- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit…::People are dissatisfied with the technology in their cars, according to a new survey from JD Power. They especially don’t like the native infotainment systems.
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Some proposed design principles:
- It’s a car.
- It’s not a goddamn TV.
- It’s not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
- It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
- Because it’s a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
- They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
- Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
- If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
- There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
- If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.
No. 9 but for media volume, touch controls are garbage and gestures are even more garbage.
Looking at you, VAG.
A special place in hell is reserved for whoever the hell keeps putting capacitive buttons on cars, ESPECIALLY when they put them on the steering wheel!
Oh yeah those shitty VAG touch controls. Went to a customer with my employee in summer. When returning home we opened the sunroof to cool the car down quickly. Couldn’t close that mf for 10kms on the autobahn until everything cooled down. Absolutely horrible.
…who tf…which car maker has gestures? If you’re gonna gesture how about you gesture your damn hand over to the button?
I think mostly VAG (VW-owned brands) and BMW, maybe Mercedes as well. VAG uses them to sense your hand approaching the touchscreen to hide additional items “when you don’t need them”, BMW uses full-on hand waving to navigate menus.
No. 9 but for media volume
Thankfully, all cars I’ve driven that had a touch screen also had some media buttons on the steering wheel. I’d prefer to have good old physical buttons in the center console, but at least you didn’t have to use the touch screen.
Buttons on the wheel are better than a touchscreen, but they suffer from being all backwards sometimes, as you use the wheel for it’s intended purpose. The old Peugeots had this thing behind the wheel, you can controll the radio with, using just 2 fingers, without looking. It’s the peak user experience. Nothing will ever beat it. I feel a suden urge to buy a beer for whoever came up with it.
French cars regularly had sometimes strange looking but often quite useful quirks.
Dont worry.
They will make it all voice controlled in the future!
Why 10? It’s not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don’t mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it’s something I have to do during the drive.
Why 10? It’s not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don’t mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it’s something I have to do during the drive.
I have been saying this for years. The last thing your car should do is take your eyes off the road. This is a 1-3 ton box of metal hurdling at 60+ miles down the highway next to a bunch of other metal boxes that can all kill each other.
And car manufacturers seem to be in love with the idea of you forgetting you’re even driving. Add on all the bs lane assisting, warning bells, alerts, automatic correction, and the driver is convinced that the car will protect them.
These are all systems built on software. Last time I checked, that shit has never been reliable. If the software fails, the manufacturer can just hide behind “They weren’t paying attention!”
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT. I don’t know what I’m going to do when all the cars from before touchscreens and digital gauges are no longer running or affordable because I hate the idea of having to look at a screen to change volume or turn on the AC.
Modern cars can suck a fuck.
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT
Remember when a self-driving car killed someone walking their bike in Arizona, while the car’s “handler” was watching a movie on their tablet?
Yeah, the employee should have been paying attention, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself. That’s why commercial transport drivers have mandated breaks and why two pilots are in charge of an airplane at a time.
To be clear, I am in favour of self-driving cars and don’t think they need to be perfect, just better than the average human, but the companies training them need to have standards that are both realistic and safe.
but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself.
It wasn’t an 8 hour shift and watching the car was the actual job, come on! The driver was the tester. They were testing a system which wasn’t yet ready to go untested. The accident is entirely the fault of the driver in that case.
And it’s not like their reflexes were slower because of boredom. No. They were not paying any attention at all. They were watching a video. That is gross negligence and not the fault of the car or of the manufacturer.
I mean, these things are going to happen. But that person was attempting to cross 5 lines of traffic after crossing 2 just before. It’s a terrible idea to try that. Here is a picture: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/03/20/self-driving-uber-death/7ed17129da41763ed1c6f0bf194fa32d10bda7dc/accident-diagram-1050.png
The driver also ignored safety instructions. You can only plan for so much. Let’s say you put two drivers in the car. They could both be watching the movie and not paying attention. I have no sympathy for the driver being “bored”. I used to have a long boring commute. I listened to audio books and podcasts. I did not fiddle with my phone or watch movies. If you pilot a veihicle with autonomous driving or not pay attention. Most people can handle that just driving themselves around. This person had it as a job. No excuse.
I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Fucking touch screens for HVAC and audio controls are a menace though. How do regulatory agencies allow this?
