning-Kruger-victims.
A Dunning-Kruger “victim”…
You completely missed the point
Say that again into a mirror and then you’ll actually be making a real and coherent point.





