Many of us know how bad modern cars are for privacy. Yet many of our friends and neighbors do not realize how intrusive it really is. I linked a blog entry from Mozilla’s investigation about car privacy. In that blog is a link to their make-by-make analysis. The amount of very intimate information a modern car collects is honestly appalling. It includes health data, real time mood information, weight gain or loss, and so on. And it does so even for passengers.
The web has many resources talking about this problem, but almost no resources on what to do about it. I know the simple thing is to say, “just drive an old car bro!” That’s fine if you can, but not everyone can. Also it has drawbacks like more maintenance. Sometimes less safety if it’s older than certain safety features. For the purpose of this thread, it is more interesting to focus on newer, surveillance enabled cars which are the majority of what people drive on the road today.
Some people have figured out how to bypass the surveillance package on some cars. One way is to uncouple the antenna it uses to phone home. Other times you can bypass the telematics module or remove a fuse that powers it. I feel like we really need a central model by model repository of information.
Past that, how do we prove it has worked, if we do it? Has anyone reading this tried to use an RF detector to see if their car is still trying to phone home, after they have bypassed telematics? What are your experiences? I want to buy one and use it to test my own car, but the info on the web seems sketch.
Spoiler: Not a single brand received Mozilla’s Best Of designation, though researchers identified Renault as the least problematic. The European brand must comply with General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), a stringent law governing the way in which personal data is used, processed, and stored.
I already got a phone why do I need another one strapped to my car?
Sleeper old car for privacy: the gmt800-cateye full size Chevrolet/gmc pickups or suvs.
You’d think they would be terrible for it because they often have onstar, but that version of onstar uses a 2g connection that literally isn’t in service anymore!
Still driving a 2010 because fuck them!!!
I don’t have the time or energy but if someone wanted to create a database with all the known ways to disconnect cars from relaying data for everything known searchable by make/model/year they’d be pretty fucking awesome.
Just bought a '22 Bolt because there was a guide to terminate its 4g antenna here: https://imgur.com/gallery/step-by-step-guide-to-disable-onstar-on-2022-chevy-bolt-this-is-reversible-not-permanent-n00QKnH
That’s awesome
It’s designed to be hell. I primarily know about Honda’s practices as a relative bought a new Honda and ran into the same issue laid out in this article.
I drive a vehicle that’s over a decade old and have joked with friends and family that if I have to buy a new vehicle I am ripping the whole dashboard out. I imagine I may get blacklisted from local dealerships for my demands, but that is the world we live in.
have joked … that if I have to buy a new vehicle I am ripping the whole dashboard out.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Weird how Renault and Dacia scored least creepy, Nissan most creepy. They’re in quite a tight alliance these days.
Other than that, completely in line with big tech and governments: most US brands are more creepy than most European brands.
When I had to reluctantly buy a used car, I made it a point to buy a used car no newer than 2015 and this is why. Well this and touchscreen mania.
I don’t think touch screens are going away, sadly.
Which is why I will never buy a car made after 2015 if I can possibly avoid it. If I were writing the rules,
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My car should not be capable of pay-walling any features
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Just like my phone, I should have fine grained control over what data my car shares and with whom
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No vehicle controls that may need to be accessed while driving should require more than one click on a touchscreen to access
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Any touchscreen UI should be easily controllable from a steering wheel type d-pad
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No non-entertainment vehicle controls should be primarily accessible from a touchscreen
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Any controls that affect the speed, position, size, or access of the car should only have secondary touchscreen controls that are upstream of any failures modes in the primary physical control; in other words, a UI control should only be a backup method for important functions of the vehicle, and they shouldn’t be able to break the main method if they break
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We just got a new car, first “modern” one I’ve had basically ever, and this has been one of my biggest concerns since we got it, but there really don’t seem to be any straightforward solutions yet.
For sure. We’re in a difficult place. Arguably the ultimate solution has to be regulatory, but we don’t have that yet. All we have is whatever the community can figure out on its own. The more surveillance gets integrated into complex automotive systems, the less approch-able it is for average people to yank a fuse or unscrew an antenna coupler.
Constantly play music/fart noises/whatever from an external source while you drive to minimize the audio data collected.
Aside: don’t buy into the myth that older cars need more maintenance or cost more to maintain. Its an excellent sales pitch to convince people to keep upgrading but it’s not always reality. Modern cars can easily cost more to repair and maintain than older cars because more technology = more that can break. Car manufacturers have, over time, crammed more and more proprietary parts into cars which they can then charge exorbitant amounts for and force you to use their mechanics rather than your local.
I have both an 25+ year old Toyota that’s still going strong and still only needs basic maintenance (parts are also easily available and cheap). I also have an ‘older’ Nissan Leaf EV that is very little maintenance and has nothing in it that reports back to Nissan. It’s got a nice balance of technology and most things we can maintain or repair ourselves if we want. Parts for this are also easily accessible and cheap.
I also highly recommend people learn more vehicle maintenance themselves (easier of older cars with less tech) so you can either do things yourself and/or you’ve got more knowledge yo protect yourself from mechanics and car dealers who try to scam you by repairing/replacing things that don’t need it.
I’m pretty new to Lemmy and noticed that my post was crossposted to fuckcars and privacy@programming.dev. I have no problem with that, but I didn’t do it on purpose!
Fun fact: at least one of the fuckcars mods cares deeply about this issue, to the point that he only owns older cars to avoid telemetry.
(Source: it’s me, I’m that mod.)
Anyway, don’t be shy; feel free to crosspost on-topic stuff like this there yourself if you want!
This comment means I’m gonna go sub there lol
Oh, I see. I thought maybe I did it by accident somehow!
I bike everywhere when I can. I’ll join the fuckcars group, now that I know about it.
Look at Slate Auto if you are in the usa. I heard about this on the Privacy Guides forum. There is a possibility of them moving into Canada, which has got me interested.
Oh, nice. Canada & USA have cooperated closely for a long time on regulations for cars, so manufacturers only need minor tweaks to sell into both markets. Hopefully that’ll help.
My next car will be an air cooled Porsche for many reasons this being but one.
Some vehicles have privacy policies you can opt out of. What I’d like to know is if that works.
I was able to opt out with Toyota for them selling my driving data and for them sending my data to the dealership. I was not able to opt out of the ATT LTE connection because ATT sent me in circles on their automated system and then kept hanging up on me.
