• The Picard Maneuver
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    1301 year ago

    This is one scene that I wish the prequels didn’t undermine. It was cool when the Jedi were some mythological idea rather than people that everyone should’ve known from a decade or two ago.

      • Flying SquidOP
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        1 year ago

        Maybe, but after that film, it seems like everyone’s heard of the Jedi and the Force.

        • @snekerpimp@lemmy.world
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          31 year ago

          I agree with you on the bad writing, and destruction of cannon built through movie and book in the 70s and 80s. But it’s Disney’s bitch now, and will do whatever daddy Disney needs for money.

          • Flying SquidOP
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            121 year ago

            I’m probably in a minority, but I honestly think that whatever Lucas would have done for sequels would have been no better than what Disney did. I thought the prequels were god-awful and the best Star Wars movie was Empire, which was not his movie. Even Star Wars would have been nowhere near as good without Marcia Lucas’ involvement in the editing process.

            Don’t get me wrong, George Lucas had some good ideas, but he’s had a whole hell of a lot more bad ones since then.

            • @snekerpimp@lemmy.world
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              51 year ago

              Lucas was good at special effects, writing and directing were never his thing. Star Wars is only a thing because of the pioneering methods he used to make people feel like they were part of this saga, not watching an episode of lost in space. He killed it all with the rereleases, and then erasing his original films from history.

              • Flying SquidOP
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                61 year ago

                Thankfully, there are still ways to see the original films. Lots of “despecialized editions” and the like are out there. One of the most interesting are the 4K77/80/83 restorations which bring back the original film grain. It’s a little less watchable as a movie, but very interesting to see how different scenes used different film stock for different reasons, without modern color correction, etc.

                97% of project 4K77 is from a single, original 1977 35mm Technicolor release print so if it goes from blurry to sharp, grainy to not grainy, bright to dark, that’s because it also did that in 1977. Color correction was a single correction per reel – the optical audio track was used to white balance the image, and the contrast adjusted to ensure that there was no clipping of the highlights or crushing of the blacks, so if the color changes from shot to shot, or it goes from very dark inside to very bright outside, that’s how it is on the print. Film has a greater contrast range than home video, and of course was graded for viewing, reflected off of a giant silver screen.

                Star Wars was shot on four different types of film stock, some grainier than others. (Kodak 5243, an intermediate, probably for composites, 5247, a fine grain 100 EI tungsten stock that the live action must have been shot on, and 5253, an intermediate used as a separation stock that all visual effects elements were shot on, plus the CRI stock [Magid, Ron. “Saving the Star Wars Sequels,” American Cinematographer, February 1997.])

                The Effects, the music, the editing all continued right up to the last possible moment. Some scenes were shot out in the deserts of tunisia, where the sand got into everything including the film stock. Some scenes were also filmed with nylons over the lens, others were not. Scenes filmed outside, particularly in the desert, that are supposed to be only moments apart in the narrative, may actually have been filmed hours or even days apart, with the sun and clouds in constant motion and the lighting conditions changing greatly. Color correction and film printing back then was a photo-chemical process, so not all of these shots match as perfectly as they might if shot today and corrected using Davinci Resolve, watching the scopes and turning the color wheels. This also meant that no two prints would be 100% identical, and that the alignment of the Cyan, Yellow and Magenta layers of the Technicolor prints was not always perfect – which is why you can often see green or red fringing on objects in project 4K77.

                Many of the visual effects shots were created using a technique called “optical printing”. Each element of the shot (starfield, X-wing, Y-wing, Tie fighter, laser blast) would be shot separately, with the ships against a blue screen. They would be combined by projecting all the images at once onto a new piece of film, a process that often allowed additional dirt, dust and hairs to be baked into the film, softened the image, and added additional layers of grain.

                All of these factors mean that scenes filmed on set at Elstree, where Vader and Tarkin are just chatting in a room, are a heck of a lot cleaner, sharper and less grainy than those of R2D2 and C3P0 wandering about in the desert. It’s easy to forget that this is how it was for twenty years – all of these flaws can still be seen on the Betamax, VHS, CED and laserdisc releases of the 1980s.

                https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/

                Not downloadable directly, but if you don’t mind sailing the high seas or can figure out the Internet Archive’s archaic search, you can find them.

    • @Mithre@lemmy.world
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      101 year ago

      There were millions of planets in the Republic, and only about 10k Jedi at any one time. The vast majority of people would never have seen one. The vast majority of planets would probably go generations between having one visit. It is entirely believable that most wouldn’t think that Jedi were real.

