As someone who grew up in a conservative household in a deep red state, I think that part of it is that a lot of people are letting Lizard Brain dictate their response to transgender people.
Let me give you a personal example. A while back, I went to a social dance, and there was a trans woman there. Before the dance starts proper, the couple that runs it will teach a dance lesson, and we rotate partners while that’s going on. Eventually, I was rotated into being her partner. For some background, she was obviously early on in her transition; she still looked like a dude in a dress, she didn’t quite have the appearance down yet. But she gets huge props for not only having the bravery to go out as herself, but doing it in fucking Arkansas.
So I rotate over to her, and it dawns on me that she’s trans. In my head, Lizard Brain immediately starts screaming. “WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?! THIS PERSON IS OBVIOUSLY A DUDE IN A DRESS, HE MUST BE UP TO SOMETHING IF HE’S DRESSING AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE IS! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE”
Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn’t see trans people, and even now, it still tickles that primal part of my brain that was trained to be uncomfortable around people who aren’t white and straight.
The difference between me and many of the people I grew up around is that I recognize that it’s happening and try to tone Lizard Brain out when it starts screaming. A lot of other people listen to it and don’t care that the person that it’s screaming about is exactly that: a person.
This is so real. It takes a LOT of effort and time to train this out. If someone isn’t willing to go through that then it makes sense that it would fester.
I had lots of times when i was younger learning about queer culture when i got mad at things. Especially after an overly polite and patient person took the time and effort to explain something to me. Unlearning hate is painful. Learning to liberate yourself is painful.
I think a lot of people feel that pain and decide to run from it and double down on the hate because that way they don’t need to learn and change or pry open their mind to an alternative.
Then there’s the whole fear of conflicting with your own community as a factor.
Would you mind sharing what that person explained to you?
Many conversations with many different people. I can’t recall as this was mostly a decade ago, before it all clicked for me that humans are diverse and nuanced and it’s fine. My guess would be pronouns and wide net incel stuff. Not that i was particularly bad but deprogramming a Catholic suburban upbringing in american masculinity culture and propaganda is a monumental feat.
I think the fact that i was willing to listen, think critically, and engage in self doubt is what invited the conversations. Still, they were being very charitable with their energy and time.
I’m really grateful for that, especially after recognizing in not as cishet as i thought i was.
Excellently said!
The only thing I have an issue with, and it’s a small issue at that, is:
Keep in mind, where I grew up, you just didn’t see trans people,
You most assuredly did see them. You just didn’t realize it because they were forced to hide who they really were.
It’s strange to them.
When people encounter something that’s different from what they are used to, they don’t know how to process it. It makes them uncomfortable. Some people, instead of learning how to deal with that feeling like a mature adult, blame the individual for making them feel uncomfortable and resent them for “making them feel that way”. Just staying away is not enough, they must be punished for existing.
All because someone felt a little icky when they thought about a girl with a weiner.
Even as someone who fully accepts trans people and has trans friends and family, it’s still an adjustment to some really old, deeply-seated habits and mental structures. I’m over 50 so I was set in my ways when I learned about “they” pronouns and it still takes work for me to get it right. If I didn’t care about the people involved, it would be very easy to see it as a burden or annoyance.
I’m a southerner. Take what I’m about to tell you as close to the grain of the problem as possible, because it is.
Here’s the thing. 9 times out of 10, a Southern man is going to meet a lone trans or gay person, have a pleasant experience talking to them and go about their day, they even make friends with the person, spend years talking to them, send gifts, become family members, etc.
But you know what?
Behind closed doors, it’s “fuck those trannies”, “not in my schools”, etc. My mom does it, her sister does it, my dad did it. It’s hypocrisy at an extreme level while also ignoring it at an extreme level.
“Well I have gay friends… I’m not homowhatzit”
THEY’RE TEACHING WHAT!?
“Double Standard” might as well be the tagline for the entire South. They’ll protect their religion and the expectations put on them by their parents and social norms on a general level across the board, while still shaking hands and eating cake with their lgbtq+ buddies.
