- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
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When lemmy.ml answer detected:
relatable
:(
:(
):
:(
:3
>:3
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It’s UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let’s hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
When choosing an instance, it is not necessarily overtly advertised as such. It’s just one of the largest instances, so many “regular” people are obviously going to pick it. New users are not going to be intimately familiar with the elaborate politics of federated Lemmy servers upon first arrival. It would be a bit bizarre to expect them to be.
Sure, and anyone can walk into a nazi bar. But with threads like this being fairly common, and ML people behaving as they do, you have every chance to realise pretty quickly and leave
Hell, ML people are bad enough that I imagine a lot of sane people leave lemmy entirely, if they pick an instance that hasn’t defederated ML yet. I’m looking at alternatives myself as getting associated with these types of people isn’t a great idea, and the lemmy developers are part of the problem
No doubt many have tried the fediverse and walked away because of Lemmy.ml/hexbear.
I don’t even admit that I use it as is because of the propaganda. I’m still hopeful for the future but my enthusiasm is dying.
Same, I can’t recommend lemmy to friends or coworkers because of this. Mastodon is much better at this
Maybe I’ll switch to Mastadon. I find myself going back to Reddit as often as using Lemmy these days, so maybe it’s time.
I suspect everyone switching won’t solve the problem. Seems unavoidable that open-access, anonymous social media will be a target for propaganda any time it becomes popular. If everyone leaves for Mastadon, the shills and their LLMs will move over there.
I mean I just never ended up subscribing to political communities, so I never see any political related things anyway. If you only subscribe to meme and lighthearted communities, you’re not likely to run into that stuff. Your comparison of it being a “Nazi bar” doesn’t work. I’ve never been someone who browsed the “all” category of Reddit, and I’ve not been inclined to do that here on Lemmy, either. So no, you often won’t see that sort of thing unless you’re browsing by all communities.
Well, you’d need to pay a very specific amount of attention to not notice the tankies from ML, but really notice and be bothered but people shunning ML because of the tankies. I guess it’s possible, but it seems unlikely to be common
Well now you’re not making any sense. I don’t see “tankie” comments because I don’t subscribe to or browse political communities. Yet I see plenty of posts and complaints about said users in non-political communities. Check where we are right now. We’re in a meme community. Of course if I subscribe to meme communities, I’ll see posts and comments like this. It’s not that complicated to understand.
I see plenty of ML people being awful in meme communities. I’m amazed you don’t. Any even remotely political meme will attract them, or at least would back when they were out in force supporting Trump leading up to the election.
And that is even though I’ve blocked ML and have a hair trigger for blocking .ml accounts
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check Davel@lemmy.ml if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
Yes, of course you are right. But for those less experienced on discourse, there is the principle of charity. It is important to give the benefit of the doubt that the interlocutor is acting in good faith. But when you exhaust all the good-faith and sensible arguments, and that person resorts to either providing irrational points or acting unreasonably and/or disingenuously, then it is completely safe to assume that the person is actually a bad-faith actor. It’s on that person, not on you.
But you should not readily accuse someone a troll unless you could calmly point out why the person is such and such. Trolls exactly want you to do that.
Haven’t i seen you cast these types of accusations before…?
Pure AD HOM. Instead of addressing a single part of my argument, you’re instantly pointing a finger at my person, but you’re so easy that I don’t mind engaging.
“Accusations” like quoting his own comments?
He claims to be American. He says “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias.” He won’t answer the question “are you pro-Russian”.
Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts you can verify yourself.
Fervently and actively trying to say Russian propaganda doesn’t exist, definitely not on Lemmy, while refusing to answer whether he’s pro-Russian or not. Just what kind of American would you have to be to support Russia and be against Ukraine while actively promoting Russian propaganda? Please, do reason that out for me. Thanks.
I’m not debating you bud, relax.
Pretty much my entire experience with your account is dealing with you accusing me of being a russian operative, even linking me into threads across instances in threads I had no involvement in.
I’m just pointing out the pattern here, though I’m grateful you’ve moved on to another target now.
edit because @Desus@lemmy.world got himself banned on my instance:
I’ve repeatedly stated that I’m not russian nor pro-russian - but that’s the point. There is no way of addressing this accusation thoroughly enough to satisfy the accuser, which is why nearly every community/instance has a rule against it. Nevermind the hopelessness of trying to categorize/typify every anonymous user along some nationalist line of personal significance.
Confusing analysis for justification is a common enough mistake, but it’s an even more common bad-faith way of dismissing materialist analysis entirely. Following various users around to make those accusations is simply a way to force disengagement onto others and potentially solidify reactionary impulses against communism/socialism more broadly.
Oh yes, “another target”.
