Drop Site News reporter Ryan Grim noted that, in addition to striking what appears to have been a defenseless boat, the US also didn’t help rescue any of the shipwrecked men who were aboard the vessel.
“The Sri Lanka Navy was left to pull the dead bodies from the water,” Grim commented. “I am hard pressed to think of any other nation throughout history that would do something so cowardly and despicable. We are genuinely in a league of our own, and American media—mostly shrugging off the bombing of a girls school and acting as if carpet bombing Tehran is a normal military tactic—is deeply complicit.”
They torpedoed an unarmed ship and watched as everyone drowned. This is the US military under a drunken white supremacist fratboy working for a senile pedophile rapist.
Typically submarines aren’t in a position to offer refuge to shipwrecked sailors, but to my recollection there hasn’t been submarine warfare since WWII. They sank a ship that didn’t present any threat and likely could have been neutralized with a number of alternate approaches.
Yup but also, the idea of submarines providing rescue went out the window. Even the nazis were trying to rescue people at one point, and the allies attacked them after they broadcasted their rescue attempts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident
The US has the most powerful military in the world. This was just cruelty
US carrying out war crimes since World War II.
Since before that.
The UK used submarines during the Falklands war.
The decision was made to sink an Argentinian warship. Critically, they didn’t attack the escort ship. They left it to recover the sailors. Apparently it horrified the British command when it ran, leaving sailors in the water.
A simple radio message “Move and we will sink you. Take no offensive actions and we will give you 5 minutes to launch lifeboats first.” Hell, even a sonar ping would have given them half a chance.
Iirc, its an unwritten law of sailors… You rescue anyone at sea, even the enemy if you can. Drowning is a horrible death.
You at least do what you can to give them a fighting chance.
A radio message would have at least let them abandon ship in a (semi) orderly manner. Hell, even a solar ping would have got them into life jackets.
Normally, a sub wouldn’t risk this. They knew in advance, however, that the ship was not currently armed.
I’m pretty sure it’s actually a written rule.
Hey hey whoa whoa whoa, hold up there friend. You forgot Christian nationalist death cultist and pseudo-crusader-wannabe.
This is the US military under a drunken white supremacist fratboy working for a senile pedophile rapist.
The sailors are just as much to be blamed for executing the order as the commanders who sent it.
Like he said in a speech: “We kick the ones that are already down.”
Who was the sub captian that obeyed the illegal order? Name rank and serial number please.
It was not an illegal order. And it’s also entirely possible the captain didn’t know the status of the ships ammunition supply, or lack there of. Not that it changes anything from a legal standpoint.
But, it being a legal target doesn’t change the fact that it was cowardly. Both are true.
So why is it a legal target. As pointed out, no state of war exists. So the boat wasn’t a legal target. But if we hand wave that away, not picking up the survivors is clearly against international law. And I can even hand wave the part about orders being legal, but I still want the names out there, I want the public to know that this captain left those men to die against every tradition of the navy and international laws/rules/guidelines. Public pressure can help ensure the next Captain stands up against such orders.
You seem to have some misconception of what constitutes a legal target and what doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if you are at war or not. Warships, are military targets. They are valid targets. You do not have to be in war to sink one. But it’s probably going to start one.
And no. It is not illegal for a submarine to remain submerged. Submarines are not expected to conduct rescue operations. They do have to do something. Notifying someone else as to where there might be survivors, is something.
You are only required to conduct a rescue operation if you think it is safe to do so. You are not required to rescue sailors if you believe it could put your ship in danger.
None of this means you can’t feel the way you do. That’s fine. You think the captain is a coward and scum for not helping them. Sure, I’m not trying to take that away. All I’m saying is, the order was not illegal. The act was not illegal, and the aftermath was also not illegal.
I’m really not sure why people are hyperfocusing on the one instance where the US didn’t commit a war crime. You have so many other things to pick from… why die on this hill? They bombed a God damn school for girls.
The article references the geneva convention as the document that requires rescuing the sailors. So that is where that part comes from. It is of cpurse unlikely to be as simply worded as that. So lets agree it may not be strictly speaking illegal. However, illegal is whatever the prosecutor decides to prosecute for and that the judge agrees is illegal. In some cases a jury too.
