Ye nah, absolutely fuck the meet industry.
fuck the meet industry
It all started going downhill with Zoom.
It’s amazing how hard Microsoft dropped the ball on that one.
But… Mah hahmbergz!
As much as I find chickens, and all avians in general, cute and I find it sickening the way they are treated… I do love eggs, they’re tasty, versatile, easy to cook, and unbelievably healthy.
I think the differential we have to identify is one thing, and that is scale.
I am not a vegan, I do not believe it is wrong to consume animals or animal-sourced products, however I do support animal welfare and believe that if we are to raise livestock for consumption they should be treated as the sentient, thinking, feeling creatures that they are and cared for accordingly.
Imagine instead of human and animal rights we just had “sentient rights”, for example.
Being able to test for sentience is a topic in and of itself, and out of scope for my argument.
I think there is no harm done in, a hypothetical world where people had the space to do such a thing, raising our own livestock, limited to individual homesteads or the immediate settlement (a local town market, for example).
The line where it becomes unethical is quite obvious really, are the animals treated as living things, or machines to simply fuel and feed to grow them for slaughter and harvest? Yes, in my example of fair treatment the goal may be to raise them for eventual slaughter, but its their lifelong treatment where this applies, not the overall objective.
The better treatment balloons costs by requiring more land and more care, which significantly inflates the cost of the final products. This could be an effective measure for reducing meat consumption by people buying less to save money, many people would be against those increases.
Its just like mass produced clothing. Since they dont see the abuse and destruction, they are satisfied with the lower prices at the store.
Again, scale.
How much of the meat produced is actually eaten? What’s the chance for each garment produced to actually be worn more than once?
The current system can downsize significantly without needing to raise prices, as we’re already in a significant surplus.
The point at which products are no longer guaranteed due to demand is when the prices have to go up.
That surplus is factored in to the companies making money and providing consistant demand. Prices will increase if the treatment gets better because the capitalists and oligarchs will not willingly take a profits cut. The surplus waste in the current system could be utilized better, for example fast freezing and being provided to food banks or soup kitchens.
No matter how you cut it, if labor and land demand increases, the price will increase.
Obviously if treatment got better, the capitalists and oligarchs would no longer be a problem.
Guillotines
if we are to raise livestock for consumption they should be treated as the sentient
this is a contradiction in itself.
It is normal and healthy for people to empathize with the animals they eat, to be concerned about whether or not they are living happy lives and to hope they are slaughtered humanely. However, if it is unethical to harm these animals, then it is more unethical to kill them.
Killing animals for food is far worse than making them suffer. Of course, it is admirable that people care so deeply about these animals that they take deliberate steps to reduce their suffering (e.g. by purchasing “free-range” eggs or “suffering free” meat). However, because they choose not to acknowledge the right of those same animals to live out their natural lives, and because slaughtering them is a much greater violation than mistreatment, people who eat ‘humane’ meat are laboring under an irreconcilable contradiction.
I don’t even eat meat and I disagree completely with that lol. There is nothing wrong or unnatural about killing animals for food. There is something wrong and unnatural about abusing the lives of those animals and treating them with no respect.
I don’t even eat meat and I disagree completely with that lol.
care to give a reason why? Why do you think hurting animals is bad?
I just don’t really think killing animals for food is immoral. It’s natural. Humans have an effect on the environment around them just by living our lives. Our goal should be to minimize that and live in relative harmony with the natural world rather than how we exploit the land today.
Ok but why do you think its bad to abuse these animals aside from killing them? That’s the part I’m curious about. What kind of pain would you consider immoral? Do you count emotional pain such as separating a newborn child from it’s mother for instance?
The “natural life” of all animals bred for meat ends with their slaughter, by definition. Otherwise they wouldn’t exist? Their purpose is not to die of old age, that itself would be a horribly cruel existence past the point when slaughter would normally occur.
None of these creatures exist in nature. If they’re going to exist at all, why not give the best life and fulfillment of purpose if you can?
you have an incredibly bleak outlook on the “purpose” of a life. The slave is bred for the purpose of toiling for their master their entire life, does that justify anything? Hell the only reason the worker gets a wage is so they can work for the capitalist. The only reason people get maternity leave etc. is to breed more workers, that’s your purpose in life.