Then there’s the fucking warning message not to look at your screen that starts every time I turn it on. 90% of the time I am not looking at the screen, so I don’t realize I have to click through their warning message until I’m already driving. All they achieved is distracting me and making me look away from the road.
I don’t understand why some cars have these warnings and not others? I drive a Tesla Model S 2014. I never get any annoying warnings or distractions that pop up. My dad drives a Audi Q4 Sportback. It has an annoying popup every time you start the car and will also randomly notify you about stuff that you do not really care about while driving? My mothers old Subaru also has a popup every time you start the car that you have to press okay on just to use the fucking radio. So you can’t get in and go you have to wait for it to display it’s shitty little warning. Then press go, then start driving. And this is on old diesel. So it’s not like this is new.
I understand not everyone wants a touchscreen / large display in their car but coming from a Kia Sportage 2012, I am very happy in the Tesla, even if it ment losing some buttons. Most things are controlled with the buttons on the steering wheel.
I find it stupid as hell that there are conditionary alerts and changed UI when in “car” mode on phone apps, as well as Bluetooth pairing being disabled while driving.
I get it, they want you to not use the apps while driving. But you know what’s even more distracting than messing with a device while driving? Trying to troubleshoot unexpected UXs while driving
Not to mention that passengers exist. Convincing my friend to pull over and put the car in park so I can be navigator and DJ for our little road trip was certainly more distracting than just having an open and predictable UX
I was driving with Waze once, on the highway but first gear like 10km/h because trafic. A popup came and I wanted to discard it because I was nearly at my turn and didn’t want to lose it so I pushed the cross. By the small time I spent doing this, I was already going sideways off my lane.
Lesson learned. Next time it happens I’d rather stay in my lane and take the next exit. But fk the people putting Ads in my car. Let me focus.
I’m a techie at heart.
But the only thing my car needs to do is act as a Bluetooth speaker/mic for my phone, and have a wireless charging mount.
When I need to use the phone for GPS/etc it goes on the mount.
When I turn on my car it connects to my phone over Bluetooth and starts playing music. Even if it’s in my pocket (shorter trips)
It works, it’s fast, it’s simple.
The irony is all these fancy head units wait until you pull out of the driveway and then throw up a big on screen warning about distracted driving. That you then have to take your eyes off the road to dismiss by pressing OK.
It would be nice if there was a spot provided for a mount that didn’t require some stupid vent clip or suction cup. A standard that would allow us to use a smartphone or tablet and maybe even leave one in the car (outside chance).
when I got my current car, it had a stupid, dumb radio with a cd deck. I installed a cheap double dim with a touch screen on it and asked if they could replace the ashtray/powersocket thing. The piece they had that fit under the cover/door had a USB hub/charging station that I could drop a stack of phones in (including one connected to carplay/android auto on the new deck.)
that was worth the $20 to install it.
That would be awesome to have as an option in my car. Instead I get to use a window suction cup or (what I chose) replace the factory radio with a double din aftermarket head unit with CarPlay. I like CarPlay but would never want to have to rely on it for things like climate control or other similar functions. As a music player and GPS I love it. I hear great things about android auto as well.
Yup. My car is old enough it has physical buttons for the enviro and stuff. The only virtual buttons control the entertainment deck itself.
I just bought a 2023 Accord and all the actual car controls are still physical. The screen shows me my rear camera and CarPlay, I control everything else with knobs and buttons. So separating the important-to-operate-without-looking controls and the touch screen isn’t quite dead yet.
Good for you. I love getting in the car that is cool on a hot summers day because I activated the climate control from my phone 5 minutes before leaving or having a nice toasty warm car on a freezing winter day. I enjoy telling my car I want to go to an address I have not been at before and it navigates me there without having to press more than one button or inputting an address. I then enjoy a huge nice map both in the center cluster and a big display that shows a large map so I don’t have to squint at my relatively small phone on a mount. I enjoy telling my car what I want to listen to and it plays that music. I enjoy not putting getting my phone out of my pants pocked and into a mount. Especially for shorter rides. I also especially enjoy not having my car in for oil changes, not having to stop for gas, the car having a full “tank” every morning and other such comforts.