Just remember any southerner is one thought from God away from stabbing you in the back at all times, because no matter how close you get to them, even as a family member, that book and the expectations behind it means more, was beat into them more, every day since they were born until you met them.
Southerner here and I’ll say you were right, up until your last paragraph.
Just remember any southerner is one thought from God away from stabbing you in the back at all times
This part however, is bullshit.
We’re not all the same and that you would suggest so actually pisses me off. Replace the word “southerner” in that sentence with any other group of people and see if you still find it acceptable.
Fucking lol at hateful idiots stereotyping an entire geographic area. I’m sure in their minds it’s completely different than stereotyping people because of their race/creed/gender/whatever.
I lived with them long enough that the shadow of a doubt has its own lamp. I’ve heard racist and misogynist shit from people I’ve known for a decade or more who never had a sign of it before.
Yep, I’m set with it. Fuck em. Worth it.
Yeah that’s called “prejudice” and isnt a good quality.
Swap “southern” for “black” or “gay” and see if you’d be proud to make that same claim.
I’ll be goddamn. I’ve seen family members ousted from a dinner table, in my own fucking family.
Maybe in your pampered version of the South.
In mine, they leave and never come back or speak to you again and all the old folks wonder why, while forgetting the last 60 family get togethers’ arguments.
“Pampered version of the South” lol I grew up in Bum-Fuck, Florida and have lived in various southern cities as well as spending much of my youth in random rural areas.
Racists and pieces of shit exist everywhere and I’m not denying that. Your blanket statement regarding all southerners is where I take issue.
Don’t forget you said you were a southerner yourself, so am I to expect God will speak to you at any moment and turn you into an even more prejudiced person or…? Because if that’s a true statement, which it isn’t, you’re saying you yourself should never be trusted. And if that’s the case, why should we listen to what you, who is just another Southern, backstabbing, secret Bible thumping, homophobic, racist (accordng to your own flawed statement) have to say anyway?
Incorrect. The book itself means very little, just their interpretation.
100%
My mom went to an integrated school in the South, made friends… but sometimes overheard racist slurs and threats behind closed doors. Same story with family I have now, all pleasent in public, friends with some gay family members. But vehemently anti-vaccine and such behind closed doors… I have horrible stories I can’t even repeat.
The duality is unreal.
A question is where that behind-doors comes from… a lot is from church. Church like you’ve never seen if you haven’t been to the South.
Because fascists need a ~scary other~ to scapegoat to erode everyone’s rights.
You all are overthinking it way too much.
Most people hate anything that’s different or uncommon to themselves and their “world”.
Simple as that.
It’s heterophobia in the semantic sense of the word “fear of anything that’s different”.
Xenophobia
I always thought that xenos was more refering to people from outside, like physically from a different place.
But I really know nothing about words, greek, latin or whatever. So it will probably be a better choice of words.
That’s heresy.
Sigh, I’ll get the holy promethium…
“other; different in origin.” is the meaning of xeno.
So… it kinda fits, it kinda doesn’t.
Far simpler than whateveryone else is saying. The best way to rally humans to your side is to give them a common enemy. So conservative politicians picked enemies that are small in number and told everyone how they are to blame for all that is wrong in the world.
Fascists are cowards who attack the most vulnerable people as a standard tactic.
They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.
A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).
I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that’s what they thought and that’s where they stopped.
But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.
The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can’t they just fuck off and let people be how they want?
It’s extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they’re not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.
They got like 1–2% more votes than Harris got and only got ~1 million votes over 2020. Had Harris gotten the same number of votes as Biden she would’ve won. It’s not that the country went more Conservative, it’s that Democrat voters are unreliable and failed to come out. There’s hardly a “mandate” to speak of, these people are still weird as shit, nothing changed.
It’s artificial boosting of the same bigotry that’s been ongoing for generations. The new part switching the target.
See, there’s been a very concerted effort to radicalize the right wing of the American populace by media oligarchs. It’s part of an overall strategy going back to at least the post-nixon era.
Want to crush black people? Find a way to villainize them indirectly. “Inner city” crime. Step up arrests for things that are disproportionately a part of black people’s lives. Spread drugs into the chaos brought about by destabilizing black communities to engender greater violence between gangs. And it worked. Look at how many black people are in jail compared to pretty much any other group.
