Afternoon everyone,
I wanted to go over a few points related to pricing, stats and the roadmap
Pricing
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Sync for Lemmy is completely free with ads (the same as Sync for Reddit)
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You can remove ads in the account picker or drawer for a one time fee of ~$20
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Sync Ultra also removes ads but it’s not required
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I’ll be working on regional prices over the coming weeks
There are now 24k installed users up from 100 the previous day!
I’m going to be spending the next few days going through all of the comments / messages and fixing any crashes.
As always thanks for the support and hope you’re liking Sync!
Lj
Edit: testing edit
I just wanted to say I’m sorry for the backslash you’re getting for charging money.
I’m also sorry people expect it to be $1 because the Reddit app was $1 back in 1825. I genuinely believe it’s children complaining, because no functioning adult would complain about a price increase when rent has tripled or quadrupled since the $1 Reddit app. It’s also annoying to see that people think that saying they bought the Reddit app for $1 and enjoyed it for 10 years is an argument. It goes to show it was severely underpriced.
It must be frustrating to have that type of response. Lemmy users seem to be really entitled when it comes to software, and the response you’re getting scares me for the future. I really hope the Boost developer doesn’t cancel his app after seeing how entitled Lemmy users are being right now.
What frustrates me more is the people complaining are continuing to use the free open source apps. Like great, you already have an alternative you prefer. Shut up. Stop bringing others down.
I wish you the best. Thank you for choosing to develop for Lemmy. I have my eyes on Boost, but I’m gladly using your free tier for the time being.
Thanks again!
I paid 5 dollars back in 2016, and I was fully expecting to pay more for this version. 20 dollars for no ads is fine by me. However, I don’t feel like the 100 dollars for lifetime ultra is worth it. Maybe someday when I feel like those extra perks are worthwhile
I think his only mistake was offering lifetime at all. Nobody knows the future of Lemmy; people are seeing $100 and getting a bit of a shock, we could buy two AAA games for that. A couple of dollars a month or annual is easier to justify. Then, if Lemmy does become the next big thing and lasts 20 years, the developer is taking a big hit. Lifetime at that price feels like there will be a loser for either the user or dev.
I paid like 80 bucks about a year ago. And here I am rallying for ljd to keep providing a solid client that works the way I want it to.
I followed like sheep, and baaaah take my money.
What bothers me with this controversy is that it’s not clear for me how one can earn a living in the lemmy ecosystem if everything is FOSS. Also, one should understand that the app is in beta, but there was so much hype around that app.
What is unclear? If someone makes an app that improves the user experience and they charge for it, then that’s exactly how?
Lemmy is still FOSS, doesn’t mean everything that interacts with it has to be.
That’s not what the majority of people bitching that Sync is bad simply because it’s not FOSS would have you believe.
The controversy is just silly to me. I didn’t hesitate for a second to pay for the app. I’ve spent literally thousands of hours using Sync for reddit. $20 is nothing for that.
FOSS is great and all. But the attitude that everything should just be free no matter what is exactly why the internet turned into the data mining ad supported hellhole it is today. I am very willing to pay for things I spend time using. I honestly don’t understand thinking any other way.
People aren’t allowed to have opinions unless they’re positive?
You should learn the difference between an opinion and attacking/bullying.
You’re allowed to have an opinion.
👆
LJ,
I too am a reddit refugee. I like what you’ve done with this place.
:)
But we have to talk about pricing and privacy.
Pricing: tbh I see not much wrong with the 20 bucks. But I do think that you should take 2 bucks from that and donate one to the lemmy org (this is not reddit, nobody is getting paid, the lemmy devs also need an incentive) and the other one to lemmy.world because that’s the instance you’re dumping us all on. Hosting is not free, lemmy.world costs money and probably a lot of time to run. Being a reddit admin is a payed job, being Ruud at lemmy.world most certainly is not.
In this way “we” are giving back to the Foss community and it should silence a lot of critics. In that way you don’t look like the evil capitalist earning a quick buck over the back of free labour of the foss community. I think that’s 2 bucks well spent.
Edit: same goes for ultra subscriptions of course, a similar percentage should be fed back to the lemmy org and lemmy.world.
Privacy: since you’re using admob and I forgot the other one, privacy is out the window. That’s a big issue for the Foss community we’re all relying on. Maybe it’s wise to point out that once you pay for sync all that tracking that admob and the other one (not you I hope) does is out the window.
Edit edit: maybe you could also add a yearly reminder to donate to the users favourite lemmy instance.
I’ve said quite a few times but the ad library isn’t initialised if you pay to remove ads.