But let’s put that aside. My goal was to identify the person who was the last person to reasonably expect to reject the order. In this case the captain of the sub. Name and shame. Give people in that position in the future at least some reason to pause and think before doing such things. Just following orders doesn’t cut it at that level. If not from a legal standpoint, then from a moral one. We need to shine a light on those people, let them know we know what they did. Make them live with that.
Again. This wasn’t an illegal order. There’s nothing for a captain to interpret as illegal. They’re targeting a warship belonging to the enemy.
If a captain just blatantly refuse orders, because they have a moral problem with it, rather than a legal one, they’d be subjective to court martial. They could end up prison for a very long time. Or worse.
Everyone that has served in any country. Knows that you as a captain/pilot/sailor/infantry, mechanic, whatever. You don’t have all the information. You have to trust your superiors and their superiors that they know what they’re doing.
So unless you’re given a blatantly illegal order. You follow it. Because other people’s lives may very well depend on it. I don’t think the captain was the person that should reasonably reject the order. Partly because you have no idea what information that captain had available to them.
You do you. If you want to name and shame people you will do that regardless of what anyone else thinks. But the reasons you’ve laid out does not support your argument that the captain is the problem.
So I wasn’t talking about the strike as much as not aiding the sailors. Sinking the boat, while reprehensible, would be a hard order to defy. Rescuing the sailors until other help arrived though. That would be reasonable to do, even if ordered not to. Leaning on the Geneva convention as support may not save a person. But it would still be the honorable thing to do.
If the US had other ships nearby, closer than Sri Lankas ships, and still deliberately chose to not help the sailors in the water. That would be utterly reprehensible.
As for the submarine, I can understand why they did not want to surface.
The entire strikes are illegal as the United States is not in a state of war with Iran.
Besides, “I was just following orders” has never and will never be accepted as a justification.
It might be illegal under US law. I wouldn’t know. I’m not a US lawyer. But what I do know is that it’s not a war crime. And it doesn’t break any “international law”.
The international body that is supposed to look into these things would be the UN security counsel. At which both US and Russia are permanent members and both have veto powers. So good luck getting anything done there
They knew it was unarmed it was leaving an event that involved unarmed ships, an event the US backed out of and then had a sub attack a ship they knew to be unarmed.
Seizure would be arguably legal, sinking it is not.
I understand you feel strongly about what happened. But that is not going to change that it was a legal target in war.
There are lots of things that are legal, but still cowardly and shitty to do.
There’s no law that says you can’t rip off a giant fart outside a restaurants outdoor serving area. It would be legal. But incredibly shitty.
An unarmed boat is not a warship as per international law. They fly flags that state they are unarmed as this one was.
Quit equivocating.
It is still a military warship. Surely you don’t actually think countries can just put up an “unarmed flag” and expect their warships can safely make it across to a dry dock or for rearmament.
How do you KNOW it was unarmed? Because they had a flag up? Because they said so? Because India boarded the Iranian ship and conducted a thorough search of the entire interior? I’m genuinly curious as to how you are so confident it didn’t carry a single shell, rocket, torpedo or missile.
You cannot possibly think any nation at war would let an enemy warship sail by without consequence just because they claim they’re unarmed.
If Russia sailed a warship right outside Ukrainian waters with an “unarmed flag”. Do you think Ukraine would just let it be? Oh damn guys, they say it’s unarmed. Guess we have no choice but to let it hang around…
It’s a military target, it isn’t a warship. When deployed unarmed to naval exhibitions they are deployed as auxillary, it’s the same as training ships.
Because it was boarded and inspected to take part in a fleet week of sorts, yes.
You can when it’s beyond combat zones and flying flags signaling peaceful intention and being unarmed. There’s a proportionality issue when it comes to striking military targets and moreover there’s an obligation to rescue crew.
It wasn’t anywhere near Iran unless you are somehow under the impression sri lanka is adjacent to Iran. And Ukraine tends to abide by normal military conventions so yes if they knew it to be unarmed they would likely seize the ship and not sink it.
Iran:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#/media/File:Iran_(orthographic_projection).svg
Sri lanka:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lanka#/media/File:Sri_Lanka_(orthographic_projection).svg
Location of sinking : https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/3188/live/10450900-17e7-11f1-b048-c9424b2cf5fd.png.webp
I cannot help but laugh at your notion that Ukraine would let a Russian warship just sit outside of their waters simply because Russia said it was unarmed. Seizing something isn’t always possible.
