Ah, the classic thought terminators. Add eating babies and pets next while you’re just saying shit. But while we’re on the subject of atrocity: do you think nazis might do those things? To, let’s say roughly 13,000 people in eastern Ukraine? Someone should probably intervene in a situation like that, don’t you think?
There are fascists in Russia, too. Russia and Putin strongly express elements of fascism. Putin does not care about Nazis in Ukraine. They were invoked as an excuse to justify the invasion.
Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
A carnival of excuses for the nazis actually running the show in Ukraine. Its interesting that you act like this war began out of nowhere, and ignore the 13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government for being “too Russian”. Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
Both sides of the conflict are indictable, but atrocities cannot be excused on the same basis as war.
Please clarify “13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government”. Casualties in conflict are not murder, much less murder committed by the “by their own government”, even if the conflict could have been avoided.
The Banderites, after taking power and restricting things like the Russian language, responded to Donetsk and Luhansk seceding by shelling them, killing 13,000+ civilians between 2014 and 2022. Have a Reuters link and a link to OSCE itself. Toss in Human Rights Watch for good measure. Plenty of good sources. The point is that this same Banderite regime had amassed a ton of forces in the Donbass region and dramatically increased shelling in 2022, which prompted the DPR and LPR to request aid from Russia, to which they accepted.
Both Russia and Ukraine have committed war crimes, sure. Russia isn’t socialist any longer and isn’t exactly a moral paragon. However, letting the Banderites walk into Donetsk and Luhansk and slaughter them would have been a humanitarian disaster, and the fact that the seperatists in Donetsk and Luhansk seperated due to the fascist coup is hugely important in this discussion.
The osce and hrw links say nothing casualties. The hrw strongly suggests that the shelling of a working kindergarten was done by russian backed separatists.
The Reuters article does back your number, buslt doesn’t suggest a campaign of ethnic cleansing by either side
I provided sources going over the fact that constant shelling has occured and resulted in civilian deaths, not just on the raw number. Further:
Russia-backed armed groups in the Luhansk region and the Ukrainian government blamed each other for the attack. Several military experts, including the open source media group Bellingcat, said that the spray pattern from the impact crater from the shell in the yard was consistent with the attack coming from the south, the direction of Russia-backed armed groups’ positions.
None of these mention rape, we all know you just threw that one in there to bolster your “the enemy is animals who cannot be reasoned with” claim. Same as Israel did with Hamas: pretend the other side is made of of mindless monsters so that anything your side does, no matter how fascist, is part of an existential struggle and therefore totally justified.
I appreciate the olive branch, but this is a thought-terminating cliche that serves to obscure understanding rather than advance it. What does wrong mean in the context of a war? A war is the end result of a series of actions and reactions that have no relation to what we think of as right or wrong. When two chemicals react violently with each other, which one is “wrong”?
All I am saying is, you don’t have to pick a side and defend their actions. Which you so often see in comments. “Well this is justified because they did X”
You can and should be critical of both sides.
Both have the power to stop the bloodshed.
Ah, the classic thought terminators. Add eating babies and pets next while you’re just saying shit. But while we’re on the subject of atrocity: do you think nazis might do those things? To, let’s say roughly 13,000 people in eastern Ukraine? Someone should probably intervene in a situation like that, don’t you think?
There are fascists in Russia, too. Russia and Putin strongly express elements of fascism. Putin does not care about Nazis in Ukraine. They were invoked as an excuse to justify the invasion.
Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
A carnival of excuses for the nazis actually running the show in Ukraine. Its interesting that you act like this war began out of nowhere, and ignore the 13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government for being “too Russian”. Your apologetics for atrocities is really disgusting.
By the way, what do you think the reason for the invasion is? Some braindead shit about “more land” or “wanting to bring back the soviet union”? Or are you so immersed in an action movie reality that you don’t even wonder, because there are simply Good Guys and Bad Guys?
Both sides of the conflict are indictable, but atrocities cannot be excused on the same basis as war.
