SlAvA UkrAnI!
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From the latest Perceptions of Democracy index, from NIRA Data:
Ukrainians are among the most skeptical of the democratic processes in their country. Meanwhile, even a country as hotly contested as Venezuela, faith in elections is skyrocketing. And this is gathered by a western org run by a NATO official.
As always, I would like to point out that these kinds of surveys of public opinion are not really evidence of anything besides public opinion itself.
You cannot assert that a certain country has more or less of some quality simply because more people in that country said they think they do more frequently than people in a different country did.
For example if you asked Americans (particularly those in the south or rural areas) if they thought their country was more “free” than the rest of the world, you would probably get higher numbers than you would from most other regions of the world despite the fact that America is not that free relative to much of the world.
Trends in perception, as well as comparison, does tell a good story. In many ways it’s a superior method of data gathering on democracy than the standard method of defining democracy as whatever the Nordics are doing, and then grading everyone based on how closely they follow that.
Direct comparison of perception of democracy by people who have lived in both countries would be much clearer evidence of differences in democracy itself.
However, the raw perception of democracy without any other reference to other democracies does not allow for comparison/measurement of democracy itself but rather indicates how happy individuals feel within their current democracy.
The data is a good story and it does encode information, but that information is more significantly influenced by culture, current events, and overall happiness of the populace than it is by “level of democracy”
Sure. When I mean comparison, I mean in trends. If a country scores lower in one year while another scores higher, and this trend repeats, it’s a sign of improving and decaying conditions. Democracy isn’t really something you can measure directly, which makes the entire subject pretty muddy.
that’s why I put quotes around “level of democracy.” If everyone in a country had to vote directly for any and all government action, that is kind of the purest democracy possible, but it would not be a very effective method of government especially for large countries.
In order to rank democracy in a meaningful way, one would need to decide on what the desired outcomes of a “good” democracy are and which outcomes are most important etc. which would make the scale subjective.
Even that would not be democratic, as it ignores the role of ownership of production and distribution. In a capitalist economy, such would still be subject to the same mechanisms preventing bourgeois democracy from following the will of the proletariat.
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If you follow the comment chain you’ll see me and cowbee talk about how subjective the term “democracy” is.
However, we can illustrate my point using proof by counter example. It is entirely possible to imagine two countries with the same government structure (and hence “democracy”) but with different answers to this kind of survey.
Imagine two nearly identical countries each with corrupt governments having the exact same structure and culture etc. The only major difference between them is that in one of the countries, a recent scandal has occurred which was able to bring to light deep seated corruption and criminal activity of many public figures, whereas similar acts are being committed by the govt. of the other country, but none of it has been brought so fully to light yet.
The citizens of the former country are likely to rank their “democracy” lower than the citizens of the latter would rate their own, despite the fact both governments have equal amounts of corruption. Hence, surveys of popular opinion of democracy are not directly indicative of the “level of democracy” or level of corruption or fidelity etc. etc… QED.
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So would you say, that actively hostile imperialist western nations and their propaganda apparatus know more about democracy in Venezuela than Venezuelans?
For example if you asked Americans (particularly those in the south or rural areas) if they thought their country was more “free” than the rest of the world, you would probably get higher numbers than you would from most other regions of the world
Maybe this data will surprise you then:
Haha funnily enough that’s the graph I first had this argument with cowbee about lol
Spain behind the US? LOL
Exactly, its just anecdotal evidence on a bigger scale
Canceling elections is totally fine if it’s our guy
Oh boy the reddit imperialists are angry with this one
I don’t see any blue states going along with any potential attempts by Trump to cancel the election. There is literally nobody who is going to invade mainland USA in the next 3 years. It’s just not in the cards. In Ukraine, women my age notice that 10% of their dating pool is gone (dead, moved abroad, missing?). The average US citizen is going to experience whatever obvious false flag, just something less impactful than 2020s “wearing masks”, even if that’s literally a drone strike from Latin America, and they’re going to cancel elections over it?
I still think their play is that if Trump is succeeded by another Republican or if Trump himself becomes too unpopular, they coup him, and we wind up with a military junta. The libs would be so busy applauding their ‘saviors’ that they wouldn’t even notice their rights being taken away until it’s too late. I think the capitalists are tired of democracy, and want to be able to drop the pretenses without ceding control.
Just for factual correctness (don’t actually care about your opinion) - no Israeli election was cancelled. Bibi himself lost an election in 2020.
Ukraine being less democratic than Israel is not the gotcha its supporters expected
As I said, not going for any gacha. Also not versed enough on Ukraine politics to comment. Just saying that no Israeli election was cancelled (we’re going to have one in a couple of months).
Decided a while ago I don’t want to get into internet arguments, big waste of time which can be used for more significant things.
I didn’t even meant to argue, just wanted to put it into perspective for lurkers. We could even go further and note that there is huge support for genocide in various forms and methods in Israel, but Zelensky got explicitly elected on his promises of deescalating and stopping the civil war.
What part of martial law do you not understand?
A country being invaded can be and will be overthrown if possible. In fact, it’s been done many times in European imperialist history.
That’s why the clause exists, even before democracy was normalized in Europe. Just find someone else in line for procession and install a puppet prince.
It’s even been abused. Some speculate that Trump would trigger martial law to stay in office - or even Netenyahu himself clinging to power.
In the end you don’t want a captured government. That’s also historically been really bad.
Ukraine already has a captured government. 😜
Letting democracy exist is bad because then the government might change hands.
Gotcha.
Read history, bro - instead of suckling at the feet of Putin. Martial law does not exclude democracy, as democracy is more than national elections and representative democracy (not that you’d know anything about that) - but a change in government can actively sabotage defences and weaken a nation to be overrun by a foreign agressor 👏 while 👏 the 👏 nation 👏 is 👏 being 👏 invaded.
But tell me how Maripol being leveled is somehow good for renovation plans.
Go back to reddit
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Why is this comment formatted like an AI wrote it?
Because AI are glorified statistical models that steal all of histories texts and tries to replicate language using median and average?
EDIT: alt accounts for consistent -2 down votes is such Reddit behavior.
You joined lemmy last year lol
I’ve been jumping platforms for years. Sopuli is Scandinavian, which is why I joined it. But nice “gotcha”.
Back to Reddit with you.
Fucking dork
You obviously don’t get it. He had a reason to suspend elections AND it was legal for him to do so. Totally fine then.
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so much pro russian propaganda in the meme channel, crazy
Actually, the opposite.
Crazy to see many imperialist supporters trying to justify Western capitalist puppets/allies
I’m not saying the US is good, that’s classic whataboutism.
You made a classic ad hominem attack since you had no proper response to the meme.
I replied to see your reaction and it confirms it then.
Whataboutism is a made up propaganda concept popularised by a zionist and spread by the CIA.
I’m not saying the US is good
Just that everything it says about its geopolitical rivals can be assumed to be true.