Only the oppressor has a free choice in their lifes purpose. Well, somehow they always choose to oppress more so who knows. At least we have that old debate finally sorted.
Your examples are false equivalences from where I stand. Slavery, capitalism…these are human systems. Of course the people inside have their own goals and desires. Much of agriculture is wontonly bleak, but not by definition. People still exist without slavery, it is not the same for a meat chicken. They really shouldn’t exist, and ideally they wouldn’t, but they’re not going away anytime soon.
What is it that makes slavery bad?
But surely in the present state of affairs where that treatment is not the norm, veganism is the only ethical approach, no?
The line where it becomes unethical is quite obvious really
Yeah the exploitation and killing part
no, that’s fine, actually.
Yes, slaves are super convenient. No one ever said that slaves aren’t nice to have, dude. YOUR experience is not the fucking point.
There is no way to create a creature for the express purpose of exploitation that is okay. There is no way to create a creature with the intention of forcing it into a state of total dependence that is not actually evil.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do
Yes! Good on you for noticing the speciesism that racism is built on! If non-human animals have less worth than humans then liking some humans to non-human animals means they have less worth. The issue is at the very start, that
a) non-human animal and human are a meaningful distinction
b) non-humans have inherently less worth than humansspeciesism is necessary. racism is bad.
for once in your life make an argument and don’t just throw out claims.
what I said is true. nothing more need be said
So it’s fucked up to have pets because they fully depend on you? 🤔
Yeah, pet ownership is not considered vegan. On account of, you know, owning a sentient being, treating it as property.
I’ll have to inform my vegan friends that they’re fucking posers 👍
Go do that maybe they’ll teach you something about the difference between owning a pet and adopting an animal
I could guess that the 31 replies I see referenced but cannot view are from a fairly insane vegan I recently blocked for being insane and rude.
No one cares about your block list as much as you will. No need to share your mundane account activity with us.
But this response here is vital info that I need to know. I’m guessing the real issue here is “insane rude vegan” struck a nerve with you personally.
Not sure where our definitions of “healthy” foods differ, but I literally wouldn’t call eggs “healthy” whatsoever. There is no single animal product that can even be considered “nutrient dense” much less healthy. Even in world war II, the world had enough saturated fats and excessive animal products that most of the soldiers even in their thirties had already started developing intravascular plaques, and brother, we’re a hell of a long way from that these days…
Just wanted to jump in and correct you because I don’t know where this eggs are. Healthy thing came from. They are certainly not. They are like eating butter essentially with some protein on top
Well unfortunately you haven’t got what you wanted, you clearly have a very simple view on nutrition, and a concerning lack of intelligence.
What is an egg? It is a vessel to grow a living organism in a self-contained environment, providing all the resources needed to do so.
Resources such as:
- Vitamins
- Amino-acids
- Antioxidants
- Healthy, unsaturated fats
If an egg was so bad for your health, I ask you quite simply, how the hell do they support a chick during a very intense time of rapid growth?
That’s like saying being in a womb is unhealthy for a developing foetus.
Please, next time, perhaps try updating your knowledge to something a bit more modern than WW2 before “jumping in and correcting” anyone again. With the constant stream of AI slop onto the internet, the last thing we need is human slop too.
a concerning lack of intelligence.
This reads like you are so insecure you have to personally attack people to cope with your own emotions.
I have a health degree, but ok mr. Expert. Have fun with ur heart disease. I’d just appreciate if you didn’t confidently lead others down ignorant health courses like “eggs are healthy” lol
Clearly wasn’t a particularly good university, and anyway, this is nutrition, not health.
Proof that degrees are meaningless and idiots come in all levels of educational achievement
“I disagree with your educated assessment… Better call you names to prove I’m right…” -this guy
If an egg was so bad for your health, I ask you quite simply, how the hell do they support a chick during a very intense time of rapid growth?
That’s like saying being in a womb is unhealthy for a developing foetus.
Is this sophistry? Do you know this is a pants-on-head ridiculous thing to say? Not sure what would be worse, frankly. I could list a thousand things that are essential to life and yet kill you if you eat it.
Eggs are well known to be harmful to human health. Here is a short fully cited essay on the subject that introduces 267 fully cited videos on the same subject. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/eggs/
Salmonella
You cook them, solved.
High choleserol
You don’t base your diet on 100% eggs, limiting your diet to any one food will be damaging regardless.