Go back to Stonewall, when the biggest movements for gay rights got going hard, and remember that trans people were involved from the beginning, but didn’t have a convenient label, they didn’t have a way to be a distinct group. Gay rights efforts worked to some degree. Enough that the far right plans to use gay people as the enemy had to find another target the same way that they had to change targets from black people to Hispanic people in the form of “illegal aliens”.
When your plan rests on fomenting anger, hate, and fear to stir up the lowest common denominator of a populace you have to have a target, ideally more than one since there’s always going to be gaps where your desired audience will fall prey to the manipulation for one hate focus, but not another, like when you run into conservatives that aren’t actually racist, but hate anyone in the LGBTQ+ umbrella because of religion, or sheer stupidity.
So, when gays weren’t a useful target for hate any more because enough people knew gay people, and there were enough gay people of prominence to make it harder, why not switch to the next best thing? Trans people!
See, we had a major shift in awareness of trans issues back in the late nineties and early naughties. That’s was followed by a large shift in trans people now having a serious chance at transitioning as medicine advanced, funding shifted, and there was just enough support that more people could transition and not be alone.
This meant that the assholes pushing their agenda to gain and maintain both wealth and power had a gift given to them. A new label to attack, using the exact same rhetoric they’d been using against gay people. “It’s unnatural”, “but what about the children?”, along with the ability to use lingering misogyny via to attack trans women in specific since they are now women, but used to be men (in the rhetoric), so they must be groomers sneaking into bathrooms.
It’s the exact same bullshit over again.
People have forgotten that the same methodology has been in place every time people in power needed to scare the populace enough to achieve a goal. Remember reefer madness? Before my time, but the entire thing was built in order to continue the oppression of black people, to keep them firmly under the boot.
Go back further, and it was the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, whatever group was “other” at the time.
But the modern version is so directly a rehash of the anti gay rhetoric that’s not even fifty years in the past that I’m amazed it isn’t glaringly obvious even to the people that have jumped on the bandwagon of both.
I’ve said it before, but people are stupid. They’re easy to manipulate, easy to fool, and that’s the majority. Even the ones that aren’t easy to manipulate can still fall prey to it if they aren’t paying attention. People are also lazy, and have little long term thinking ability, or attention spans. That’s why we got zero lasting changes after George Floyd was murdered. Anyone that’s made it this far, think for a second. How long did it take you to remember that name and what it means? Now, ask yourself how many people didn’t remember at all.
That’s why trans hate is working. People suck. The vast majority are easy to control, and will believe anything fed to them with the right language behind it. It just so happens that while all of the distractions being used to build up the hate also created a smoke screen to hide gerrymandering, which ends up with more and more control over what language is being used everywhere.
So, here we are with a manufactured, strawman enemy being propped up as the target and then painted with the word “trans”. None of the bullshit used to build up the hate is true, it isn’t accurate, and most of the people behind the hate actually know it’s bullshit, but they aren’t allowed to hate the blacks and the gays out loud any more. They can’t just scream the n word or call people faggots at whim the way they used to.
So, now they’ve got trans people to hate. And they want that hate because it means they don’t have to look at themselves, their own lives and choices. They don’t have to stop and think that maybe everything they’ve built their identity around is empty, so they scream about “wokeness” and “transgenderism” as code words.
There’s no serious, legitimate arguments against trans people being allowed to have the full protection of the law, to have full medical access, to have whatever gender they want on their driver’s license. There’s just the bullshit excuses to have someone to hate. There’s not even a good argument about bathrooms, they’re all built on bullshit too, and that’s the one that’s the low hanging fruit because it seems reasonable to people that aren’t buying all the bullshit immediately, but aren’t quite bright enough to think it through all the way on their own. Which, again, that’s the majority, stupid people too drowned in lies and manipulation to bother thinking.
So, Don, if you’ve gotten this far, I know I went wide of what you asked, but it really is all related. It all comes down to the same thing in different faces over time.