LJ, first thanks for doing this and bringing us here. You’re a big reason for the spike in lemmy traffic recently and it’s very promising.
I just wanted to add my $0.02 that the pricing to remove ads seems prohibitively high. I think you could encourage more lost redditors and former reddit Sync users to try this out ad-free with a very low price point. Give it some sort of marketing hype term like “Founder’s Premium”: a one-time payment of $8 gets you sync for Lemmy with no ads, forever. Available to early adopters until Sept 1st.
Maybe add higher priced tiers for those who have the cash and want to essentially donate / thank the author, and give them bells and whistles like fancy custom name and flair styles to show off.
Lemmy is new and unknown to a lot of folks. Sync feels like coming back to sit in your favorite comfy chair, but in a strange and foreign house. So people are going to be wary. Asking them to either subscribe or pay a huge one time premium is going to discourage folks at a critical time where they should be encouraged instead.
Hi LJ, I’ve been reading quite a few sync posts and concerned about the privacy topic as well. If this is the case that the ad lib is disabled with purchase, it really needs to be laid out more obviously because it had me looking for alternatives.
$20 is enough of a barrier to keep out new people. I was considering maybe trying it out until then.
I don’t remember what I paid for RiF years ago, but it was a lot less than that. Heh, I looked it up. November 27th, 2013 I paid $1.99 for RiF. January 4th, 2014 I paid $0.99 for Sync for Reddit. I never used it, but apparently I had it.
$5-$8 seems much more reasonable. You’d probably even make more money through volume. $20 is prohibitive.
Edit: Oh God, it’s $20 per year?!? Is that a joke?
Edit: Oh God, it’s $20 per year?!? Is that a joke?
No, it’s a one time payment just to remove ads.
Removing ads is a one-time fee as stated in the OP. There’s a separate subscription for additional features but it’s not required. You’re free to disagree with the pricing but try to understand the facts before complaining.
As a separate point to the dev, since it’s not just one or two people getting confused, perhaps a link to the one-off ad removal on the Sync Ultra page if it’s not there already?
Yea I immediately uninstalled when I saw the pricing. I paid for sync pro. The other free apps are more than adequate and don’t have ads. I’d donate if a percentage was included but honestly the subscription model for this doesn’t make sense.
Have you not been paying attention? Everything was a lot cheaper a few years ago.
And that apparently justifies literally any price.
Well, I don’t consider Sync to be overpriced. So clearly we aren’t going to agree on this. Not only did I buy Sync Ultra on both Reddit and Lemmy, for a time I further supported Ljdawson on Patreon.
I spend up to an hour a day in Sync. So even amortized over only one year (and I used Sync on Reddit for many years) that’s 27 cents a day. Chump change.
In addition, I view supporting the app devs as a boost to the Lemmy community. Isn’t app availability apps why many of us are here?
Polished apps will grow the fediverse.
I never said sync is overpriced at 20 bucks. I said he should give 2 bucks back to the Foss community.
Sync is not Foss so no, paying for sync does not mean your paying for Foss. You make lemmy more popular, that’s true. And by doing that you’re raising the cost of hosting lemmy.world which is ran solely on gifts from some users. We should do something to alleviate that.
I agree that we as a community need to figure out a sustainable way for the devs and maintainers to see revenue. I’m likely going to sub to the .world Patreon.
I’ll repeat what I said in some other thread:
I loved the old app, I still love the new app, it’s a pleasure to use compared to the alternatives I’ve tried, and I find the ultra subscription rate both reasonable and worthwhile to support a product I truly enjoy.
Sync is good for me. There’s plenty of other options if it’s not good for you.
Please keep up the good work!
(シ_ _)シ
I can’t afford the lifetime right now, but I will upgrade when I can. I hope this works out for you financially, Sync for Reddit was my most used all.
Have you got a roadmap for Ultra benefits?
(Fuck spez)
Yeah man…I am a dev myself but $20 to remove ads is just too much, especially without regional pricing.
I’ll be working on this full time and plan to make this the best Lemmy app possible.
I think the pricing is fine if the quality matches it. Considering how much time we spend on our phones it could be great value for money.
I’m very curious to see how the advertising option works out for you, as currently I’m not aware of any lemmy sites with sustainable finance models.
I wouldn’t call it financially sustainable. It pays for the servers, not for the labor.
No offense to beehaw, they’re doing great work.
That level of transparency is incredible, lowkey considering making an account there…
They like to keep a really tight walled garden. That’s why I left, I want to decide for myself which instances to block.
Yeah, I’m sure of it. Wishing you all the best!
You asked us and we told you to make it, so I’m pleased. I haven’t cancelled my sync for reddit subscription. Will that keep going to you, or will it cancel at some point?