You felt threatened, because I asked you if you were pro-Russian. Took you a while to respond, btw. And did you even give a yes or no answer? I fail to recall you saying you’re not pro-Russian. And I’ve never accused you of being a “Russian operative”, lol. Spreading Russian propaganda doesn’t even require that you are a Russian. But Davel is claiming to be American, while being intensely pro-Russian and due to the interactions someone dug in the modlog last time, we also know there’s an actual organised effort with them. I still haven’t said that organised effort is actually some paid “operatives”.
You read too much into things. Improve your reading comprehension and maybe you won’t feel so easily threatened by simple questions like “are you pro-Russian” when you use a username like “archomrade” and constantly post things consistent with Russian propaganda. Perhaps you just don’t realise it?
Thanks for your efforts fighting disinformation. Seriously.
Why thank you. I appreciate that. Honestly, more than you’d guess.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia, but my skeptical antennae are twitching.
Also, their justification for editing their post is that you’re banned on their instance, which I don’t buy as a reason to edit rather than reply. You’re not banned on world and neither are they.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia
Oh yeah I remember that guy. He says he answered the question, but he never did. I thought there was something I wasn’t really recalling. But yeah. Then I kept asking “if you already answered it, why can’t you answer again, it’s a simple yes or no question”, but he just refuses to answer.
Now this might be me imagining things, but these accounts lie about literally anything, but they can’t say “no, I’m not pro-Russian”, because they know how insane Russia is and no matter how unimportant you are, if you actually say you are against the government, even as a clear joke, you might be in danger of falling out of a window.
No yeah they just quit replying once they realise they’re going on a bit too long while absolutely refusing to answer such a simple question. It’s not even “are you Russian”. It’s whether they support the current Russian policies. Anyone who can’t say they’re against Russia literally breaking international law can go fuck themselves. Hear that, @archomrade@midwest.social ?
@Dasus@lemmy.world
I literally cannot see anything you’ve posted after you were banned - an instance ban prevents any of your activity from federating. It isn’t that I ‘stop responding’, that possibility has simply been taken away from me because Dasus can’t resist russia-jacketing anyone who disagrees with them. I can only see your comments if I visit the post from any other instance url. Call it unhealthy curiosity, I figured you’d be shadowboxing in my absence.
I do not support Russia and Putin is a piece of shit - feel free to send a screenshot to the kremlin if it makes you feel better. The US isn’t getting involved out of benevolence, though, and Ukraine would be fucked by IMF and US aid conditions for the next century even if they were successful in repelling the russian invasion. But my material analysis about that conflict isn’t even at issue here, instead it’s your insistence that any analysis that involves Russia at all be sufficiently critical, else the speaker be condemned as a pro-russian stooge. It doesn’t mean I think that russian capitalism is preferable, it’s just an acknowledgement that it’s western capitalism that has historically -and is currently- obstructing the development of working-class solidarity across the globe, and exchanging Ukrainian (and russian) lives for its expansion is a shit deal to put it mildly.
No war but class war.
Well I’m sorry I made you write all that, but I do really appreciate you writing “Putin is a piece of shit”, no matter how childish or crazy I may seem to you.
Also, I don’t remember whether in the earlier chat we had some day you actually said that as well. You very well may have, I remember someone saying that at some point, but my short term memory fucking sucks nowadays. But Davel definitely has never answered me.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets. Watch the video, Slavoj Zizek really has a bette handle on economical philosophy than I do.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine. Now you could never imagine that a European country (yes Russia is technically one too but let’s ignore that for a while) would actually manage to organise an invasion of another European country with soldiers who don’t even know they’re going to invade another country. “Special Military Operation”. Imagine, idk, Germany pulling that on France? Sure, 100 years ago. But today? You just wouldn’t be able to do that. 100 years ago the populace was still less educated and easier to manipulate. Much like much of Russia’s population and pretty much all of North Korea’s. If those were educated westerners, they’d have never bought into the propaganda of their respective nations and they couldn’t have organised such military efforts.
Is there shitty western propaganda? Yes. Do western countries have a lot of fault and some even actively warmonger? Yes. But is our active worry Western countries? No. (Well, aside from the US because of Trump.) Is our main worry really Russia at the moment? I think so, yeah.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets
I don’t view one type of capitalism as more favorable than another, but I do recognize the particular dominance and imperialistic qualities of western capitalism. In fact, I see the the current global conflicts in a similar lens to Zizek when he says:
[the existing western democratic capitalist] “system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility, and I even think it’s currently collapsing. I don’t share Zizek’s skepticism of… “Chinese-Singaporean capitalism with Asian values”. He has had some questionable takes on racial/national identities in the past - it’s been a while since I trusted his geopolitical cultural analysis. At the very least I think the ‘Socialism/Capitalism with Chinese characteristics’ has yet to play itself out, whereas there’s about a dozen examples of western imperialist intervention ending in absolute squalor for the working class wherever they’ve been active.
