I was raised to address strangers and those I wish to show social deference to as “Sir” or “Ma’am”. It’s a difficult habit to break, as it is deeply engrained.
What is an equivalent gender neutral honorific that is relatively common in English? If I can’t break the habit I’d rather have a substitute word to use instead of an awkward pause in the middle of addressing someone
I’d just use Google to ask but I’d rather ask the people directly rather than an AI generated answer based off of Reddit threads
ETA: I suppose if Yessir and Yes’m work, Yesn’t could too? Mostly joking… but maybe… 🤔
“OI CUNT” 🇦🇺
Mage
I’ve seen enough posts related to etymology or historical use of words where they, either misrepresent the facts to fit a narrative or just make shit up, that I try to look it up my self. I also find etymology fascinating so that helps.
In this case they are absolutely right.
Both Mr and. Mrs,ms are derived from master and mistress (teachers) and both of those words stem from the Latin word Magister.
Edit: fun fact the English verb stick is the same word as the noun stick and comes from the same origin the Germanic word stik which also meant a piece of wood and to pierce/adhere or sharp. But wait it’s older than that the Latin word stigare also means pierce. And share the same ancestry, namely indo-european. Turns out we humans have been talking about sticks for a long time.
…why not just “magister” and avoid a word that already has very strong, current connotations with fantasy?
…crap, I’m cis male and I wanna be addressed as “mage”…
You can just do that ya know. Just be a wizard. Tell people to address you as such. Don’t even have to be trans you can change your name and everything
I work with magical lights that spring forrh from runes written in gold powered by ancient ichor and magic rocks.
I am legit going to use Magister as a replacement option for Mr/Mrs. It’s formal, archaic, and gender neutral. That’s the trifecta right there
FWIW, Sir is gender neutral in the military — this came up in Star Trek Voyager, anyway. Basically if your senior officer isn’t male, they’re sir until they tell you otherwise.
FWIW, Sir is not gender neutral in Gamestop.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
GameStop has Wendy’s now?
Yeah, Wendy’s nuts are loose but your manager “borrowed” the socket set and now your clearance display is on the ground.
Wen deez nuts are loose
It means I’m getting old…
Sir is gender neutral in fictional militaries. Every woman holding a commission I ever encountered was ma’am. Didn’t matter the country.
Yes, Star Trek is fictional.
But the way you’ve formatted your first comment is “this thing is a military thing, as can be seen from this fictional military” which doesn’t necessarily imply said thing is fictional even though the military you’ve used as an example is.
Sir hasn’t been gender neutral in my military for like 30 years at least
Not really…
Like, yeah, probably in Star Trek, but that would have been a projected evolution of modern society, not a reflection of current reality.
Everyone would assume “sir” and if it’s over an email no one is getting worked up about it.
But call a female officer “sir” to her face and I don’t think it will go well
Not sure what military you served in, but the one I served in definitely didn’t call women sir until instructed otherwise. However, “mister” may be correct for all warrant officers.
I served in the US Air Force. Everyone was “Sir” or “Ma’am” and it was very gender-specific. Even for the few years we allowed transgender folks to serve (before Trump banned them), you referred to them by their preferred transition title.
We don’t have warrant officers in the Air Force, so I can’t speak to their title of address.
Same, USAF but decades ago. It was actually the USAF protocol office I called to verify the “mister” address for WO. Not because we had them, but because they still have protocol for how to address them, generally army chopper pilots if I recall.
eta: I should also clarify that I don’t know that to be true. It could easily be one of those ID-10t situations where somebody tricked us into calling protocol and they went along with it. Could be complete bullshit.
When I served (2002-2022), we were always told that warrant officers are technically officers, so treat them the same as any officer. So we would’ve addressed them as Sir or Ma’am if we came across them. As well as saluting them if we met them outside.
I don’t recall ever addressing anyone as “Mister” in the service. Heck, I retired a few years ago and now I feel weird when people call me Mr. [Last Name]. I got so used to being called by my rank and last name for 2 decades. Mister just sounds wrong.
Um, Starfleet… as mentioned (Star Trek Voyager… Star Trek’s Starfleet is inspired by the Navy).
I never served… Mostly due to health reasons
Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you were using the Star Trek reference as just a supporting claim that militaries follow this practice. But I see now you meant only in that context.
Yeah, I meant that Star Trek did it, and Star Trek is (supposed to be) based on the Navy, so as one who’s never served, I really only have Star Trek Voyager (which had a female captain) to go by.