I bought Reddit Sync Pro way back when you gave out coupon codes for a discount when you first created it. (just found my receipt… November 2013 for ONE DOLLAR!!!) Used it for what was probably a decade for that low initial price and watched it just get better and better over time.
I assume that I’m going to be using Sync for Lemmy for a decade, and I have zero issue with the upfront ad free cost.
Aside from regional pricing issues, I think some of these potential customers just don’t realize how much they’re going to be getting from you for this price.
Ultra Lifetime is really tempting…
Thank you for adding a one time payment option. Much appreciated.
Disagree. I think that is fair given the amazing quality of the app
Agreed. $5 MAYBE, $20 is out to lunch. And a subscription model for full features? Nah get outta here with that, that MIGHT be worth $20. The direction app development has gone over the last few years is a huge disappointment
$5 as a one-time payment is not enough for a single developer to sustain his livelihood on.
And ultimately, “worth” is based on what the market decides.
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Many of us former Reddit Sync users requested that he make the app for Lemmy, so in a sense we do have a contractor type of relationship with him. Hence why many former Sync users are comfortable paying the amount. I think a lot of people who are complaining about the price are just not the target audience for Sync.
I think you’re mistaking value for cost. ljdawson doesn’t work for us and sync is not work for hire. Lawrence is not a contractor nor do we have an employer/employee relationship so we don’t owe him a wage for the work he has done or compensation for his time. We have a customer/vendor relationship, and the only thing that matters to the customer is the value of the end product that the vendor is trying to sell.
This is a fair response, and ultimately it is incumbent on the developer to create the value-add that justifies the cost.
I suppose my comment is directed at the sentiment that the developer is “greedy” or trying to swindle consumers in an immature market.
I used it for nearly a decade for $2, so I figure it’s worth it.
This is by far the best app for Lemmy. By a mile. It’s a lot faster and nicer looking. That said, pricing feels a little steep. Imagine being able to sustain your livelihood on making an app for Lemmy, an otherwise free service providing no additional content. It’s not like we are paying the persons who invest in all the infrastructure for the servers running the Lemmy instances. They provide for the actual service. If a part of the money went to instance servers it would feel way better. Because if they go down, so will Sync.
Not taking anything away from the massive work Lj is putting into this, but pricing do feel a tad off. If 1500 people subscribe he has a yearly income equal to a decent job. If he gets 5000 subs he will earn almost 100 000 dollars a year. Which in Sweden equals to about 2.5 times of a well paid job. That’s excluding ad revenue from everyone who don’t subscribe or pay for removing ads. Pricing can be fairer without compromising the livelihood of said dev. That’s all.
Wha? A yearly ultra sub is 15 bucks. 1500x15 is 22500. 5000 times is 75000.
And that’s not ‘the same as a full time job’, not by a long shot. Google takes its cut - what, 20%? Then you have income tax, insurances etc, another 20-30% at least, and so on. So, for 5000 subscriptions, he’s left with around 42k at the end of the day.
15 bucks? So the conversion rate to Swedish kronor is messed up then. Because my yearly fee is way more than that. If I earned 42k dollars and continued to live in my house with my family we would be insanely well off.
42k/yr is basically poverty in a US city
This is insane to me. You can live in so many other countries with as high, or higher living standards and live the good life with that money.
I’m pretty sure his calculations were based on the monthly price, as for me monthly shows up as 2.99 per month. I’ll also say that including income tax in your calculation is crazy. We all have to pay income tax, but the income told us when we get a job or see a job posting is gross income.
Other than that, if you want Sync for lemmy and willing to pay for it, that’s fair. I paid 3 bucks for Nova Prime years ago and I have used it everyday. It came with me to every new phone I owned. I also redesign my layout quite often using it. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me to pay that amount monthly when Nova Prime was a one time payment.
Nope. Yearly. But I used the pricing for me, in Sweden. Seems the conversion rate is a bit off. Because my price is 19 dollars per year and the price for Lifetime is at 117 dollars.
No app is worth that, sorry.
Depends on your country, really.
Yes, in Switzerland you’re also told gross income - yet that’s not the ‘real gross income’. There’s lots of other stuff your employer pays for you when you get hired somewhere. For example, in Switzerland, we have mandatory retirement contributions (not like social security, we also have a pension fund seperately from this), that has to be matched by an employer, 1:1.
It really depends on your country, but say in Switzerland, you have to earn a good 30-40% more money when self employed compared to being employed at a company to have the same net amount of money available at the end of the day.
