- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Among the reciprocal tariff levels Trump announced:
China: 34%
European Union: 20%
South Korea: 25%
India: 26%
Vietnam: 46%
Taiwan: 32%
Japan: 24%
Thailand: 36%
Switzerland: 31%
Indonesia: 32%
Malaysia: 24%
Cambodia: 49%
United Kingdom: 10%
Rest of the world: 10%
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Is he using a random number generator?
bamboozle them with bullshit
Imma just post this video here: https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no
What the current administration is doing tracks with this video fairly accurately. Basically, “Network States” are what they want. It’s basically what exists in Honduras right now in the form of "Prospera, which is a network state that operates in that country.
The following quote from ChrisO_wiki on bsky
“@chriso-wiki.bsky.social Just figured out where these fake tariff rates come from. They didn’t actually calculate tariff rates + non-tariff barriers, as they say they did. Instead, for every country, they just took our trade deficit with that country and divided it by the country’s exports to us.” Just about sums it up.
Damn, I’d like to see the data on that.
No, it’s half the tariff those countries place on American goods. Or so he claims. I have no idea where those numbers come from.
It’s probably like his net worth, where “it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings”, “even my own feelings, as to where the world is, where the world is going, and that can change rapidly from day to day”.
https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/index.htm
Like he would even know what that is.
Apparently ChatGPT.
“our country has been looted, pillaged, raped, plundered”
by other nations selling their goods to us cheaply, and by them accepting our Dollars that cost us nothing to make for it!!
I don’t think Trump understands the benefits and privileges for USA of having the top international reserve currency.
But maybe if he ruins it quick enough, he may find out?Play stupid games and win stupid prices.
Play stupid games and win stupid prices.
He is playing Vlad Putin 8D Chess, not Donald Trump 1D Checkers. https://lemmy.world/post/27627662/16165977 This was all planned in 2013.
Introduction to the Kremlin media techniques of year 2014
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Peter Pomerantsev September 9, 2014: Russia and the Menace of Unreality. How Vladimir Putin is revolutionizing information warfare
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Adam Curtis, BBC, December 31, 2014: On The “Contradictory Vaudeville” Of Post-Modern Politics - “What this film is going to suggest is that that defeatist response has become a central part of a new system of political control. And to understand how this is happening, you have to look to Russia, to a man called Vladislav Surkov, who is a hero of our time. Surkov is one of President Putin’s advisers, and has helped him maintain his power for 15 years, but he has done it in a very new way.”
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Book reading from December 5, 2014 on the subject by Peter Pomerantsev
Own your president Trump. Even if your theory was true, and I won’t qualify it, nothing of this could have been possible without a ruined education system and mindless propaganda. All of this starts way before 2013.
Own your president Trump.
People need to own up to anonymous no-identity social media addiction. The egomania they get chasing junk (drugs) off of Apple iPhone / iPad / Samsung / machine devices. Donald Trump is entirely an Apple iPhone addict in egomania off machine lust, as too is Elon Musk.
nothing of this could have been possible without a ruined education system and mindless propaganda.
Nothing is more mindless than the education people get off of Lemmy memes, Reddit memes, Bluesky memes, Fox News HDTV, Joe Rogan. That’s the education that creates an audience for Donald Trump. Self-centered eoomania, like the Middle East gets with one religion vs. another religion. Fiction addiction problems are raging in USA.
Even if your theory was true
My theory:
“When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience, and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk; culture-death is a clear possibility.” ― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business, 1985 !BackTo1985@lemm.ee
I’d argue it started with Bush and his No Child Left Behind bullshit. It forced a certain curriculum to leave out common sense and critical thinking skills
I’d argue it started with Bush and his No Child Left Behind bullshit. It forced a certain curriculum to leave out common sense and critical thinking skills
Children aren’t the problem. it’s adults who get their constant education off anonymous memes. The year 2007 introduction of the Apple iPhone changed everything about USA society. We had the Fox News Rupert Murdoch problem since 1996, but the shit memes people flock to and “shit postings” addiction are the learning / education / study problem.
Shitpostinh education is very predictable adult education outcome. Cal Sagan predicted in in 1995: “Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding (from 1995) of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time—when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance. As I write, the number-one videocassette rental in America is the movie Dumb and Dumber. “Beavis and Butthead” remain popular (and influential) with young TV viewers. The plain lesson is that study and learning—not just of science, but of anything—are avoidable, even undesirable.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, year 1995
It’s like the USA won the Cold War and found themselves with nowhere left to go, exhausted. The state became less relevant by the year as it was intended by their neoliberalism, and greed is always everywhere taking over as many spaces as possible, it’s just its nature. But an ever disappearing government is just a milking cow, why it even exist if it’s been taken by the greedy? In this scenario, instead of being hopeful about its mere existence, because it should be one way for the people to regain power, it is just another way to take more wealth from the people, and an instrument to control them.
