I woke up today, to a public comment in a Lemmy community asking a series of tagged accounts why they had downvoted certain posts
I thought that reactions to posts and comments are anonymous and now I don’t really know what to feel about Lemmy any more.
In this case I had downvoted a poster because of its design, but was confronted publicly for being racist because the person assumed that I downvoted the message on the poster
EDIT: changed the title from “How” to “Why” because it broke rule nr 5 about it being a support question
I just block anyone who confronts me about why I voted a certain way. “Because I felt like it, fuck off cunt” is my go-to justification.
I like your style
Does that happen?
I crashed out once and DMd someone who had downvoted a couple of my comments because I overreacted and thought I was being targeted. I’m not a particularly stable individual.
Felt terrible, they were a good sport about it though.
Happened to a few times to me. Usually tankies criticizing why I downvoted Russian propaganda in unrelated topics.
Downvote, block and move on
Thanks! That’s is very helpful and also concerning
Not sure how I feel about this
Why is that concerning? The whole system was meant to be transparent
Not the OP, but i find it concerning because this enables creating a very detailed profile of a users interests, political alignment, medical issues, sexual orientation etc. Even if they never post anything! We should all know by now that there are bad actors actively using this kind of data in the worst ways imaginable. In the US this can already have life threatening consequences (ICE raids etc…)
This is not a good privacy oriented design and it exposes users in a dangerous way.
EDIT: About lemvotes.org. I like this site because it makes it obvious how dangerous this really is. For example I accidentally upvoted a really disgusting NSFW post misclicking on my phone. This will forever be visible to the world. I’m a documented pervert now. Good job.
i find it concerning because this enables creating a very detailed profile of a users interests, political alignment, medical issues, sexual orientation etc. Even if they never post anything!
So don’t interact. What you read isn’t stored, but if you interact, it should be public.
For example I accidentally upvoted a really disgusting NSFW post misclicking on my phone.
I agree that it’s dumb you don’t have a “my votes” page where you can remove that. But you can go to said post and just remove your vote.
So in a niche community we are now promoting that people don’t interact with said community if they care about their privacy at all?
Not at all. I’m saying you should interact and stand behind your interactions.
For example, you downvoted my post, which is fine. You also replied, which is also fine. Why is it bad that one isn’t on your profile (but it is public) and the other is openly visible in a list on your profile?
Interactions are by default public, otherwise there’s no point to interacting. I’d go one further and say that having the voting information public but not visible by default is by far the worst option.
Someone can spin up an instance and have votes federated to them anyway, so regardless of whether lemvotes exists or not, people can harvest your information.
just upvote and downvote a bunch of random things then your profile has been salted.
I had expected reactions to be encrypted, as it’s not a build in feature of Lemmy itself. If it was, I feel like it should have been visible, just like the modlog. There must have been a reason why the Lemmy devs don’t show a list of who up votes or down votes
Assume that everything you say and do online is public, unless explicitly stated (and proven) otherwise. The advantage of Lemmy (and Reddit in principle) is that your account is anonymous, it is not linked to your person. So you have some freedom to be who you want to be without repurcussions in your daily life.
Yes but it is frighteningly easy to identify users from post history if someone really cares to do it. You either have to never comment about anything personal, including providing your expertise since that can be somewhat unique, or mix in enough bullshit in a way that’s not trivial to separate from the real stuff.
If it would be encrypted, it would open up for vote manipulation. There are plans that mods will see who upvotes in their communities. Create multiple accounts on different instances if you need more privacy, separate personalities for different topics.
Create multiple accounts on different instances
Isn’t that manipulation too?
If someone has a problem with your alt they can ban it. If votes would be encrypted they would have to defederate the full instance where they come from.
Create separate accounts for privacy not for vote manipulation
I love it. It’s awesome. Also the Lemmy modlog. I love how open everything is!
Please wholly ignore people butthurt about downvotes. We all do. Voting does not warrant any explanation.
I solve that issue by having down votes disabled, I don’t have the capability to down vote or see negative scores. It honestly made my experience on the platform better as well, because it helps hide the hive mind mentality that the platform as a whole seems to have at times.
Feel this! ⬇️😆
I think you missed the point of this - I don’t mind down votes.
I am just surprised that (some) users will actively use third party software to identify who made them, and then confront them publicly
I don’t think it really matters, just don’t dox yourself and you should be fine.
Also you can have multiple accounts on different instances and stuff if you want.
And I don’t think you can tell that much by just upvotes and downvotes. I often times downvote stuff I’ve seen re-posted too much in different instances. I don’t want to see the same thing dozens of times ofc, doesn’t mean I necessarily have an issue with the content.
Lastly I bet most people don’t use that website anyway. I don’t. What good does it do me to see who downvotes me? If we disagree on something… that’s allowed.
The protocol is ActivityPub not ActivityPriv
I’m pretty sure the Pub doesn’t stand for Public, but rather Publish.
edit: not saying that it is private, just my opinion on whether the pub is an adjective or a verb
Still Publish, not Privish.
You are right but you can’t exactly publish something and expect it to be private
And what does publishing something do? Does it make it widely available to the public?
WHAT
This one is gold :)
If someone is posting about you downvoting them, then they’re a seriously flawed individual. Some people will take any reason they can to call other people racist. I think it’s a fetish, honestly.
You’re fine.