The point is that from a purely ML perspective, there’s nothing to be gained by dragging that conflict out. The working class will be in no better material conditions under either outcome, even if we freely acknowledge their occupation and annexation is both immoral and illegal. So long as western democratic capitalism retains its global significance, there can’t be socialism without a vanguard party to defend against western capitalistic subversion, at least not one that lasts.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine.
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
“system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
I don’t disagree with this. And it’s actually nice to get into nuance with someone. The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing, which is not something I’m gonna reveal here just in case there actually is a war. (My war time posting, that is.)
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
For one, I’ve already explained how I will defend Finland and Europe if it comes down to it, but how people just overhype Finland. “Happiest country in the world”? What fucking garbage. One of the most miserable countries in the world, when it comes to general enjoyment of life. Perhaps one of the safest countries in the world, sure, where you’ll usually have your basic needs met and won’t have to resort to violence or crime, but… “happiest”? Not even fucking close.
It’s not about racial or etchnic takes when Zizek talks about ‘capitalism with Asian values’. Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
Yes but you can also see how quotes can be interpreted in several ways, yes? And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
It’s hectic. We can’t use hectic. I want to rage and break things and yell at morons. But unfortunately that’s just never worked and annoying as it is, we have to compromise with morons.
The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing
I’m sorry you’re in that situation, genuinely. I don’t want to be one of those guys that confidently speculates about the future of geopolitical conflict, but Russia benefits a lot more from reactionary isolationists getting voted in throughout the western world and weakening resolve for joint sanction than they do with open conflict with Europe. They wouldn’t be able to march into Finland or Poland without NATO taking action, and they certainly do not want to get into open conflict with NATO - that’s half the reason they’re in Ukraine to begin with.
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
And i’d gladly discuss it when I know i’m talking to someone who understands that it isn’t just western ‘politics’, it is a matter of the internal contradictions within democratic capitalism itself. It’s not a matter of western nations ‘deciding’ not to be jackasses, they need to materially separate themselves from the needs of capital itself, and we’ll sooner sink to fascism than achieve that spontaneously.
Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
Err, yea… That is basically the only reason they’ve been as successful as a communist nation to begin with. I understand people’s apprehension to include China as a communist or socialist nation state given the idealistic non-violent vision that’s romanticized in the west, but the way in which they’ve enacted their “socialism with Chinese characteristics” is still consistent with a marxist vision of a ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’. I guess we’ll see if/how that system would be implemented in a hypothetical communist/socialist western world, but so far their system has been significantly less violent than even the most charitable characterizations of western democratic capitalism. That’s why I don’t share Zizek’s fear of Chinese authoritarianism taking over in the west - not just because I think the west has greatly exaggerated it to great effect, but also they’ve been downright benevolent with their partner states in comparison to western democratic capitalist states. I think it’s naive to think a western implementation would be the same (but holy shit is that an insane hypothetical given where we currently are)
And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
Funnily enough, that is the opposite of what that phrase means - but I can see we’re about to reach the limit on what we agree on so I’ll leave it at that.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Do you really love or have any feeling towards your instance? I think of it more like an e-mail address than a “name” for like an apartment building or mascots/team name (probably why these posts confuse the shit out of me). My first instance had connection issues/downtime so I switched to .ml. Almost switched from them like a month ago because of slow loading times but seems to be better the past couple of weeks (this is the basics of html, I shouldn’t have to “watch” it load).
I just always scroll on All (active), and sometimes subscribed if I’m feeling in the mood so I never even consider my instance unless something technical or posts like this come up. I have a couple of mobile devices that I’m never logged into that I’ll pop up lemmy on from different instances (.world, .ee, etc), I actually am less likely to use an instance that advocates heavy defederation.
I don’t mean it in a parasocial relationship way or anything. I just like the vibe here and think the admin is cool.
Also, the more decentralised the network is the better for everyone involved.
Based 👌❤️
Does “be civil” include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There’s a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it’s called the blocking function, but I suppose that’d stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
.world consistently removes memes calling out their own communities. But they leave up any “meme” bashing .ml
As does ml. Worse even. But the fact that both do is a defense of neither. So I’m not sure why you even bring it up. Be better. World isn’t tied to any particular political ideology. Ml 100% is. And if you mention absolute documented facts. You can and will be banned from there. Because the facts go against the narratives. World has its problems. But I haven’t seen anything approaching that yet.
i assume “be civil” just means that you can’t call people “dipshit asshole dumbass idiot” and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that’s generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn’t just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that’s not civil.
It’s a meme sub, chill out.
Pretty based take… coming from a lemmy.world user. /$
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn’t anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
Can you point me to any member of these “huge groups of well known users” spreading bigotry, racism, and transphobia?