The car has it’s own spotify account which for me is great, because I listen to different types of music when driving compared to when I am using my phone at work or in the gym. Music services working the way they do these days it means it will suggest more great driving music when in the car and not music that is similar to what I listen to in the gym. If I want to listen to that the phone is of course connected to bluetooth and is just a input change away.
I hope you can continue enjoying your type of desired driving experience. But realize there are other perspectives. I am also a techie at home and at work ( Cloud IT-consultant, previously Systems Architecht, previously Technician ). I also do minor work such as changing headlights, filters, and 12-volt batteries myself. I know how to change oil on a car and do some simple home improvement stuff such as simple carpentry and putting in new flooring. But when I get in my car I just want it to be in the background and don’t be in the way. Just get in and go. Being in a Tesla is where I am happiest for now.
When the features are actually anti-features making you pay subscription fees for things that are already part of the car, and everything is buggy as hell, of course no one wants it.
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The mindless march for ever-more pointless tech in cars has pushed me into getting into classic cars more and more. Hopping into a old car is such a transformative experience. My smartphone connected through Blutooth into the stereo system is the most advanced thing in the car. The windows are huge and visibility is amazing. The ride is smooth and very forgiving. I can actually feel what the road is like because there aren’t 10 layers of computers and electronics between the steering wheel and the tires.
Nowadays, all these companies are doing is trying to use technology to solve a problem created by technology to begin with. I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines. I don’t need a sensor to remind me to look at the road, if the driving experience wasn’t so goddamn boring and devoid of fun and excitement to begin with.
I simply don’t need more shit in my cars.
I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines.
While I agree with your earlier point on more technology not always being good, I disagree on the point of sensors and cameras. A backup-camera and sensor can tell me about approaching cars that I’m not aware of/cannot see physically. Additionally, I’ll take extra reminders of cars when switching lanes at highway speeds.
I have been unlucky enough to drive behind a person on the way home for the past 3 days who does not look when she moves to another lane. She just moves. There has been a car directly to her left, and she just fuckin slides right on over.
These are the people I want cameras and sensors for. These people out here (America) in these giant ass cars feel so protected in them they just stop caring. If we can’t get them to stop being stupid I will have to depend on technology. I don’t want to depend on technology but here we are.
Yeah exactly, tech should only be in the form of safety measures like proximity alerts, lane stabilizing if you drift, cameras, etc. It’s when they complicate basic controls like HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors, etc that pisses me off. That’s not even starting to talk about other paywalls like a subscription for heated seats or whatever; also didn’t I just read that Mercedes requires a yearly subscription if you want to fully accelerate your vehicle?
Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls
I don’t know about that. I love the navigation system from my KIA, in my opinion it’s far superior to google maps. I even can set the destination remotely via the KIA app, so I don’t need to fiddle around once I’m in the car.
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there’s one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it’s cutting costs.
Touch screens break and wear too, and it’s more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.
Unless it happens during warranty, that costs money to the user not the manufacturer.
I don’t give a shit about the bells and whistles they’re adding to cars and the infotainment systems. I am absolutely LIVID that they are starting to lock bits of hardware (or the complete functionality of that hardware) behind subscription paywalls. If i ever buy a car and discover they’ve locked the heated seats behind a monthly fee, i’m tearing the infotainment system out of the fucking dash and leaving it on fire in front of the dealers house.
The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.
I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it’s only features and I’m fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.
I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
I have a 2001 VW TDi, the radio is a standard Double Din so I just replaced it with a touchscreen bluetooth receiver for around $150.
Ugh, I would kill for a small truck. I don’t need a truck I have to use a ladder to climb into with a bed that’s 4 feet long because the extended cab takes up the rest of the space. I love my 11 year old RAV4, but I would consider buying something new if small trucks actually existed anymore. Or, yeah, an electric car that wasn’t full of useless tech. I love tech, in it’s proper place, but my car is not it.
I sure do miss my old 2001 F150
There won’t be ANY car made that basic from this point on, though. Electric or not isn’t a factor.
In the US at least, backup cameras are required, so immediately you have a screen and a computer driving it. Adding in things like Bluetooth, gps, and phone interfaces are almost free at that point. It’s kind of like how power windows are just standard on everything too.