Who cares? Upvote what you like, downvote what you don’t. Who cares if someone has a whinge.
I mostly solve this by upvoting what I like and ignoring the downvote option, reserving it for advertisement bots and spam.
I think that having the voting record hidden in the client UI makes more harm than good to be honest and would’ve preferred if the devs changed their mind on tricking end users that voting is anonymous.The federated design of fediverse means that upvotes and downvotes must sync between instances and as such they’re not hidden or anonymous in any real sense. Anyone with a fediverse instance can see the votes.
lemvotes.org democratise this by allowing everyone, not just techies with their own instance, to see the votes.
One should know that lemvotes.org isn’t a perfect source of truth though, when I lefthand scroll I sometimes fat finger a downvote that I remove again. The latest downvote in my record is one of those.
https://lemvotes.org/ state I downvoted a post:
https://feddit.uk/ sees 75 upvotes:
https://sopuli.xyz/ sees 75 upvotes and I clearly have not voted:
solve this by upvoting what I like
This doesn’t solve the privacy issue. It still enables bad actors to create a very detailed profile of who you are, just by looking at the content you upvoted. Your interests, political alignment, medical/mental health issues, sexual orientation… just to name a few.
If you don’t sign in or don’t interact, then you don’t have anything to worry about. Reddit doesn’t make votes public but it definitely is selling your voting data as well as IP and location data to third parties.
Lemmy just publishes the data it needs to make activity pub work. If you don’t do anything that generates an AP action then there is no data on you that somebody can compile. I agree that it probably isn’t a good idea to hide the fact that AP actions like upvotes or downvotes are public, but that’s how the protocol works
Yeah, if you wanna lurk and not comment because you want to stay private then I recommend not voting at all.
If a person is already engaging in communities with comments like you and I are right now then I think the added details from our upvotes only strengthen what they already know from our comments.I think most of my upvotes are in comment chains like this, when I think that they add value and are on topic.
I had assumed that this was somehow encrypted. Especially as it is not a build in feature of Lemmy itself, to show who has reacted in certain ways
And that assumption is why I think the choice of the devs to hide it was wrong. They essentially tricked you.
Having votes transparent makes manipulation much harder and people much nicer.
I woke up today, to a public comment in a Lemmy community asking a series of tagged accounts why they had downvoted certain posts
Which community/instance did this? I’d like to block it.
(trying something: https://lemmyverse.link/quokk.au/comment/3048088 )
edit: not convinced, I still don’t know how to properly share a link of a post or comment in a way that all instances open it on their own
also:
hey @whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works I see you downvoted my comment, care to share your opinion??
fuck you!
No, fuucckk yoouuuuu!!!
Seems to work fine in Voyager, opens in my home instance. But presumably that’s a feature of Voyager.
You can’t, at least not yet. The only cross instance linkable is with communities. (i.e. !asklemmy@lemmy.world)
It’s to guard against bot accounts. I’d much rather have that instead of the clearly manipulated comment sections on Reddit. The pro-israel posting and down voting went away almost overnight when we got broader access and a few mods got called out about it. Go look at a comment section about it that hits all on Reddit, there’s clearly artificial voting going on.
It’s still not that hard to mess around but I’ll take what I can get, and I guess it does keep the racists away, even if it’s sometimes a false positive like in your case.
I agree that it is good with transparency, but then this should also be freely available on the Lemmy platform, and even the clients, in the same way as modlogs list what is going on.
I knew that admins could somehow go into the database and check who has done what, but I assumed that this was only the admin, and maybe even that the info was encrypted. It’s alright with me that it’s not, but then why not display it on each post and comment, with a list of interactions to it.
In this case, it’s this post:
https://quokk.au/comment/3048088Although, the comment where people were being called out, may have been removed (not sure if it’s because I have blocked the user, or they have blocked me)
I fully agree it should be transparent instead of a kind of trick you learn eventually. Won’t happen anytime soon though, the Lemmy devs are against the notion. They actually block lemvotes on their instance which is a bit ironic because they insta ban people for down voting a lot from what I understand.
If you want to maintain some sort of privacy when voting on any platform in the Fediverse:
Create an alt account, do not make any posts/comments with it, only use it for voting.Otherwise we would need an instance that generates a bunch of voting accounts. Then, when you vote on something, the instance randomly assigns that vote to one of their voting accounts and sends out that vote information to other instances. Then only the Admins of your home instance would be able to view your voting history.
also don’t do this because fuck that
That’s creepy! I down vote and am down voted constantly.
It’s also petty… But knowing that this is so easy to identify people behind vote activity fundamentally changes how I feel about Lemmy
The lesson here is that your assumption about how the system works is wrong.
That means can mean 1 important thing :
- it was not explained clearly enough for you during your onboarding.
Consequently I suggest you recall when you started using Lemmy, how you heard about it, how you then understood how it work and thus potentially update the documentation (or whatever you relied on then) accordingly so that others don’t make the same mistake.
Up voting for good discussion.
Locking for rule 5.
edit: Unlocked.
Because the original reddit made a lot of stupid-ass design decisions. The great Lemmy devs were smart enough not to blindly copy them.
I feel like the devs should then have a visible overview of who has up- or down voted each post and comment then. Similiar to the mod log.
I feel like you should stay away from making design decisions in this regard.
You are welcome to feel any way you want about me 👍
I know.