First rule of using Lemmy: If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
“Well known” is so patronizing. It’s like OP is saying “yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?”. Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
worth .003$ vs a hexbear user
Like comparing the Ruble to the North Korean Won LMAO
Pffft North Korea ain’t Won shit! (Sorry I see a pun I make a pun.)
This is even less than a Schrutebuck.
oh I’d rather have a schrutebuck 100%
Even though I came from reddit, I approach comments on their own merits and I don’t downvote just for disagreeing with someone.
We are not the same.
Nah, my comments are all pretty dumb. OP’s logic checks out.
Great! Now, instead of downvoting state your disagreement and don’t downvote. Maybe you’ll learn something, maybe someone else will.
EDIT: haha good one
i joined .ml as it was the first instance i come across when trying lemmy out. Iv heard the admins are tankies but to be honest i dont actually know what a tankie is. i just use lemmy to look at memes and follow foss communities. i try to block all political stuff as i want to enjoy my exprience and stay ignorant to the politics here.
If you’re capable of identifying a bad take on the internet, I wouldn’t worry about it.
This is the way. The constant bickering over the concept of “liberal” vs “actual left” is as exhausting as it is mostly futile.
- Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
- Why don’t you just block the instance
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Why don’t you just block the instance
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there’s a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to “WHATABOUT”, or a non-Western aligned dictator to “BOTHSIDES”.
My current favorite is Taliban-simping.
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like “you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment.” I don’t know if that’s a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
Damn I’m jealous of your client! That’s a new feature to me!
Enjoy! At least if you’re on Android. I don’t know if an iOS version exists.
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
The ml stands for Mali, which is the country the instance domain is registered to. The Marxist-Leninist connection is a happy coincidence for them.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
chosen because it was cheap
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they’ve ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity’s sake.
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don’t like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let’s me know how they think.
I like this view, because I have zero idea what I just walked in on. This account is just 16 days old and I’m just here to chat non-politics and doomscroll. And by 16 days old I mean like 4 because their acceptance email got sent to spam and I didn’t notice it until then.
Tbh, I had no idea there were even factions or drama among the instances.
You should make an account on another instance, if you don’t like the heavy hand of defederation of .world, lemmy.sdf.org is a good one and sh.itjust.works is another
There’s also this community if you want to see for yourself the kind of behavior the admins and mods of .ml support, encourage and even participate in !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
Honestly, that’s what I’m currently doing. I’ve always chuckled at the cleverness of the name sh.itjust.works. I started on .world, but I forgot to migrate my 2fa because I switched from Google Authenticator to an open source one on a new phone and didn’t take my lemmy token for some damn reason.
I’m only switching because I’m a neutral entity online when it comes to politics and identity. I use the internet to escape that, not dive into it. I don’t mind seeing it, I just move along and let people be people. I’d rather not be potentially tied to an image or faction by association; its nothing against .ml or anything.
Lemmy.ml admins will delete anything that doesn’t support China or Russia, and they’ll also delete anything that speaks positively of Western countries or concepts. Then they’ll purge the logs so that there’s no evidence that they’re censoring basically everything.
I started on .ml, and left after a couple months when I realized I was the only person on the instance who wasn’t a tanky fully committed to arguing with every post I see. They seem to have toned down a bit after getting defederated a couple times, but there are a lot of extremists on that instance, and they’re very loud. I felt like I was in a Chinese political re-education camp half the time.
the other side
Kremlin propaganda isn’t the other side
Yet propaganda is what has the US where we are today. If you understand the propaganda, you can help push back.
Yes, like pushing back against lemmy.ml
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
Extending an invitation to peruse !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for some context of mod behavior
- Lots of toxicity and bad takes.
- It isn’t literally the entire instance.
It isn’t literally the entire instance.
Maybe not, but when the admins and mods are part of the problem, it becomes pervasive.
Their mods behave like Russian commissars. Their users go along with it.
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That’s the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
I don’t care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
woah.
woah?
yeah I was echoing the meme. silly joke
woah
Why tho? I’m having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
When I first got lemmy, I think I signed up to .ml but after a while I couldn’t log in so I made a .world acc
Ooh hard facts? I love hard facts! Which hard facts are you talking about?
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters. The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
China is a capitalistic country with a state guidance in their industrial policy and a dictator in the helm.
They don’t really even have anything in regards to a national health care.
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we’re talking “hard facts” I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
Isn’t the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn’t that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn’t it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between “real” communism and “fake” communism?
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated by mostly Marxists. That’s the principle reason, everything else stems from hostility towards Marxism and Marxists.
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You are so radical in your views.”
You’re literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You’re spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It’s not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn’t even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn’t read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the “ability to think”?
“Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they’d like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin.”
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
“Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don’t break into houses, but they do visit,” the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn’t democracy. It’s a comedy show."
Here’s more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine ‘sham’ referendums
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can’t… or won’t call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being “for Ukraine” doesn’t really matter when you’re touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
