• Worstdriver@lemmy.world
    353·
    2 天前

    MJ was heavily abused physically and mentally in his youth. Being raised as a Jehovah’s Witness fucks you up in a lot of ways so those of us from that era and background were never surprised at how he became a fucked up adult.

    And to be clear, none of that excuses the things he did, but it does help explain how they came to be.

    • BrickEater@lemmy.world
      4·
      13 小时前

      What’d he do tho? Because everything I’ve seen says he’s pretty much exonerated/ claims were false and coerced.

    • cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works
      27·
      2 天前

      They don’t believe in birthdays or toys or gifts for Christmas. As far as I can tell all of their beliefs about children are centered around creating the most joyless upbringing possible.

      • Worstdriver@lemmy.world
        29·
        2 天前

        That only just scratches the surface, mon ami. ANY celebration, except Passover, (which they refer to as the Memorial) is evil and to be rejected. On top of that, the JWs underwent a major shift around 1975. Internal discipline was ramped way up and overall the religion went to a “Armageddon is coming any day” footing. Children as young as 3 were told that the End was coming soon, and it could happen next month, next week, tomorrow, or an hour from now, and if they weren’t obeying the teachings of the faith that they would die in a fiery apocalypse

        This message was repeated to them multiple times a day, with parents being told that they would be held responsible for their children as well. If child was found unworthy of survival at Armageddon, so would they.

        Every single waking moment was viewed as a moment to demonstrate faithfulness to the teachings of the Governing Body, every single opportunity to attempt to bring in new worshippers had to be taken. If not, you risked death.

        And this is without mentioning that all JWs were expected to have as few contacts with non-believers as possible, except when preaching to them. No friends outside the faith. No relationships on any level with anyone who wasn’t a believer. From the oldest down to the babies, you were supposed to have only absolutely necessary contact with those who weren’t JWs.

      • johnyreeferseed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        11·
        1 天前

        There was one girl in my class that was Jehovah’s witness when I was little. Every time we would have a class party she would have to go sit in the corner and just watch us all stuffing our faces with sugar and having fun.

  • BCsven@lemmy.ca
    26·
    2 天前

    Hmm, all MJ moves weren’t his. Its like all his moves are from just this movie.

    • Noblesavage@lemmy.world
      166·
      2 天前

      I mean, yes and no. You can see all the iconic MJ moves in Bob Fosse’s performance here, but they’re not quite the same. As well, Bob Fosse, as far as I know and I honestly don’t know anything beyond this clip and I can’t be bothered to look it up, wasn’t also a singer and songwriter.

      As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art - every great artist has either copied or stolen from someone else.

      Terry Pratchett, an author that I greatly respect and admire, straight up stole/paid homage to all kinds of pop culture movies and science and quotes - he dressed up those stories and made them his own.

      Rap artists off all kinds will steal bars and hooks from one another all the time.

      I guess my point is, at what point is it paying homage to something and at what point is it stealing? If someone truly made something original it would likely be rejected for being so obscure as to be offensive to “good taste.”

      • elucubra@sopuli.xyz
        41·
        1 天前

        As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art

        Please reread what you wrote.

        from the first arranging of some feathers, or charcoal finger strokes in some cave a hundred thousand years ago, EVERY new thing, color, stroke, note arrangement, word composition, has been original. Some of these, of course, have been used as a basis or inspiration, or part of newer artistic expressions. Often, it’s nature that provides the inspiration. La Sagrada Familia cathedral is inspired by these stalagmites children (and some adults) make by dropping watery sand down a mound, for example.

        It’s like saying that when some hominin drew a circle in the sand, and another who saw him drew a square, the second one copied him. Well, you could say the 2nd copied the moving finger in the sand, but it fucking invented the square. Yeah, I know, Pyrite et Al. would like a word.

        Michael Jackson literally cloned these moves and style. Almost 100%.

        Although there is a fine (blurry?) line between inspiration and imitation, MJ was waaaay inside the imitation demarcation.

      • Crewman@sopuli.xyz
        51·
        2 天前

        Don’t know what you’re talking about, Shakespeare wrote the first story about two people falling in love. That not ending well, also Shakespeare original.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
        22·
        1 天前

        You sound confident, but no…

        “Not quite the same” is frankly, respectfully, a semantic bullshit position here. All of what Jackson did was 99.7% the spirit of this Fosse performance. Period.

        Further your point about rap is off as well because they don’t “steal”, they sample - meaning they license the use with legal permission OR they pay in court after the fact. It’s listed in the liner notes and credit is given directly, unlike with Jackson and Fosse as I’d never once heard or read this growing up.

        So again, you sound confident, while being very wrong.

  • dan1101@lemmy.worldEnglish
    161·
    2 天前

    Wonder where Bob Fosse got it? A combination of previous performers or something completely original, which is rare.

  • Doomsider@lemmy.world
    518·
    2 天前

    Creepy as fuck pedophile snake man and the little prince. Definitely something MJ would re-enact with his child brides.

      • Doomsider@lemmy.world
        72·
        2 天前

        He had multiple mock wedding ceremonies where he married children as young as 9. I watched a documentary and the boy had the ring and pictures to prove it. I think Michael bought the parents a house.

        • thermal_shock@lemmy.worldEnglish
          41·
          2 天前

          Which movie. I’m very interested. I always figured he was just stuck in a childs mindset and didn’t mean harm to other kids, just wanted friends his age. So I’d really like to see this movie.

          • Doomsider@lemmy.world
            42·
            2 天前

            I am not sure the exact one since I watched several, but my wife says it was probably Leaving Neverland.

            • thermal_shock@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3·
              2 天前

              I found a 2 part mini series called leaving neverland, the thumbnail looks like what you’re describing. Gonna download it

      • Doomsider@lemmy.world
        210·
        2 天前

        Creepy scene, maybe it was purely artistic.

        And no, I am not abusing Bob Fosse. I don’t even know the guy.

        I did just watch a couple of his other choreographies though. I think the style is interesting for sure.

        Since you brought it up though it looks like he was a prolific sexual assaulter and was exposed to sex and likely molested at a young age.