I have a 2009 Mazda 3 with Bluetooth connectivity and steering wheel button activated voice commands to make calls, configure the phone book and connections etc. This was the sweet spot for technology in cars in my opinion. Oh but the best part is all the dials and LCD clock are all in red light which is wonderful when driving at night.
Everything else I do via voice commands on my smartphone that’s mounted on a phone mount on my dash. Like asking for GPS navigation, playing music, sending text messages.
Nowadays the car infotainment system is trying to reproduce what your smartphone already does with controls that are less intuitive.
Also, what’s the deal with all the bright white and neon blue colors lighting up everything? Can I get a red filter for night driving maybe? Is that so hard to ask?
I have a 2016 Mazda 3, and agree. I don’t want a BS touch screen. I want intuitive controls that work without me having to look at a screen. The knob control is amazing.
how much money does your car typically take to repair and how often?
Yeah my 2011 BMW has Bluetooth for calls/music streaming, and a navigation system that I can split screen so I’ve got a mini map showing the names of upcoming cross streets next to my music info. It’s pretty much all I need and works great.
I’ve never had a car with a touch screen or whatever fancy centre panel - but I have scrapped old cars because the ECU decided that there was an airbag fault which was not resolved with a new airbag. I’m a full time sysadmin/developer - my car does not need a computer to go, and if it must have one, it shouldn’t be a brick covered in epoxy.
I somewhat long to return to dumb electromechanical components like distributors, rather than unimaginably expensive, irreparable, interdependent systems.
#RightToRepair
As a sysadmin/dev you should know its not a computers = bad situation. It’s God awful system implementation, trash software, trash components, and even worse redundancies.
It’s like you’re saying “why use email, when i can send a physical letter” in some aspects
But I agree these manufacturers produce shit products in the form of vehicle electronics.
My car is 17 years old. It won’t be long before I need to look out for a new one. Posts like these make me wary of buying a new one.
What would annoy me the most is having little to no physical buttons for trivial things, and the built in SBC to be slow as fuck. I hate lag on these systems. My wife has a smaller car with android auto and using the interface is just dreadful.
If there would be an electric car with the interior of my current car I would probably take it. It has a small chromosone display, just replace with a color one and let me control it with android auto and done.
Posts like these make you wary of buying a new one. At this point I see this so regularly though that I don’t know if the usage is even wrong given how many people use it
A lot of people use it wrong. Wary would be acceptable. Leery would be acceptable as well. Both mean cautious or suspicious. Weary equates to tired and doesn’t fit the context.
It’s still wrong… Don’t let the “language evolves” people convince you otherwise.
Buying a car should be a fun experience. Book a few testdrives and try to enjoy the experience. When looking for a new car there has always been several I disliked, but I always found one or two that felt comfortable in.
I have always seen the new car buying experience to be something to get excited about… except now. I am at the early stages of looking at what I want to replace my dairy driver with and like NOTHING is really calling to me. At this stage in the past, I would have already driven a couple of cars simply to take them off my shopping list or keep them on, and I haven’t bothered to test drive a single car yet.
What have you tried driving so far?
I think if you shop around you can get the kind of interface you want. I got a 2021 Subaru and they had just switched back to more actual buttons and knobs because people didn’t like the capacitive buttons and touchscreen. In my car it has a touchscreen for CarPlay so basically just maps and music and everything else is a knob or physical button. Things may have changed since too so ymmv. Good luck
CarPlay is the truth. All that built in shit is utter trash.
Android Auto for me
Airlines have started to ditch their on board entertainment system and allowing people to use their smartphones instead. Cars should be like this too. Simply allow us to plug in our phones to act as the computer for entertainment, navigation and climate control. Keep tactile knobs and buttons for fall back.
This trend is why I am saving to swap the engine on my car when it blows. I don’t like any screens in my car but a digital clock, and maybe a readout on the dash. I just want a fun, reliable vehicle with excellent AC, good safety ratings, and decent fuel mileage. Power windows are a bonus. Lol
I don’t like any screens in my car
I thought I didn’t either until I got a car with a built-in backup cam. Extremely helpful, and I feel vulnerable in a car without it.
In the US, they’re mandatory in all new vehicles.
I’d wager this is part of the reason for the ubiquitousness of touchscreens.
Yeah I didn’t think about that. I can see that being a good exception. Good point.