Please clarify “13,000 Ukranian civilians murdered by their own government”. Casualties in conflict are not murder, much less murder committed by the “by their own government”, even if the conflict could have been avoided.
he’s talking about the campaign of ethnic cleansing your heroes were committing before the war started that led to the war
don’t know how the fuck you twist your brain into not calling it murder, but you are defending an openly nazi government after all
Who are my heroes?
Regardless, please clarify “the campaign of ethnic cleansing”.
The Banderites, after taking power and restricting things like the Russian language, responded to Donetsk and Luhansk seceding by shelling them, killing 13,000+ civilians between 2014 and 2022. Have a Reuters link and a link to OSCE itself. Toss in Human Rights Watch for good measure. Plenty of good sources. The point is that this same Banderite regime had amassed a ton of forces in the Donbass region and dramatically increased shelling in 2022, which prompted the DPR and LPR to request aid from Russia, to which they accepted.
Ukraine represses separatist movements, just like Russia and every other state.
How does it bear on Russia having committed atrocities?
Both Russia and Ukraine have committed war crimes, sure. Russia isn’t socialist any longer and isn’t exactly a moral paragon. However, letting the Banderites walk into Donetsk and Luhansk and slaughter them would have been a humanitarian disaster, and the fact that the seperatists in Donetsk and Luhansk seperated due to the fascist coup is hugely important in this discussion.
Oh, there was a separatist movement? How come, why did all those people all decide to separate?
I bet it was those dirty lying russians tricking them into not wanting to be killed by Banderites
The osce and hrw links say nothing casualties. The hrw strongly suggests that the shelling of a working kindergarten was done by russian backed separatists.
The Reuters article does back your number, buslt doesn’t suggest a campaign of ethnic cleansing by either side
I provided sources going over the fact that constant shelling has occured and resulted in civilian deaths, not just on the raw number. Further:
Actual examination of shelling shows that it’s Kiev that’s guilty. The HRW reports on the shelling and humanitarian impact, while playing vague at who actually was guilty.
What word do you need sounded out? What are you confused about? What needs clarification?
You were told the thing. Maybe punch it into duck duck go instead of folding your arms and digging your heels in.
Like the burden of you learning what you’re taking a strong fucking stand on should fall on the people you’re being oppositional towards.
The ones you slava
Identifying a few factions, dates, and names of the events would be a solid way to respond to a request for clarification.
Do you describe the Second World War as “bad thing where people died”, or could you think of more details that elucidate the events?
Whataboutism
deleted by creator
Oh so you’re saying they’ll start eating babies and pets too if they try to strike Putin’s house. Ok got it.
“Independent Legal Analysis of the Russian Federation’s Breaches of the Genocide Convention in Ukraine and the Duty to Prevent”
‘Знищують за те, що українці’. Правники та дипломати наголошують на геноциді в Бучі, " They are being destroyed because they are Ukrainians"
“Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence”
“Russia/Ukraine: Invasion of Ukraine is an act of aggression and human rights catastrophe”
“War crimes, indiscriminate attacks on infrastructure, systematic and widespread torture show disregard for civilians, says UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine”
None of these mention rape, we all know you just threw that one in there to bolster your “the enemy is animals who cannot be reasoned with” claim. Same as Israel did with Hamas: pretend the other side is made of of mindless monsters so that anything your side does, no matter how fascist, is part of an existential struggle and therefore totally justified.
Chill both sides can be wrong, that is normally the case in war.
I appreciate the olive branch, but this is a thought-terminating cliche that serves to obscure understanding rather than advance it. What does wrong mean in the context of a war? A war is the end result of a series of actions and reactions that have no relation to what we think of as right or wrong. When two chemicals react violently with each other, which one is “wrong”?
All I am saying is, you don’t have to pick a side and defend their actions. Which you so often see in comments. “Well this is justified because they did X” You can and should be critical of both sides. Both have the power to stop the bloodshed.