My point was that Trump, Trump-Putin, are just a consequence. The USA government showed critical weaknesses and they are being exploited. At the same time, you point it out well, the government found weaknesses of society to exploit. Americans should exploit them too, usually it’s done politically, but both of the American parties are basically the same (I know politically involved individuals do hate this statement, but from outside of the USA it’s very clear); it’s time for the people to regain power, and they will, this tariffs craze is gonna make them have to fight back.
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One of my main rules of life is that people are most suspicious of the behavior they are most likely to perform. Cheaters think they’re being cheated on, thieves think everybody is stealing from them. If HitlerPig thinks everyone else is looting, pillaging, raping, and plundering, its because that what he does.
Buying from other economies does two things. One, you have access to their expertise/efficiency.
Not everyone will have invested in the same industry.
Will miss out on cheap labour. Cheap resources.
Don’t be dumb though, selling us USD for our products isn’t just “printing paper”. We use those USD (mostly we sell the debt to china) to buy USA companies. It’s capitalism after all.
A lot of people’s lives are about to get more expensive… again.
<butterfly meme> Is this winning?
China and Vietnam are producing a lot of the low cost every day items people use. It’s going to hit the lower income people the hardest. Thank goodness I’m in Canada.
Timu: shop like a billionaire because only billionaires can afford the cheap Chinese garbage.
Shit might hit the fan harder and faster in USA, but don’t be fooled: Canada and every other country in the world will be gravely affected: less trade, prices inflate, some goods become hard to find at all at any price, etc. US $ after all is the big reserve currency and all international trade was de facto protected by US military hegemony. Probably countries like North Korea or Iran will see least influence from all this… It’s insane to watch this happening. Their main goal really just seems to be to create chaos. And from chaos… rises whatever authoritarian state they want to create after declaring some state of emergency shit and after the superwealthy gobbled up all the failing companies at bargain prices. It’s like they’re organising a reenactment of the “shock therapy” that crashed the Russian economy on a speedrun after the soviet union fell apart.
Mainly American people’s lives. He’s basically making everything more expensive in USA that is not made in USA, but most things made in USA are dependent on imported parts, fertilizers, components, raw materials etc… This is going to be a mess to witness
It’s winning for magats because they wanted to hurt people
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
um, yeah. we heard you the first 5 times, why do you keep reposting the same comment over and over?
I mean, this will suck in rhe short term, but these companies will exit the U.S. market if it gets to be uneconomical, and we’ll be fucked, not them. Trump’s I Am sO sMaRt comments all the time will make him look like an even bigger idiot than he already does.
If we actually want manufacturing in the U.S., give companies incentives to do business here. This is the opposite of incentives.
What is looking like more of an idiot than he already does going to accomplish? He’s the most idiotic politician in living memory, by far, and there are some absolutely colossal morons on that list. The people who haven’t figured that out are never going to. They will be praising him until the day they die.
Never underestimate the destruction that stupid people in position of power can do.
What is looking like more of an idiot than he already does going to accomplish? He’s the most idiotic politician in living memory, by far, and there are some absolutely colossal morons on that list.
He is a Reality TV star. People can not resist mocking Donald Trump. Mocking isn’t resisting, mockery is all part of the Kremlin media techniques. The more idiotic he and Elin Musk behaves, the more people rush to their social machines and LOL. People can not resist his orange skin color, it makes skin color a constant topic (brown, black, white, orange, etc).
Introduction to the Kremlin media techniques of year 2014
-
Peter Pomerantsev September 9, 2014: Russia and the Menace of Unreality. How Vladimir Putin is revolutionizing information warfare
-
Adam Curtis, BBC, December 31, 2014: On The “Contradictory Vaudeville” Of Post-Modern Politics - “What this film is going to suggest is that that defeatist response has become a central part of a new system of political control. And to understand how this is happening, you have to look to Russia, to a man called Vladislav Surkov, who is a hero of our time. Surkov is one of President Putin’s advisers, and has helped him maintain his power for 15 years, but he has done it in a very new way.”
-
Book reading from December 5, 2014 on the subject by Peter Pomerantsev
-
The effects of widespread tariffs is well known.
You will lose industry that makes high added-value products, and increase the production of products with low added-value. (Most people call this “deindustrialization”.)