      • Flying SquidOP
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        91 year ago

        You’d think a guy wouldn’t get into Vader’s inner Death Star circle if he didn’t believe in such things.

        • teft
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          71 year ago

          Sycophants and idiots are exactly who end up in leadership in dictatorships. Admiral Motti probably believed all the propaganda.

        • @mkwt@lemmy.world
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          31 year ago

          Part of the impact of that scene is that up to that point, the Death Star was not under Vader’s command, but he kind of comes in there and starts bossing everyone around anyway.

  • @brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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    541 year ago

    Imagine trying to shit on someone’s faith, then the person calls down Jesus himself to put your fingers in their nail wounds and then he makes his dad hurt you for good measure.

    Point is how’d that guy not believe in the force before that? No “parlor trick” is that good…

    • @tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
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      301 year ago

      I took it that they disagreed on the usefulness of his power. Vader said nothing compares to the force and the guy disagreed. I don’t think he was swayed into thinking the force would crush the rebellion because he, an individual, got choked.

      • @jj4211@lemmy.world
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        111 year ago

        I could see it, but even in the original trilogy, Vader was not demonstrated to ever be particularly restrained in his use of the force. He would have at least known that Vader had a habit of casually force choking to death anyone that pissed him off a little with zero repurcussions. Even if he thought that wasn’t powerful enough he would have kept his mouth shut.

      • @Grimy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Poor guy was drowning in debt and terminally ill, and this was the best way to secure his kids education.

        Now they talk of him as a fool.

    • @JamesTBagg@lemmy.world
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      151 year ago

      I know. The prequels maybe weren’t well thought out. That shit talker would have served among the Jedi and during the purge.

      • @DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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        161 year ago

        Jedi are supposed to be incredibly rare, about 10,000 in a galaxy of quadrillions. It’s perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of them (Other than the ten thousand years of historical proof of space wizards doing cool shit with physical records).

        However, Lucas hates math, so, like, a couple million clones can fight this war, right? Now this one cog actually probably did meet a Jedi because the only universe worse at reconciling feasible reality with background details is 40k.

        The EU actually did a really good job of explaining this attitude with an Imperial propaganda campaign that painted the Jedi as frauds running the Republic from the shadows, justifying both the skepticism and the purge to the citizens. RIP.

        • @JamesTBagg@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Might to be rare, but they also had a massive temple located on the capital planet, very near the political and military centers on that planet. They served as generals in the Republic Army - the Army he likely served in before it was reorganized into the Empire. He would have known of them and their exploits, if not first hand, then from news and military reporting.
          Of course the EU (which Disney wiped away) would have tried to clean up George’s short sightedness.

          • @jj4211@lemmy.world
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            91 year ago

            Or, the stories of the Jedi’s exploits faced a counter-narrative that it’s a conspiracy propaganda. QAnon Star Wars edition, and he was totally there for it.

        • @marcos@lemmy.world
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          51 year ago

          Other than the ten thousand years of historical proof of space wizards doing cool shit with physical records

          Well, there are people that believe the Earth is flat…

        • @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          41 year ago

          Reminds me of cultivators in Chinese novels. I always explain their rarity as imagine them being olympic athletes. You know they exist, you hear about them but you would probably never bump into one or if you did you would never know. (of course cultivators are such chuds that if you did bump into them they would just smite you because something something show face and cowtow)

      • @dev_null@lemmy.ml
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        71 year ago

        I don’t think he wasn’t believing in the force, he just wasn’t buying the mysticism surrounding it and didn’t think it’s such a big deal. He knew Vader is a powerful force user, but the Death Star is literally one shotting entire planets, so the force didn’t feel that significant to him in the grand scheme of things.

  • @DandomRude@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The thing that really makes him a G is that Jedis in his fictional world can actually use the force while a religious figure in the western parts of our world can’t do much besides using the force of social conformity which is not that threatening at all if you think about it.

  • @aeronmelon@lemmy.worldM
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    51 year ago

    Well, okay. But Vader was going to kill him right then and there in front of everyone. Tarkin saved his life, and only because he was annoyed by the display.

  • @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world
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    21 year ago

    Everyone seems to underestimate how much effort the empire had been putting in to hunt down remaining Jedi. Even saying the word Jedi was enough to be thrown into an interrogation cell and be subjected to who knows what kind of torture. When there’s that much fear around something it can fade into memory within a single generation.