With female bosses, I’ve always asked them if they want to be called sir or ma’am. It sounds like a good way to catch hands, but if you ask out of respect and good faith, chances are you’ll be answered in kind.
No, I got yelled at when I didn’t see.
Comrade
Some of my friends use “yes them” jokingly to replace yes sir/yes ma’am. Certainly not correct in any grammatical way, but it does flow well enough and is kindof funny as long as the person being addressed doesnt mind.
Personally, I like “Sir” as in the Star Trek/Orville usage. It did happy things to my brain when the crew on the Orville referred to Commander Kelly Grayson (a cis woman) as “Sir”, respectfully referring to her by her proper title as a commanding officer. That was cool. I like the gender neutral “Sir” a lot.
But for casual usage, “Friend” or “Neighbor” is nice. “Hey, neighbor, you dropped this.” “Excuse me, friend, lemme reach around you here.”
I also like this interpretation. It’s the same gender neutral connotation as the Cali surfer “dude” or “bro” used equally with everyone.
I am a believer in the gender-neutral California ‘dude’. But only if it’s used by someone from the West Coast.
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Yeah I think “sir” trumps madam because it’s professional
Ran into that problem with my enby friend. Specifically in the jokey context, like when a friend asks you to do something and you say “Yes Sir!” Or “Yes Ma’am!” in a kind of over the top way. They hadn’t really thought about it either and they were flummoxed too. We wound up with “Yes Colonel!”
Yes chef!
I’ve asked people to call me ‘it’. Hasn’t happened yet.
Yesn’t, I can do that
I thought ‘it’ was a third person pronoun.
Ok so reading the comments, from Appalachia, and I didn’t see it about anyone specific.
So the reason why nothing seems correct is because nothing new will have the same level of cultural history. If you’re trying to show social deference to people things like “friend” or “pal” won’t work, and “chief” sounds too informal.
You can still use “sir” and “ma’am” under most circumstances, so the question is more about your circumstances.
Are you trying to find something that replaces those honorifics all together, or do you want a backup third option in case someone says they are non binary?
Are you still in the same culture, or have you moved to a culture that doesn’t emphasize honorifics like you were raised with?
You’re amazing and so are your questions.
I’m looking for a third option for sir/ma’am, and a substitute for Chief that’s a bit more formal.
The culture I’m in now is not as formal, this isn’t so much finding something to work within the culture of this area as it is to marry my culture to the one I find myself in. I have very little to connect me to my people here and so the traditions I choose to keep are more important as a result. I like saying sir/ma’am. It’s the verbal equivalent of holding the door open for someone. But for some people being addressed that way is invalidating, and I want to meet people where they are, not force them to come to me.
I like Magister as a third option for Mr/Mrs., and Professor as a more formal Chief. But sir/ma’am has me stumped
Well if you want to keep a similar motif, Cap’n is vaguely formal, vaguely military esque, and it’s gender neutral. Could be seafaring or land based.
You probably won’t find anything with the same level of formality as sir/ma’am, so you’re going to have to compromise a little bit on that front, but I think people will like the attempt regardless!
Not OP but I think that’s a darn good suggestion.
Reminds me of Dana calling Dr Robby «Cap» on The Pitt.
I truly admire your intent in this quest of yours. Admirable.
♥️
Clearly we need to start adopting Japanese honorifics that way we can just call people -san.
There’s like, 20 or more honorifics in Japanese. I think that -sama is more culturally equivalent for the Appalachian sir/ma’am, but those honorifics, iirc, usually have to go with a name or a job or something, while the Appalachian sir/ma’am can be used with strangers.
RoboCop “citizen”
I love this question and the discourse it’s spawned!
personally I’ll use “friend” if I’m at all acquainted with the other person or bend over backwards to not use one if I’m not. not too hard to leave it out if you try, and like anything becomes second nature pretty quick.
that being said I do use “chef” a lot, especially the phrase “heard, chef!” and I haven’t worked in a kitchen in almost a decade lol
Just say Y’all, it pretty much covers that
Cant go wrong with “Partner”
“Scuse me Partner, is this seat taken?” Still slaps if you say it confidently enough
Got any of that good sarsaparilla?
You here lookin for the Sundance Kid too?
Chief is the only correct answer.
I often call people chief. One time I started to say Yessir, realized midway the person I was taking to might not appreciate the label, tried to change lanes and say Yeah, Chief, and wound up saying Yes Chef.
We had a really good conversation about The Bear TV series afterwards
I mean chef literally means chief