Tariffs mostly don’t impact the overall trade balance, so there’s no reason to expect that one to change.
Except, for example many Canadians, who are really fed up with being the kick ball for American Presidents (Trump has a lot of company when it comes to tariffs), who will do their best to not buy anything from the USA. I predict our trade deficit will go in the opposite direction that Trump hopes. The USA still needs to buy electricity, gas/oil, wood, and various other raw products from Canada. We don’t have to buy finished goods from the USA since there are plenty of other countries to supply them. We really don’t need to vacation there.
AFAIK, most low added-value products the US net exports are food. Also AFAIK, Canada mostly doesn’t buy those, but the countries that do buy them won’t just stop.
And since we haven’t moved the needle on the minimum wage in decades, people will be making those low-added value products at starvation wages.
Well, yes, wages tend to decrease on that shift.
The glue eating rageaholic is doing the opposite of this. He’s going to tarrif farming EXPORTS from the US.
Never in our history has america had such a stupid president.
Wait, what?
If we actually want manufacturing in the U.S., give companies incentives to do business here
Like the CHIPS act? The EV and related items? Infrastructure? High speed rail (most of which has a made in us requirement)? What happened to those again?
The current administration is trying to pull the funding back even tho its been appropriated by congress. Funny how congress isn’t doing anything about it.
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
Conveniently left Russia out. I wonder why.
Russia and North Korea.
It’s official. We are the baddies now.
If we can’t buy anythibg from North Korea, what would be tariffed?
I am not.
They are rest of the World. How dissrespectfull.
I think you’re reading too much into that.
They’re either under “Rest of world” like the EU, or the US doesn’t import anything from it, which as it’s under sanctions, it shouldn’t - nor export to.
UK is also 10% like the rest of world. Why was it mentioned seperately? It’s not like Russia is a small country.
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Like the EU?
Ironically crashing the economy is one of the best things you can do to slow down climate change
Wrong.
The best things you can do are invest in green energy and energy storage projects, create polices that cap (and actually punish) carbon emissions, upgrade to more efficient infrastructure… All things that take money, a functional government and a functional economy.
What we learned from COVID, is that crashing the economy does not really slow down climate change, it just hits the pause button for a little bit, and then it resumes at the same or greater speed.
Not wrong. But I will point out that this will funnel a lot more money to China, which has been investing much more heavily in greentech than the US has. So overall it could actually be a plus - for climate change at least.
Just a silly joke of course. Gallows humor. In order to combat climate change you’d have to re-design how we live and work and our economic system and reset existing wealth inequalities, re-design and rebuild thousands of industrial processes, and change multiple systems that are in place. For example you’d at least have to:
- Ban advertising to reduce desire/demand for consumption
- Ban patents (at least in the current form) so industrial processes can be re-designed and rebuild without roadblocks
- Nationalize news and social media and turn them into a cooperative under the control of the workers there
- Invest into R&D for circular economy and development and regulation for long lasting appliances and goods that last decades with repair and maintenance
Basically what we learned is that it’s practically impossible for humanity as a global civilization to stop climate change. Most people can’t even bear to think about the steps it would take.
Of course, developing the technology for a sustainable circular economy for the basic needs (food, energy, education, building shelters, communication etc) is still worthwhile.
Sure, but he is just crashing Western economy as Russia is preparing to invade rest of Europe.
And just like that every American good costs significantly more.
If your family income is less than about $200,000, congratulations, your tax rate has at least doubled.
How much do I have to make before my tax bill goes down?
Last I saw, it was 360k.
I have to get bigger bootstraps.
Well, at least I’ve got that, I guess
isn’t this just going to fuck up the US economy rather than meaningfully affect any other country? you don’t fucking produce anything worth a shit anymore.
Trump has no idea how the economy works, his wealth is propped up by Russian oligarchs laundering money through his assets.
This move is almost certainly being directed to him through foreign agents the traitor has as advisors (though they consider themselves handlers) on behalf of Putin and other regimes hostile to the US who back door’d their way into the situation through his greed and lack of morality.
Also intentionally crashing the economy to hurt political enemies and cause civil unrest (mass government firings = lots of educated qualified people out of work, also drives down wages of other educated qualified people). Techo-fascist corporate cities and Gilead don’t need a Dow Jones index.
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This is really not true. The wealthy aren’t playing 4D chess with the economy, they are just as short-sighted behind closed doors. The Great Depression fucked a lot of wealthy people up and turned the entire nation against them. It can happen again.