Prostate cancer
Sure, higher risk, from what baseline? Varies massively per-person, and people’s risk-tolerance is subjective… Personally I don’t really care.
Diabetes
Again, significantly higher chance, from what baseline? 0.02 is 100% higher than 0.01, misleading.
Fuck me you’re still going on about this? Man get a life with some real problems… Didn’t know people could get so pressed about fucking eggs.
I hope when I die my corpse is cut up, fried in my own body fat, and fed to pigs.
Fuck factory farms, things dont have to be this way. For this and many other wrongs in our world.
I hope when I die my corpse is cut up, fried in my own body fat, and fed to pigs.
Wow, this is legitimately fucking metal. Yeah, I do hope that, damn, that’s cool AF
Pretty much my stance on it. Things don’t have to be this way. They don’t have to stop existing in order to not be this way either. We can eat pork and not be cruel to the pigs we eat.
You need at least 16 pigs to do the job. So
be weary offind any man who keeps a pig farm.Same, but I wanna be secretly fed to my family like a reverse version of South Park’s Cartman and Scott Tenorman.
Context: My family are cunts.
We don’t really have factory farms in Australia, but holy shit the consistent difference in quality between free range and regular pork MINCE from the same shop is insane
Here is a map of factory farms in Australia: https://www.farmtransparency.org/map
Take this with a large grain of salt, the criteria of the locations on this map is they are locations know OR SUSPECTED to be engaging in animal cruelty or exploitation. And not all of these locations are in operation currently
But we absolutely have a ton of factory farms unfortunately, this is why it’s important to shop as carefully as you’re able to.
That seems to be a map of all farms? How do you filter to factory farms
Not even just farms, tour companies too?
It is already filtered to factory farms. Although as I said, take that website with a huge grain of salt. Their criteria for what they add is pretty loose, as you’ve seen.
My point was just that we definitely have factory farms Inghams for example operates over 300 farms across Australia and New Zealand
Your point is severely diminished when you have to tell someone to take your evidence with a grain of salt.
well, to say there are no factory farms in Australia is absurd and they presented zero evidence of that. But you’re right
I disagree. They are very likely the worst of the industries in seeing here. Not even in just one way either.
Don’t give industrialized ag a pass. i get why you did, but you can get bacon without Oscar mayer.
Yeah vegan bacon is great :)
I’ve had terrible experiences with vegan Bacon so far, which brand do you like?
I usually just get the store brand ones but there’s plenty of brands to try. I’m not trying to guess where you’re from to know which brands are available to you, just try them out and see which you like :)
You don’t have to guess where I’m from to tell me which ones you like.
i was just making sure you were pretending to like vegan bacon anyway.
Here’s the store brand ones in a pancake as proof
long-time vegan here, this argument is as old as time.
is it ethical to kill? no.
do humans need meat to survive? no.
is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery? yes.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
bonus fun fact: pigs are smarter than dogs
Even just a general reduction of meat consumption in the populace could eradicate this kind of farming.
“Reduction of slavery could eradicate whippings”
Abolish it
Yeah, good luck with that. I guess you don’t understand how humans and humanity work. Without incentive, you can’t expect humanity to change anything, especially if the consequences don’t affect them directly.
Theres also a difference between having a factory farm and having a normal more traditional farm, ignoring that is just deliberately being obtuse.
“There’s also a difference between having a full plantation and a couple helping hands at home”
Abolish it
Good luck with that. I wish you well with changing the mind of some 6 or 7 billion people, with your and the previous commenters attitudes, I’m sure you’re going to win everyone over.
Reinforcement of the whole “vegans are insufferable” trope I guess.
changing the mind of some 6 or 7 billion people
You think we needed to change everyone’s mind before we abolished human slavery?
🫡
Never let perfection be the enemy of good.
Why is it inherently unethical to kill and eat animals? Let’s say I raise some free range chickens on my land, consume their eggs and occasionally eat one. Why is this unethical?
I’d argue it’s unethical to kill animals inhumanely or to force them to live so long they suffer like we do with many pets
Good question :)
-
Most people imagine only female chickens which means the male chicks are killed soon after birth which is unethical
-
Chickens eat their non fertilized eggs to recoup the nutrients it takes to lay them so stealing them has negative consequences for their health (eg fragile bones) causing which is unethical
-
The idea itself that you can take something from someone else just because you are stronger or smarter and they can’t stop you is the mindset of an oppressor or a bully and is inherently unethical
- Is easily fixed by just not killing the male chickens
- Is easily fixed by giving your chickens nutritionally balanced food
1 is easily fixed
Then why does everyone I know who keeps chickens in their backyard only have female chickens?