You can absolutely engage enemy military targets regardless if they are within “combat zone” or not. With the sole exception if they are within another nations border. That is something that would make it more complicated. But that wasn’t the case.
Naval vessels are not required to rescue sailors. They are requires to take all possible measures to redcue sailors. Which can include rescuing sailors. If possible. There is a huge difference. Sometimes it is not possible to conduct a rescue operation. For a plethora of reasons.
One being that submarines do not want to surface unless they have support of other vessels.
Another is that submarines are generally not equipped to conduct rescue operations. Nor equipped to handle POW’s
A third would be that submarines generally do not have what you would call a lifeboat. Because first of all, where would they even keep one? And secondly, they are submerged, at times several hundreds of meters deep. They don’t need a lifeboat, they need a system to send their crew to the surface.
If they deploy all of them in the hopes that a few Iranian sailors might find them and climb aboard once they inflate at the surface. What are they themselves going to use in case of an emergancy?
Hot take, if you elect a person who showed in their first term a total disrespect for international, national, and martial law maybe the kind of people you have in the armed forces aren’t likely to be any better. The smart, moral people who also were high enough in the chain of command to matter have likely been purged or jumped ship to something less problematic.
The naive belief that any laws matter at this late hour is hard to understand, and harder to respect. This isn’t going to blow over and “go back to normal.” Which incidentally wasn’t great either.
Well, I less care about prosecution that isn’t going to happen, and more about name and shame. That can do a lot to shape future behaviour.
the whole thing about following illegal orders is complete bullshit and impossible for military personnel to follow… it’s just a pretence so the Murican military can claim moral superiority
Honestly, I don’t expect the rank and file members to make a stand. But a sub captain… I do. And from that person all the way up the chain that gave the order. I don’t expect this DOJ to do anything. So I just want names for now. And I want them public so those people can’t go anywhere without being known as the ones who failed to stop the illegal order.
Its crazy how the whole world is to much of a pussy to do anything to the US.
The US has the single most powerful military force in the world. So when a deranged orange psychopath who has the ego of a cracked eggshell has access to the nuclear football that can call upon the destruction of life as we know it, you’d be careful too.
Okay you maybe right however if no one won’t do anything about it then don’t bitch about it.
What exactly do you think I should be doing?
Almost as crazy as how US citizens are too much pussies to even vote, let alone do something about it. Also up there with whining about others not taking care of US citizens responsibilities.
I very much agree as well. I’m not defending the US but it is what it is. If everyone is to pussy to do anything about it then it will continue and there’s no reason to complain.
During the state of the union speech, Trump PROUDLY said that people are afraid to go fishing around Venezuela
That should be an automatic declaration of war.
Aren’t we, like, way past that point…?
Iran certainly thinks so
When you blow up their leader then keep bombing their cities, that usually is a good reason to think so.
Also because Trump keeps calling it “war”.
War™*
*For legal reasons not an actual war.
Not according to Congress.
*Special torpedo operation
Why Hegseth? He didn’t push the button, but some idiot to whom ordinary Americans would shout “thank you for your service.” “I’m just following orders” is not an excuse, many such people were shot by the Nuremberg Tribunal for war crimes they committed because someone ordered them to.
The submarine commander didn’t do this unilaterally. He was clearly ordered to do so, and that order would have come from Hegseth or Trump.
Because responsibility starts with leadership. It’s a very simple concept that current leaders ignore and we pay the price for.
No one was shot as a result of Nuremberg trials. And only, like, nine people were hanged as a result of them.
I hope the sub mutinies.
In the calmest of times submarines have poor connectivity with the outside world, so there’s no telling what they’ve been told.
They have been told that they are to engage with any Iranian vessels and to disregard international law (including the Genova Convention and such.)
German chancelor said this too. It seems all these elites are already “in” on it.
They’re told to be warriors!
/s
You joke but warlord Pete probably has said that
All of this is happening because Israel is blackmailing American Pedophiles into war.
These murderous pedophiles will do anything to distract from the Epstein files.
Release the Epstein Files
Cowardly and despicable… in other words, Trump’s entire administration.
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I see no reason to fight fair, why put our troops at unnecessary risk?