Edit - and for the record, the abundance does vanish in a depression scenario. Factories shut down, productivity collapses. The world will literally extract, refine, process, and build less of everything. You can’t build a fleet of yachts without a functioning economy.
Just like how a rising tide raises all boats, a sinking ship takes everyone down with it. The billionaires think being on the life rafts will make them more wealthy compared to those that are sinking.
He is gambling on the fact that Us economy can hold off longer than other countries and they’ll cave
It’s like two people holding their breath bad for both but neither wants to lose
Cave about what though?
Tariffs. Donald wants other countries to have less tariffs on American products
Those numbers on his poster are made up and don’t reflect actual tariffs that exist and can be cut.
Yep, they just took the trade deficit to each country and turned it into a tariff 😆
Oh no. We produce stuff. The best weapons for killing people are made here.
Why the fuck is our media so bad that they blindly accept Trump’s bullshit line that the tariffs are “reciprocal”? Are they just stupid or have they been paid off? Do they not know the meaning of “reciprocal” or are they just too fucking lazy to question the White House’s rhetoric even a little bit?
The state of the United States makes me sick. We’re being robbed blind by the oligarchy in broad daylight while the media gleefully amplifies the administrations lies.
FYI , HERE is the most up to date list (including Turkiye, Israel and some others)
I don’t even have to click on that to know that Russia is not listed.
Are they just stupid or have they been paid off?
Neither one. they are in a cult. Donald Trump is entertaining / clickbait / meme leadership. The novelty of having a 78 year old man shit-talk on an Apple iPhone they can’t resist. They have brain damage from it all.
“When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience, and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk; culture-death is a clear possibility.” ― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business, 1985 !BackTo1985@lemm.ee
Most headlines I see are going with 10%, which is a big understatement.
It’s because they’re run by billionaires. Even liberal, big outlets harp on cultural issues to redirect focus.
In case anyones looking at this and asking question like “Why has Cambodia been dunked with 49% when they’re clearly not a competitor to the US” or “Why is Trump claiming that the European Union has a 40% tariff on the US when the actual mean tariff on US goods into the EU is less than 5%”, here’s your answer to how these figures have been calculated.
- Take the US trade deficit with a given country (eg. China is $292bn)
- Take the total good imported by US (for China that’s $439bn)
- Divide the first figure by the second! Why? Who knows! It’s a number! Less talk more first grade arithmetic (if you’re still following that gives us 67%)
- That gives us a random number which we’ll pretend is that country’s tariff of US goods even though it’s completely unrelated in every way. We’ll divide it by two to get the new tariff rate for imports from that country. Why? Honestly if you’re still expecting there to be an answer to that question I’m wondering if you’ve been following. (that gives us 34%, well actually it gives us 33.5% but I’m not sure the Trump administration understands the idea of fractions so we’ll just round it up from there)
The “reason” behind this is that Trump seems to think trade deficits are really bad, which is bad news for the US because it’s had a trade deficit for the last 50 years. We’ll ignore the fact that based on GDP it’s been the wealthiest country in the world for that time though.
Anyway, just to give everyone an idea of how completely, utterly unrelated to anything meaningful that figure is, let’s take Cambodia. The country is very poor compared to the US so can’t afford to buy anything that the US manufacters (Cambodians aren’t driving round in Teslas or IMessaging each other). Some US companies use it for clothing manufacture because labour is cheap in Cambodia (see the previous bit about Cambodia being much poorer than the US). This means that Cambodia imports close to nothing from the US compared to what it exports, giving it a close to 100% trade deficit, so we wind up with a 49% tariff on Cambodia.
I genuinely don’t understand the mindset that looks at the US’s explotation of cheap labour in Cambodia and interprets the US as the victim in that relationship, but hey-ho maybe I’m just not biggly-smart enough to understand the 4d chess moves at play here. . .
Reference (because unfortunately none of what I said was made up and that geniunely is the calculation): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/03/trumps-idiotic-and-flawed-tariff-calculations-stun-economists
Edit: After making fun of Trump for not understanding the enconomy, I went and conflated per capita GDP with GDP. Doh! Now corrected.
Putting on my best swiss cheese brain, maybe they are treating it ‘like a business’ and trying to do debt to income ratio? So our deficit is the debt then they look at tariffs on the imported goods as the income.
Do you know if this holds for other countries too?
I honestly have no idea, maybe? Deficit isn’t really debt though, it just means you bought more than you sold. The US isn’t in debt to Cambodia any more than you’re in debt with McDonald’s. They just have a one way buy/sell relationship.