🏃♂️ 3? 🦢
I agree with you on point three, so I didn’t list a response.
The animals are also guilty of #3 , but two wrongs don’t make a right
Yea, what animals do is not considered ethical in plenty of cases. We wouldn’t kill someone else’s baby because “lions do infanticide too” right :p
- has nothing to do with the ethics of killing
- again, the same (especially if they are kept in good nutrition, shells returned, etc.)
- they aren’t a person, and that would make all of nature existing unethical
they aren’t a person, and that would make all of nature existing unethical
are you a person? ethics and morality are human concepts…
arguing that eating meat isn’t unethical because it happens in “nature” is like arguing you should be allowed to rape people because ducks do it…
-
Exactly, I do just this with my dogs and these fucking militant vegans always be on my case.
Amen 🙏🙏
deleted by creator
The argument is as old as time and yet yorie absolutely wrong about all of it.
is it ethical to kill?
Under many circumstances, yes it is.
do humans need meat to survive
Not all do, but approximately 1/3 humans have any one of half a dozen different conditions that make them unable to thrive on a vegan diet, even with the expensive supplements that price many working people out of veganism.
Is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery?
No, and you saying so is an insult to every enslaved human on Earth.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
Works cited: crackPipe.png
And your salad has much more exploited human labor in it than my steak has exploited animal labor. Maybe work on ending the exploitation of your own species before trying to equate your fad diet with ethics?
Just say that you cum in your panties a bit when you pay for the torture of sentient beings.
And where the fuck did you read that 1/3 of humanity cant go vegan? I cant find a single source on it
Just say that you cum in your panties a bit when you pay for the torture of sentient beings
Just say you love huffing the smell of your own farts and that the malnutrition has left you with brain fog too severe to figure out how to operate a search engine.
wrong on every account. (well, maybe not about pigs intelligence)
Very convincing argument from you here
I’ve presented just as much evidence as the user to whom I’m replying.
Caplyta is an anti-psychotic.
Do you really want to take that from me?!?
https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?color=19&sort=rel&maxrows=89
A blue and white capsule could be a lot of things, I’m not sure the original image is actually supposed to be any individual drug at all
Lol, no doubt you’re right. It just made me lol when I saw the image and immediately thought, “wtf did caplyta ever do?”
It could be made vegan. As someone who has to take nonvegan medication this and all the animal testing is a real issue.
What’s this from?
I think it’s called Orville?
Thanks!
What the fuck. We can do without factory farming!
Vegan bacon has become really fine though.
What’s the name of this product and what’s in it?
There are different brands, I don’t know where you are and what you can get.
Alright, well any tips would be appreciated whether directly useful or not
My personal favourite so far is Billie Green. Looks the part, tastes the part, gets crunchy in a pan but when you fry it you shouldn’t wait too long before eating or it it gets hard.
Interesting. Seems like it’s largely gluten based. Maybe I can find something comparable in the US. Thanks
I’m literally about to go cook some regular bacon right now, but this is completely true in my book. I’ve had some pretty good vegan bacon before, but I don’t know what brand it was.
Just eating it by itself was only like mostly still pretty good in my book, but on a BLT or inside some pancakes, I’d be completely fine just switching. Actually, I’m gonna try to find out what kind it was.
Edit: It was MorningStar Farms veggie bacon. To anyone that thinks all vegan bacon is trash, I’d recommend you give it a try
no it hasn’t
Yes it has.
prove it
Here, taste it.
Just let the pig live on a nice farm omg.
Whether you’re for or against factory farms, this is funny. Dark, but funny.
There are people who are really like this, which makes it a lot less funny. Same reason you can’t satirize the American Right anymore.
Like, the whole world is burning, and we really can’t get people to stop even the easiest things. Yeah the solutions should be systemic, but everyone’s against those solutions too.
It’s like a dead baby joke, but way more dead babies and the setup is the punchline.
Comment section makes me doubt the very obvious-seeming criticism here
Thought this was a shitpost… shrug emoji