The fair pricing is what the market will tolerate. I’m not saying it’s 100% “justified”; even the dev understands that he needs to tweak it for other regions. But the value add is from the superiority of the app experience, which right now is much better than anything else available (for me; of course this is all subjective). In the future, perhaps other apps will achieve parity with Sync, at which time market forces will cause the developer to course correct on pricing.
I’ll also add that I purchased Sync for Reddit (Pro) for USD$2 nine years ago. If I get nine years out of Sync for Lemmy that’s a bargain at even 10 times the price (which is the current offering).
It’d have been nice if lemmy only had upvotes. Maybe I can turn votes off.
Beta 26 is already a MASSIVE improvement over Jerboa or the web client. Thanks for making this happen so fast!
As for the pricing, I was a paid Sync for Reddit user for YEARS. $20 is nothing for the countless hours of scrolling I got out of it.
Check out number 10.
Going to have a stab at regionalising ad free now.
Reply to this with your country and I’ll regionalise the pricing there.
India.
1700 rs is just impossible to justify where the median salary is 900rs per day
Yikes. That’s as if Sync for Lemmy cost 250€ where I am.
UK please.
What’s the current UK price? I paid £12.99 which I figured was reasonable given the amount I used Sync for Reddit.
Canada Eh! 🍁
Malaysia, because that’s 2 weeks of my lunch money.
turkey. Also while im at it could you maybe add some more font sizes? I want smth between extra large and huge. If we could select a specific number that would be even better. Props for the well designed app and can’t wait for the future (งツ)ว
Poland. It’s within EU but it’s not even remotely comparable to western Europe in terms of wages.
India please…
Mexico
Vietnam…thank u for the app :)
Brazil
Sri Lanka, please. And thank you for your hard work. Seeing your Sync for Lemmy announcement in-app in Sync for Reddit is the reason I joined Lemmy.
Sweden. And please double check the regional Ultra prices when you have the time, they seem way off to me.
greece, also I have an idea about adding more icons to the bottom navigation Bar
I paid already but please regionalize for my Canadian friends.
France please ! And thank you so much for your work.
Portugal
Mexico
Norway, please. The weak Norwegian Krone is kicking our ass here against the Euro, US dollar and GBP. The quoted $20 is $25 here.
México :D
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Ukraine
Vietnam
Qatar
good ol’ Switzerland
Philippines. Pls pls pls thank u.
India
Malaysia
South Korea
Italy
I’m all on board with FOSS, but I used sync for reddit for years, ljdawson has my support on Lemmy too. I don’t mind supporting a good dev. Do I prefer things be FOSS? Yeah, but I have no issues using a closed source product if it works. And sync has always been top notch. Responsive dev, all around good product.
I’m with you, I just wish pro was a separate app because I hate all the data collection garbage.
A part from the comments on the images, I think there is a bug with alignment because the first comment has 3 lines instead of one as you can see from this image
Working on a fix for this.
I suspect it’s sometimes because a mod removes the comment, I may be wrong.
It was actually an issue with how I processed comments.
All fixed now though!
Great to know, thanks!
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
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My wishlist:
- Downvote counts
- Mod tools
Today’s update added mod tools
Please don’t let the controversy get to you, I love this app mainly because I feel back at home. It makes sense that if someone has never used sync, feels put off by the pricing but I think it makes sense purely because of the smaller userbase and the amount of work that goes into an app like this.
I’ve used some other open source alternatives and they feel rough compared to sync
Smaller userbase of nearly 30 000 users in 24 hours. Sync will be huge!
I don’t have 20 dollars to spend on removing ads for a mobile app. I also previously bought Sync for Reddit Pro. Why is the price so much higher for a client to a service that definitionally doesn’t have API charges?
Lemmy has far fewer users and the previous pricing model was not sustainable for a single developer who makes a living off this app.
Could you please post a screenshot that shows how in app ads look like? I haven’t seen a single one as for now.
Not to wake sleeping dogs or anything, but uh I don’t see any ads. Where are those ads supposed to be?
Same, I haven’t seen any ads. I paid for Sync Pro back in the Reddit days, so wondering if this is somehow stopping them?
Are you using a ad blocking dns service?
Hopping on to the “I feel at home” train! One thing that really bugged me about the alternatives was that they weren’t as smooth and fluid. Like I scroll down and it jumps, I scroll up, it jitters etc.
Sync is the UI and the UX I’ve missed!
A few things I want to say:
- Congrats for the successful launch! I hope this project continues to improve.
- The ads aren’t very intrusive, they’re just banners in-between some posts and I’m fine with that.
- This app makes using Lemmy more attractive than using Reddit, which means that the goal of moving me far away from Reddit has been accomplished!
Amazing job so far. Here’s to the future of decentralized social media!
