It always impresses me how Christianity = evangelicalism in the mind of most Lemmynauts. Outside evangelicalism (and even partly within evangelicalism), going to hell or heaven has nothing to do with being theologically correct or not. I mean, even the Catholic church, which is both by far the biggest one and absolutely not one of the most open ones states with an absolute clarity that non-Christians can go to heaven too.
I’m old enough to remember when kids started taking their new flip phones to public school and secretly recording their teachers berating their muslim or atheist students. The recordings stopped when teachers realized any student could be recording any conversation.
I’m also coded enough that bigots test the waters with me to see what I’ll agree with. I don’t exactly trust quiet christians. They’re very polite when they assume you’re also religious and things can go quickly downhill if they find out you’re not.
Catholics do not believe that non-Christians go to heaven. Best case scenario, righteous unbelievers go to purgatory. Same with unbaptised babies.
Also, I grew up going to baptist and pentecostal churches. They 1000% do not think my atheist ass is getting into heaven no matter how righteous I am, even though I got baptized for that matter. Unless I repent at the 11th hour and “accept Jesus into my heart as my savior,” anyway. There are certainly plenty denominations that are not all about preaching “hellfire for the unbeliever”, but even plenty of those still believe that is true even if they’re not boasting about it. There are some that allow for people to be saved through ignorance of Jesus (which makes missionary work kind of fucked up when you think about it that way). But even that is not the norm.
Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations. And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it and turn your life over to him to qualify for the get out of Hell free card.
Source: 37 years of life in the Bible belt as both an active churchgoer and apostate.
Purgatory is a step that leads to heaven, not a final destination. It’s a step that a lot of Catholics will have to take too, according to the catholic church so it’s not something that separates believers and non-believers.
Baptism and Pentecostalism are categories of evangelicalism. So yeah, they believe that. But they’re a minority within Christianity.
Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations.
Yes.
And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it and turn your life over to him to qualify for the get out of Hell free card.
False, not only in evangelicalism. The words of Jesus Christ disagree with you. Do you need me to quote the “Narrow Gate” to you? You should be very familiar with it if you’ve read the Bible.
Yeah, that’s what cults do. I’m very sorry, and happy for you you found a way out. It’s better to be an atheist than jailed in a cult, and I know God will understand.
Sure they do! That’s because they’ve become more moderate over the centuries in their long decline since The Great Mortality. This allows them to continue their parasitic ways in a secular society.
However, they spent many more centuries claiming the exact opposite, because the Bible says that most will burn in Hell. Repeatedly. Throughout.
The “absolute clarity” is in direct opposition to what they falsely claim is The Word of God. It’s absolutely clear that they are a cancer on the Earth.
Wrong. But I had this discussion with evangelicals 1000 hundred times it’s not interesting anymore. I’ll begin by citing theologians like Aquinas (13th century), you’ll answer saying “meh don’t care it’s not in the Bible” or, if you studied theology (but you probably didn’t), citing the one big exception, Augustine (which still wrote that God’s mysterious grace could be greater than what he himself thought). But with that I will have proved that no, it’s not a recent evolution of Christian theology, but something the churches hold still the beginning, with exceptions.
Then I’ll cite Romans 2:12-16, Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 25:31-46 or Acts 10:34-35, and you’ll do mental gymnastics that will grant you a place in the coming Olympics to reconcile this with the idea that only Christians are saved, using texts like John 3:18. And I’ll say, yes, the Bible contradicts itself on this subject like on most others, but my position is better established and coherent with the global message of the Bible, the church history, and the reason, while yours is not. And you’ll be shocked : “what? You don’t believe in biblical inerrancy? You’re not a Christian!” and I’ll answer “okay, bro”, like I do with disrespectful people on the net.
And we will both have lost a lot of time, and you will have push more people to hate Christ while you will feel oh so righteous.
It always impresses me how Christianity = evangelicalism in the mind of most Lemmynauts. Outside evangelicalism (and even partly within evangelicalism), going to hell or heaven has nothing to do with being theologically correct or not. I mean, even the Catholic church, which is both by far the biggest one and absolutely not one of the most open ones states with an absolute clarity that non-Christians can go to heaven too.
I’m old enough to remember when kids started taking their new flip phones to public school and secretly recording their teachers berating their muslim or atheist students. The recordings stopped when teachers realized any student could be recording any conversation.
I’m also coded enough that bigots test the waters with me to see what I’ll agree with. I don’t exactly trust quiet christians. They’re very polite when they assume you’re also religious and things can go quickly downhill if they find out you’re not.
Catholics do not believe that non-Christians go to heaven. Best case scenario, righteous unbelievers go to purgatory. Same with unbaptised babies.
Also, I grew up going to baptist and pentecostal churches. They 1000% do not think my atheist ass is getting into heaven no matter how righteous I am, even though I got baptized for that matter. Unless I repent at the 11th hour and “accept Jesus into my heart as my savior,” anyway. There are certainly plenty denominations that are not all about preaching “hellfire for the unbeliever”, but even plenty of those still believe that is true even if they’re not boasting about it. There are some that allow for people to be saved through ignorance of Jesus (which makes missionary work kind of fucked up when you think about it that way). But even that is not the norm.
Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations. And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it and turn your life over to him to qualify for the get out of Hell free card.
Source: 37 years of life in the Bible belt as both an active churchgoer and apostate.
Purgatory is a step that leads to heaven, not a final destination. It’s a step that a lot of Catholics will have to take too, according to the catholic church so it’s not something that separates believers and non-believers.
Baptism and Pentecostalism are categories of evangelicalism. So yeah, they believe that. But they’re a minority within Christianity.
Yes.
No. Only in evangelicalism.
False, not only in evangelicalism. The words of Jesus Christ disagree with you. Do you need me to quote the “Narrow Gate” to you? You should be very familiar with it if you’ve read the Bible.
Well, consider me brainwashed by evangelicals then. Non-evangelicals really need to step up their PR game.
Yeah, that’s what cults do. I’m very sorry, and happy for you you found a way out. It’s better to be an atheist than jailed in a cult, and I know God will understand.
Sure they do! That’s because they’ve become more moderate over the centuries in their long decline since The Great Mortality. This allows them to continue their parasitic ways in a secular society.
However, they spent many more centuries claiming the exact opposite, because the Bible says that most will burn in Hell. Repeatedly. Throughout.
The “absolute clarity” is in direct opposition to what they falsely claim is The Word of God. It’s absolutely clear that they are a cancer on the Earth.
Wrong. But I had this discussion with evangelicals 1000 hundred times it’s not interesting anymore. I’ll begin by citing theologians like Aquinas (13th century), you’ll answer saying “meh don’t care it’s not in the Bible” or, if you studied theology (but you probably didn’t), citing the one big exception, Augustine (which still wrote that God’s mysterious grace could be greater than what he himself thought). But with that I will have proved that no, it’s not a recent evolution of Christian theology, but something the churches hold still the beginning, with exceptions.
Then I’ll cite Romans 2:12-16, Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 25:31-46 or Acts 10:34-35, and you’ll do mental gymnastics that will grant you a place in the coming Olympics to reconcile this with the idea that only Christians are saved, using texts like John 3:18. And I’ll say, yes, the Bible contradicts itself on this subject like on most others, but my position is better established and coherent with the global message of the Bible, the church history, and the reason, while yours is not. And you’ll be shocked : “what? You don’t believe in biblical inerrancy? You’re not a Christian!” and I’ll answer “okay, bro”, like I do with disrespectful people on the net.
And we will both have lost a lot of time, and you will have push more people to hate Christ while you will feel oh so righteous.