That’s a really good explanation, there’s no realistic way to make your money back from McDonald’s
Absolutely, but if one has no idea what they are talking about, they might massive brain worms about the US debt and it being caused by our budget deficit. Then they look at all these other countries and learn about the ‘deficit’ we have with them and that’s the same word, same thing, ezpz. Now you simple get a solid 50% debt to income ratio by dividing the two and cutting it in half, check mate economists.
Why does he think tariffs are equal to trade deficits?
Run headfirst into a brick wall a dozen times and then maybe you will start to understand
Thanks for the explanation! It is unbelievable that these are the folks with nuclear codes.
Uh, we have absolutely not been the wealthiest country by per capita GDP that whole time. We have been the wealthiest country by GDP
Yeah, you’re right. Sorry! Although US have definitely been one of the highest GDP per capita for that time (but like you pointed out, not the top which is what I original said)
So is the plan to drive the cost of everyday essentials so high that virtually everyone bankrupts and the billionaires buy all of our assets for pennies on the thousand dollars? That is all I can come up with trying to make a scenario where this has some coherent objective.
He wants to use tariffs (which act like a flat-tax) to lower income tax on the rich. There’s speculation he’s also doing something like the “Mar-a-Lago Accord,” which involves devaluing the dollar (causing inflation). If wages don’t rise with the inflation (which they don’t want), US labor will be more competitive, so people can work in factory jobs with pay analogous to current Chinese factory workers.
Project 2025 says he wants to have tariffs removed against the US. Assuming he’s really following it.
They probably want him to do it, but he’s too stupid to follow a script.
A poor America, with no friends in the world suits Vlad Pootang very well. It will be like the world has 2 Russia’s…
Yup.
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
Thanks for typing out the percentages, so far I’ve only seen emotional news reports about it without any detailed info.
Are these tariffs on ALL goods from a certain country? Eg, does 34% on China mean 34% on ALL Chinese goods or just certain ones like cars?
Well, one of two things will happen now.
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The US economy will recede by roughly 30% over the coming years (classified by economists as “catastrophic collapse”)
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It will turn out that trade was “fake and gay” all along and autarky is the way to go, despite centuries of historic lessons to the contrary.
Take your pick.
It’s all goods from those countries.
30% seems pretty generous. Nevermind the complete collapse of trade and alliances we built over the past century, won’t countries stop using the us dollar as the backing reserve? Which will likely set america on an even further downward trend, especially since the dollar isn’t on the gold standard anymore?
won’t countries stop using the us dollar as the backing reserve
Yeah. Putin’s gonna be so pleased.
I hope Euro takes over
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I’d love to open the news one evening and not feel like we’re another step closer to the apocalypse.
Honestly, fuck Trump. Where my Luigis at?
He missed.
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
I’m all for “it’s benefitting the billionaires,” and that’s what tariffs do, but most of the ultra-wealthy’s money is tied up in the market, too. It’s more that this is a regressive tax to fund cuts to progressive taxes, fucking shit up is not the intent.
Some of the administration’s actions really are them drinking their own Kool-aid. Like, what they’ve done to the HHS is objectively detrimental to the ultra-wealthy old guys too. There’s some arguments to be had around tariffs, but implementing them Iike this is more on the kool-aid side.
but most of the ultra-wealthy’s money is tied up in the market, too.
The ultra-wealthy have enough of a buffer to buy out all the middling-wealthy when they go bankrupt. They can buy the dip without themselves going bankrupt.
wealthy people are not a monolith. some, those with advance warning (insider advantage) will benefit while others lose out. this is not just about rich vs poor, it’s also ultra rich vs ultra rich, cabals of powerful elites vying for control of global markets in the chaotic aftermath of global financial restructuring.
in addition to buy low, sell high… perhaps even more lucrative, the crash will be used as an excuse for another massive corporate bailout benefiting the wealthiest business owners and will accelerate the transfer of wealth from govt (taxpayers/poors) to private interests (oligarchs and bankers). this happened in 2008, during Covid PPP, and it will happen again.
If it crashes badly enough their money will be worthless.
I think it’s important to note that this will kill a great many small businesses.
Larger companies have a larger supply in giant warehouses. Small businesses order smaller quantities more often. They get fucked sooner with the costs going up. If a customer wants to support that small business they sometimes would have to pay twice what they could get it for from a larger company. This is a deep consolidation of wealth.
The trump regime was designed to TANK the US economy so that stocks, businesses, and industries can be bought by billionaires at rock bottom prices.
All is going according to plan.
When it’s not working, it’s working.
Large companies can also bully suppliers to force them to lower prices at their end