For anyone else, I know this got a little ranty in parts. I know it is long enough to look a little crazed. IDGAF. This shit is patently obvious, it’s not even a secret. The people that have been running the right wing of things for my entire lifetime and before have outright and publicly talked about it. One part of it, the “southern strategy” they brag about. It’s infuriating, so I get ranty.
Please continue with your rants then, that was the most clear and concise breakdown of events I’ve ever seen. Thank you for writing it up
things that are a part of a black person’s life
Crime is just a part of a black person’s life? That’s a highly racist thing to say. Black people aren’t inherently criminals.
Are you fucking joking?
If that’s really where you thought I was going with that, you’re the racist.
If you’re trying to troll, good job because now I think you’re either a troll, a racist, or an idiot. I prefer to think you’re a troll.
No, I believe it’s wrong to automatically classify black people or poor people as criminals. Yet so many people do it.
Since that was what I said, just phrased differently, maybe you can see how it looks like you’re trolling.
Maybe also notice that you’re the only one that took it that way.
I’m not trolling. I don’t believe that anyone who is poor or a minority is automatically a criminal.
Dude, bugger off with this shit
I never said that, and you know I never said it
You literally said that black people get arrested for things that are a part of a black person’s life.
Committing crimes is NOT automatically part of a black person’s life. People CHOOSE to commit crime.
Conservatives come in two types. The rich ones who want more and more money. And the poor ones who also want more money but are unable to obtain it because the rich hoard money.
The rich conservatives need to stop the poor conservatives from realizing the rich are why the poor can’t get money. So they make up vulnerable groups to blame for the poor’s problem, and the poor are generally too poorly educated to catch on to this game.
Different groups have been the scapegoat. Women, blacks, the italians, the irish, asians, gays, and now it’s transgender people.
The good news is transgender people WILL get full rights in about 20-30 years if you look at historical cycles. The bad news is it will be a fight and many will die before they get treated as human beings by these asshole conservatives.
I think earth’s current environment is going to collapse in 20-30 years.
True egalitarianism
Religious people control their kids through the village support system of their church. Some kids are learning things at public school which are not in line with those beliefs. This is scary for parents. Parents don’t want to lose their children, and can’t imagine loving them as somebody else. Case in point Elon And his trans daughter Vivian.
I’m quite liberal and atheist, but the prospect of a transitioning child is troubling to me. While I’d have no problem supporting a gay child, I feel very strongly about body acceptance, and I reject body dysmorphia. Transitioning to another gender is to me, not too different from a woman who wants augmentation surgeries or a man who is taking steroids. That said I could care less what anybody else does. I think cosmetic surgery and steroids should be legal. I don’t think the government needs to be involved. It’s a decision to discuss with a child, doctor, and parent.
I guess what I’m saying is, I can empathize with the transphobia of conservatives. Where we differ is in how we deal with that fear. They want the government to make society conform to their beliefs. I think it’s up to the individual parent to grow the love in their heart to accept and love whatever their child decides to be.
I feel the need to add to my feelings on this, because I don’t like admitting that I am somewhat transphobic. I strongly believe in bodily autonomy and I think 18 is too old to grant it. For tattoos, piercings, health decisions and anything else relating to oneself, I think autonomy should be granted as soon as it is claimed. In some cases of teenage pregnancy, the conception itself is a declaration of autonomy, unless the parents gave permission, which would be weird. I’m not sure a minimum age can be set. I think teenagers should be able to legally divorce (reverse adoption?) their own parents too. I recognize that this is also an extreme view that would frighten most parents. It frightens me too. But I kinda feel like picking out specific issues like trans rights or abortion is ignoring an overarching issue of parental/societal control. Not too long ago it was fairly common for husbands to view their wives as property. Many if not most parents seem to view their children as property. Maybe someday that too will change. It’s not as though 18 is some magical age of self actualization. Some people will be dependent on their parents well past that age if not forever, and some people are ready to face the world alone at 15, maybe younger.
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I understand. For each individual there’s going to be a limit to what is reasonable or even affordable to make their body work for them. Some people wear glasses while others choose contacts while others opt for lasik. Maybe it’s similar for somebody who has these feelings. Some find contentment being a feminine gay man, some are straight but want to cross dress, others want hormones, and some want more.