I also can’t think of a reason why we wouldn’t capture their unarmed ship, or at least give them ample opportunity and “incentive” to surrender. Honestly, the greatest show of strength is the ability to show compassion and humanity to your enemy. Think of how much power it would project to capture a whole warship, hold the crew as PoWs, treat them well, and return them well fed and cared for?
Instead, we blew them up and left the survivors stranded in the ocean for other nations to assist.
One way to not put your troops at unnecessary risk would be not to start unnecessary wars.
Yeah, that too, but we’re talking about the US… Unnecessary war is like the trademark move of the republican party.
the ability to show compassion and humanity to your enemy. Think of how much power it would project to capture a whole warship, hold the crew as PoWs, treat them well, and return them well fed and cared for?
Woke. being woke is why the US keeps losing, so stop being woke and start winning
I shit you not, this is how these morons actually think.
More than 50% of the US voted for this.
About 100% of the US have no issues with this. Or when did you start opposing your government in another form, instead of complaining online? Other governments have been overthrown for less.
Anyways, fighting for the US or Iranian army is quite stupid nowadays. Nothing “proud” if you fight for a fascist or religious leader.
It was under 49% of under 66%, or 32%, tops who voted for this. Still heinous, but I suppose that doesn’t fit the narrative of “most Americans are terrible!”
By your logic, Europeans 100% don’t have any issue with what America does because they fall in line and do America’s bidding most of the time. Otherwise, they would have effectively changed their government(s) to one(s) that do not go along to get along, instead of just complaining online, right?
Sure. Just ignore what Germany does, because their Chancellor is a dipshit, too. Now tell me again what Spain did recently? Seems like you forgot that majority of Europe does NOT play along
I wish none of them would play along. But I don’t vilify every citizen of the countries that do.
Yep, and what said the Nazi in court, when he was asked why he killed hundrets of Jews? “I just followed my orders”.
Guilty as fuck, so is every single service member or government employee.
Says guy online, also doing nothing to physically stop the world’s largest military or assassinate that nation’s horrible leaders.
Oh fuck off. You know what would have been a real easy way to stop these cunts? If fucking American dipshits had gotten off of their fat fucking arses and voted against him. The American people are solely to blame for these arseholes, nobody else. Own it.
“We are a powerful nation, so we can do nothing to stop this.”
Impeccable.
Why should I? You are aware, that there are people living outside the borders of the US? And they all give zero fucks.
The Iranians are fighting for the survival of their country against the nazi pedophile coalition. thet are in no way comparable to those fighting for the nazi pedophile imperialists, despite many aspects of Iranian governance being unsavoury.
Okay just ignore the fact that 30k protestors were killed, the oppression of literally anything for decades and the killing of anyone who raised the voice against the Supreme Leader.
I was going to give a proper reply explaining the historical and geopilitical context, but I realized it would be like arguing witth a German in 1941 why I want the Soviet Union to win the war rather than the Reich, so I’ll ixnay that. May Iran continue to strike hard at the American and Israeli aggressors, and may they humiliate the nazi pigs for all the world to see.
Oh I agree, Israel has to be gone, and the fascist ‘muricans, too. But I also don’t mind that Khamenei is dead, as religious extremists are not one bit better than a zionist or nazi.
I’ll take moderate shia theocrats over nazis any day, but I digress. The truth is that Iran’s government has hardline factions and moderate factions. Outrside aggression makes the hardline faction stronger, and if America just left Iran alone, the moderates would eventually be predominant and Iran would eventually moderate into a secular or quasi-secular state.
However, at the same time the moderates are also the more neoliberal faction, while the religious conservatives are more economically progressive - kind of like Sharia law social democrats, in a sense.
And you know what is funny about all the shit Israel now caused? The CIA is actually very good at overthrowing foreign governments from the inside. It probably would have worked for Iran, as there are too many people remembering the good old Persian days. But Bibi and his right wing Jews just made everything worse, even for the citizens of Israel and Palestine.
The plan of economic sabotage and infiltration probably would have worked, but they’ve gone and shot themselves in the dick. They just can’t help it!
More than half of America did not vote for this. Stop making stuff up.
People who don’t vote are part of the problem. That’s how democracy works. I know, ‘muricans struggle to understand this concept.
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