But understand for me that line is way more toward “au natural” than mainstream society. I don’t think women should shave body hair and I don’t like cosmetic surgery or even makeup. I think high heels and even pointed shoe aesthetics for men and women are wrong. I don’t like men who shave their face. I hate perfumes and strong scents on people. But my wife shaves her legs because she wants to and that’s fine.
I can’t really tell you how I would be because I am not. I will defend trans rights and I will defend the right to get face tattoos. But I wouldn’t want my child to get a face tattoo. But I would still love them if they did. All I’m trying to say is I understand the fear of the conservatives. And I think it’s wrong to expect the government to ease that fear by limiting options for those who want to feel comfortable being themselves.
But at the same time I don’t really want to encourage kids that they can be whatever they want, because there are some biological limits for each person and it’s worth acknowledging and accepting those limits. Some people can’t learn to sing, while for others it’s natural. Some people are clumsy while others can excel at many sports at a high level. Some people are incredibly sharp thinkers and others are better with their hands. My own personal view is that life is easier if you find your own path within your constraints. Hopefully my kid adopts my values, but maybe not. That’s okay too.
They are just propagandized. In general, it’s so much like racists - they may know trans people and just think they are the exceptions, like them as individuals and still think they hate them as a group. They are intentionally riled up by being forced fed edge cases and disinformation.
Trans people are just people. They aren’t angels who are never criminals and they aren’t degenerates who are always criminal, they are a diverse group like all of us are. But you can bet your ass that whenever a trans person does something criminal it will be blown up so big in conservative media and used to paint them all as criminals. It’s just the right wing media machine.
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People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
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It doesn’t conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
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Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
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Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Projection is also a common way for people to deflect blame for societal ills. Religious zealots will ignore and even shield sexual abusers present in their own institutions and divert that animosity to outside groups that make convenient targets. They are ok with the abusers within their walls because they are seeking absolution through religious systems. They are not ok with queer people because they need to scapegoat a group to explain why things don’t seem to be getting better.
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How to say it delicately… Many conservative/religious men really, truly want to just impale their throats on lady dick, but they are indoctrinated from birth to believe that a zombie from space (who they agree watches them shower and have sex) will be mad at them if they do what makes them happy. So to distract themselves from that always burning urge to ravenously aspirate dong nog, they performatively hate things as a hobby to pass the time until they die - profoundly alone and completely unhappy (see Lindsey Graham)
And then the conservative women are taught that they are stupid, useless furniture pieces there to look pretty and parrot - not capable of an opinion outside of the one provided by their husband or father.
🤣🤣
This is so on the nose, I love it.
As a male who quite enjoys having said orface impaled by (lady) dick. These folks need to start enjoying life instead of hating it and dragging everyone else down with them.
Ravenously asperate dong nog
Brother, your killing me here, this is epic.
I heard PregNog before, but it had me rolling.
I really hope this is sarcasm
We all see you. Isn’t enough praying in the world to make that fire in you burn out…
Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.
In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.
Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.
Meh, I don’t know if it’s strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it’s probably more “just” a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don’t like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I’m just speculating, here.
I can also see the sexual panic aspect.
That’s cuz it isn’t hierarchy, it’s tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.
Yes! Screw the patriarchy
I don’t agree. For ages in any life or death situation it is woman and children first. Men are the strongest of the bunch, any respectable man is putting his children and wife onto a lifeboat before themselves. You’d have a hard time finding a father/husband who wouldn’t.
Your little scenario explicitly presumes that the man would be the one in charge, making this decision.
Who else would be in charge of a man making the decision to let others go ahead of himself? It is a self made decision, and a selfless one. So of course he is the one making the decision. A woman could just as easily make this decision, if she did would you still be saying “well of course she did, she’s the one on charge!”. I hope not. You just don’t like the fact that when shit hits the fan, oftentimes men are the ones who step up and help others and even sacrifice themselves. Have whatever qualms you will with men, but at least give them credit where they deserve it.
You will never succeed trying to get through to the woketivists
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